Night Serum and Retin A

[Alps79]

I decided to start a new thread. I am more confused than ever. My skin is fairly normal, I have clogged pores on my nose and chin, small blackheads that are covered easily with makeup. I'd love for them to disappear. I'm 39 and really want to concentrate on anti-aging and keeping my skin in good condition. 
In the AM I : 
*wash with Cereve
*SkinMedica Vitamin C+E Complex
*Moisturizer (whatever I have. I haven't found a HG yet. Right now I'm using a large Drunk Elephant sample.) 
*Eye cream- SkinCeuticals A.G.E. (HG!!!!!) 
*sunscreen

PM- 
*I remove make-up with kirkland wipe
*wash face with Cereve
*most nights I follow with Retin A
*Night cream (again, no HG. Just whatever I have on hand.) 
*Eye cream

My routine is pretty good but I'm wanting to add a serum to my nighttime routine. However I'm very confused about what serum would be a good fit for my skin and it what order it would go. Before or after Retin A? I thought I had it all figured out and then I came across an article that says Retin A should be LAST, a good 20 minutes after applying other products??? That's not right, is it? 

[bowies]

I think it depends on the weight/density of the Retin A cream you’re using vs. your other products. Mine is combined with niacinamide so I think that would be a good serum to use. I would put the serum before the Retin A if it comes in a tube with an ointment/cream density and the serum is more liquid.

[MrsAxilla]

I've never heard retin a should go last. In fact, usually the advice is to follow up with a good moisturizer. Your skin is supposed to be dry when you apply retin A so it doesn't absorb too deeply into your skin. I usually wait 10 or 15 minutes after washing to put it on, then wait another 30 or so before doing my serums and such.

My favorite serum right now is Peter Thomas Roth turbo unwrinke toner (or something like that). It was actually recommended here as a dupe for the Ordinary's buffet and I love it. I would also recommend a vitamin C serum in the am. Vitamin C is awesome for anti-aging. I love Timeless.

[Alps79]

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I've never heard retin a should go last.  

Me neither... then I read this damn article by "Dr Bailey" and I started to rethink.... everything lol 

www.drbaileyskincare.com/info/blog/how-do-you-layer-skin-care-products-with-tretinoin

[Alps79]

Jul 14, 2018 18:45:10 GMT -5 bowies said:

I think it depends on the weight/density of the Retin A cream you’re using vs. your other products. Mine is combined with niacinamide so I think that would be a good serum to use. I would put the serum before the Retin A if it comes in a tube with an ointment/cream density and the serum is more liquid.

I'm using 0.025% Tretinoin but plan up up to .1% at my next refill. 

I guess I thought Retin A (tretinoin) goes on a clean, nothing on it face. But it makes sense to do a serum first (after washing) since it would be more lightweight. THEN tretinoin, then follow with night cream. Yes? 

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 14, 2018 21:15:07 GMT -5 Alps79 said:

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I've never heard retin a should go last.  

Me neither... then I read this damn article by "Dr Bailey" and I started to rethink.... everything lol 

www.drbaileyskincare.com/info/blog/how-do-you-layer-skin-care-products-with-tretinoin

Now that I think about it, I guess I do remember the advice to use moisturizer first if the retin A is too irritating. I've been using it for a decade so who remembers anymore? Lol

[Alps79]

Jul 14, 2018 21:31:53 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Jul 14, 2018 21:15:07 GMT -5 Alps79 said:

Me neither... then I read this damn article by "Dr Bailey" and I started to rethink.... everything lol 

www.drbaileyskincare.com/info/blog/how-do-you-layer-skin-care-products-with-tretinoin

Now that I think about it, I guess I do remember the advice to use moisturizer first if the retin A is too irritating. I've been using it for a decade so who remembers anymore? Lol

Ah ha. Okay well it’s not irritating to me at all so I guess I’ll KOKO. There is just so much conflicting info out there! Makes my head spin.


Still wanting a serum

[tiramisu]

What do you want the serum to do?

Also, if you want to make your blackheads disappear, if recommend adding a BHA once a day. That's the most noticeable recommendation, IMO, reading your routine, unless I somehow missed it.

[Alps79]

Jul 14, 2018 22:00:17 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

What do you want the serum to do?

Also, if you want to make your blackheads disappear, if recommend adding a BHA once a day. That's the most noticeable recommendation, IMO, reading your routine, unless I somehow missed it.

Ah yes, I use SkinMedica AHA/BHA exfoliating cleanser once a day, depending on when I shower. Is there a better way to add BHA? 

