@/Dear Prudence letter

[druidp]

I think I'd need more clarification of "touch and play." Agree that if it was treating it like any other body part - elbows, armpits for tickling, etc, I'm not hopping on a predator band wagon.

If it was, "Come over here, honey, let me take my bra off and let you massage me for a few minutes..." then EWWWW.

[laurenpetro]

May 18, 2012 10:20:07 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

I don't think it was sexual either. If the kids didn't know about sex, how could it be considered sexual? Was the mom doing it to get sexual pleasure, or was it just like hey my boobs are another body part like an elbow and you touch that?

it could absolutely be sexual for the adult without the child knowing it.

i'm leaning towards inappropriate. if there is no nursing going on, there is no point to the breast-play for the child. i'm sorry, there just isn't. it's purely gratuitious on the part of the adult.

[pixy0stix]

Yeaaaah, I'd need to know what the touch and play consisted of.

[ttt]

May 18, 2012 10:26:31 GMT -5 druidp said:

I think I'd need more clarification of "touch and play." Agree that if it was treating it like any other body part - elbows, armpits for tickling, etc, I'm not hopping on a predator band wagon.

If it was, "Come over here, honey, let me take my bra off and let you massage me for a few minutes..." then EWWWW.

Yeah, exactly. I need to know what kind of touching she's talking about.

I agree that it's weird and inappropriate, but it may not be sexual at all. Or it may be - it's hard to tell from this description. And is it the kind of thing where the kids want to do it and mom lets them? Or is mom actively encouraging them to come over and cop a feel? Either way, if mom is getting some sort of sexual pleasure from it then yes, a call to CPS is definitely warranted. But if it's something the kids do - like they stick their hand in mom's shirt for comfort - and mom just tolerates it, ehhh I don't know. Still weird and inappropriate, but not "take those kids away" worthy, IMO.

[chichimi]

I think that if it was enough for an 18yo boy to remember and feel revulsed, that she was acting inappropriately but I am very sensitive to parents crossing the line. He can also see what's going on with his younger sister and I trust his judgement that it is more than what is acceptable.

[Deleted]

I think it would be best for this kid to talk to his doctor and/or a therapist and sort out exactly what the deal is here. Then proceed to CPS if necessary.

However, I am inclined to think that playing with your mom's breasts long past when nursing is over is probably sexual in nature even if that was never imparted on the kid. Although, obviously it was though he didn't realize it at the time. Also, I'm not on board with the idea that just because it didn't seem sexual to the child it wasn't.

[imoan]

May 18, 2012 10:20:07 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

I don't think it was sexual either. If the kids didn't know about sex, how could it be considered sexual?

My face is something to behold at reading this little gem. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

[Deleted]

You don't have to know what sex is to be molested. You also don't actually have to be having sex to be molested either. And being the "giver" as it were doesn't mean you aren't being molested either.

[beebeeeater]

No way. Fondling your mom's breasts IS NOT THE SAME as touching your mom's elbow, even if the kid doesn't get that. what the fuck is wrong with you?

[Deleted]

No, see that's not cool, MW.

When I was I think 4 or so, I had a babysitter who copped a boner when I sat on his lap and later showed me his penis when I asked. I had no idea it was sexual at the time and didn't figure it out until I was sixteen or so.

GUess what? It was still sexually motivated, fucked up, and wrong.

[starlily]

May 18, 2012 10:43:15 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

I mean the kids werent sexually motivated at the time to engage in boob play. Only now do they know about the sexual role of boobs are they uncomfortable.

Like pps said, it could go either way if it was sexual or not, but I would like to give the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter if it was sexual for the kids, the question is if the mom was encouraging the behavior for her own arousal.

[marie427]

Totally inappropriate. I am squicked out by this. The fact that the letter-writer feels disgust about it as an adult now says enough to me that even if they didn't understand what was going on as a child, they are realizing that this is not something they should have been subjected to as a child.

This writer needs to talk to a therapist first and spell out exactly what happened and is happening. The therapist could bring CPS into the mix if he/she believes that a crime was committed or is being committed, right?

[dvmmama]

I think it's interesting almost everyone thinks the writer is an 18y/o boy. I was reading it from the perspective of a teenage girl. It doesn't say either way but I thought that was interesting.

I don't know that CPS needs involved immediately and I would need more clarification on what the touching/playing was and who instigated it but I would lean towards it being an inappropriate exchange.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2012 10:47:08 GMT -5 marie427 said:

This writer needs to talk to a therapist first and spell out exactly what happened and is happening. The therapist could bring CPS into the mix if he/she believes that a crime was committed or is being committed, right?

Yup.

[imoan]

Why does the motivation of the kids even come into play? Only one party needs to be sexually motivated for it to be sexual.

Your daughter doesn't look like she's at an age where she knows what sex is. But if some family member or babysitter or something did something to her sexual organs... would you REALLY not consider it sexual and prosecute as such?!

[lilmgirl]

I think I had an idea what the letter writer is saying. My mom BF my brother, but it wasn't extended to my recollection. But when he was done BFing, he'd still cuddle up in my mom's chair with her and stick his hand down her shirt up until he was about 4-5 years old. I don't know what he was doing under there, if he was actually fondling something or just resting his hand there. I never asked, but it made me feel weird and I was always embarrassed when I had friends over and he would do that. Eventually it stopped but I don't know how and I never asked my mom about it because it still kinda weirds me out.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2012 10:49:26 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

What if the mom wasn't sexually motivated at all? Isn't that what we are tying to gauge to label this abuse or not?

The actions can be inappropriate regardless of intent.

[msmerymac]

May 18, 2012 10:32:42 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I think that if it was enough for an 18yo boy to remember and feel revulsed, that she was acting inappropriately but I am very sensitive to parents crossing the line. He can also see what's going on with his younger sister and I trust his judgement that it is more than what