That's a damn good question about the serum... I just feel like I should add one to my routine? Anything to help with anti-aging and dull skin. I bought the GLOPro (actually my mom bought one for me and one for her;) and all reviews say to use a serum within 60 seconds of using the GLOPro... so now I'm all "I NEED A SERUM." 

[tiramisu]

Jul 14, 2018 22:17:28 GMT -5 Alps79 said:

Jul 14, 2018 22:00:17 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

What do you want the serum to do?

Also, if you want to make your blackheads disappear, if recommend adding a BHA once a day. That's the most noticeable recommendation, IMO, reading your routine, unless I somehow missed it.

Ah yes, I use SkinMedica AHA/BHA exfoliating cleanser once a day, depending on when I shower. Is there a better way to add BHA? 

That's a damn good question about the serum... I just feel like I should add one to my routine? Anything to help with anti-aging and dull skin. I bought the GLOPro (actually my mom bought one for me and one for her;) and all reviews say to use a serum within 60 seconds of using the GLOPro... so now I'm all "I NEED A SERUM." 

I would use a leave-on BHA. Paula's Choice has tons of options for them. (I use the 2% BHA lotion for my dry skin.)

As far as a serum, you could go for one with lots of antioxidants in it. If you're otherwise happy with your routine, I wouldn't add one right now though. I'm a broken record with liking Paula's Choice products, but her Resist serum has lots of anti-aging ingredients and you could get a travel size to try it out first.

[MrsAxilla]

I reread your initial post and I have thoughts and feel chatty
You need to double cleanse at night - EVERYONE should double cleanse at night! That alone will make a huge difference. You don’t need a special oild cleanser, either. There are tons and they’re all more or less effective. They only one I’ve ever hated was No. 7 from target, but your skin might disagree. A BHA will help clear out the blackheads. I’m cheap as fuck so when I learned that stridex in the red box is close to ‘perfect’ I switched and never looked back ($3.99 on sale at CVS)

I know we can help you with serums, but we need to know what result you’re looking for. Are you dry, or have discolorations, or sensitive patches, or fine lines (or all of the above -lol). In general, though, I believe every woman should double cleanse, use vitamin C, retain A and sunscreen.

But back to your original question about order of products, I always go from most to least potent. I want all that goodness right on my face and not diluted by my cheap sheet masks. So retin A first

[Alps79]

MrsAxilla, I totally appreciate your chattiness
Double cleanse- I can do that. 2 separate cleansers, right? But you're saying one doesn't need to be oil based?
Serums; I have normal to oily skin. I'm probably looking for firmness and anti-aging. I *believe* I'm getting Vic C from my SkinMedica Vitamin C+E Complex that I use in the morning. My derm rec'd it as a favorite and I'm liking what I see so far.
tiramisu, where would I add the BHA? Morning, night, or both? Or am I reading correctly that you use one that is in your daily moisturizer? My blackheads are on my nose and I have tiny clogged pores on my chin. They're both been there for as long as I can remember, however the SkinMedica wash and def helped reduce them.

[cosmowife]

Someone recently in a Paula’s choice thread said not to use acids and retinol together because it could be fine and then, bam, your skin freaks out. That happened to me - everything was fine and then all of a sudden I developed a weird itchy rash on my forehead that took a days to go away.

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 15, 2018 7:01:52 GMT -5 Alps79 said:

MrsAxilla, I totally appreciate your chattiness
Double cleanse- I can do that. 2 separate cleansers, right? But you're saying one doesn't need to be oil based?
Serums; I have normal to oily skin. I'm probably looking for firmness and anti-aging. I *believe* I'm getting Vic C from my SkinMedica Vitamin C+E Complex that I use in the morning. My derm rec'd it as a favorite and I'm liking what I see so far.
tiramisu, where would I add the BHA? Morning, night, or both? Or am I reading correctly that you use one that is in your daily moisturizer? My blackheads are on my nose and I have tiny clogged pores on my chin. They're both been there for as long as I can remember, however the SkinMedica wash and def helped reduce them.

No, the first cleanser should be oil based. Oil cleansers will dissolve all the makeup, sunscreen, pollution, etc, then your water based cleanser washes away all that dissolved gunk. I usually get mine on Amazon, but Burt's Bees is a good drugstore brand.

As for BHA, use that either in the morning, or in the evening when you don't use retinol. I wouldn't use retinol and acids in the same routine.

[tiramisu]

Jul 15, 2018 7:01:52 GMT -5 Alps79 said:

MrsAxilla, I totally appreciate your chattiness
Double cleanse- I can do that. 2 separate cleansers, right? But you're saying one doesn't need to be oil based?
Serums; I have normal to oily skin. I'm probably looking for firmness and anti-aging. I *believe* I'm getting Vic C from my SkinMedica Vitamin C+E Complex that I use in the morning. My derm rec'd it as a favorite and I'm liking what I see so far.
tiramisu, where would I add the BHA? Morning, night, or both? Or am I reading correctly that you use one that is in your daily moisturizer? My blackheads are on my nose and I have tiny clogged pores on my chin. They're both been there for as long as I can remember, however the SkinMedica wash and def helped reduce them.

I use the BHA morning and night, after cleansing and toning. I use a serum with a tiny amount of retinol and have been for years, but Retin-A is stronger. I would use the BHA when you're not using Retin-A.

To give you an idea of my product order:
Cleanse (double cleanse at night), pat on toner with my hands, BHA lotion (very lightweight), antioxidant serum + a few drops of facial oil, moisturizer (daytime with SPF, nighttime without). I did just get a vitamin C product that I use at night after my BHA and before anything else.

[SallyJ]

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I've never heard retin a should go last. In fact, usually the advice is to follow up with a good moisturizer. Your skin is supposed to be dry when you apply retin A so it doesn't absorb too deeply into your skin. I usually wait 10 or 15 minutes after washing to put it on, then wait another 30 or so before doing my serums and such.

My favorite serum right now is Peter Thomas Roth turbo unwrinke toner (or something like that). It was actually recommended here as a dupe for the Ordinary's buffet and I love it. I would also recommend a vitamin C serum in the am. Vitamin C is awesome for anti-aging. I love Timeless.

This is my HG for anti-aging serum. It replaces all of my Ordinary products.

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 19, 2018 12:50:59 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I've never heard retin a should go last. In fact, usually the advice is to follow up with a good moisturizer. Your skin is supposed to be dry when you apply retin A so it doesn't absorb too deeply into your skin. I usually wait 10 or 15 minutes after washing to put it on, then wait another 30 or so before doing my serums and such.

My favorite serum right now is Peter Thomas Roth turbo unwrinke toner (or something like that). It was actually recommended here as a dupe for the Ordinary's buffet and I love it. I would also recommend a vitamin C serum in the am. Vitamin C is awesome for anti-aging. I love Timeless.

This is my HG for anti-aging serum. It replaces all of my Ordinary products.

Yep! It's so much cheaper and I love the velvety texture and gold shimmer - lol.

[Alps79]

More dumb questions

I'm using this in the AM. I really like it. Is it a serum? It kind of feels like one but maybe not? www.skinmedica.com/products/protect/vitamincecomplex
I put it on right after washing my face. Should I do a serum before? After? Or is this a serum? 

If I'm using Retin A at night, use a serum after? Then moisturizer? 

[secretlyevil]

Jul 19, 2018 12:54:45 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Jul 19, 2018 12:50:59 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

This is my HG for anti-aging serum. It replaces all of my Ordinary products.

Yep! It's so much cheaper and I love the velvety texture and gold shimmer - lol.

I’m going to try this on y’alls recommendation. Score, Sephora is 8% on ebates and I got a sample of DE and a perversion mascara mini. Nice little haul.

[secretlyevil]

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I would also recommend a vitamin C serum in the am. Vitamin C is awesome for anti-aging.

I've been doing Vitamin C at night...does it matter?

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 19, 2018 14:22:54 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

Jul 14, 2018 19:11:16 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I would also recommend a vitamin C serum in the am. Vitamin C is awesome for anti-aging.

I've been doing Vitamin C at night...does it matter?

Not really. I do other actives at night and also have a couple of things that don't play nicely with vitamin C, so the morning works best for me.

[secretlyevil]

Jul 19, 2018 14:43:07 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Jul 19, 2018 14:22:54 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

I've been doing Vitamin C at night...does it matter?

Not really. I do other actives at night and also have a couple of things that don't play nicely with vitamin C, so the morning works best for me.

That makes sense. It's the only active I currently use. I randomly do it twice a day and my Googling just told me that isn't a bad idea (again as the only active).

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 19, 2018 14:46:26 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

Jul 19, 2018 14:43:07 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Not really. I do other actives at night and also have a couple of things that don't play nicely with vitamin C, so the morning works best for me.

That makes sense. It's the only active I currently use. I randomly do it twice a day and my Googling just told me that isn't a bad idea (again as the only active).

I read somewhere that Vitamin C has a long half-life, so you only need to use it once a day.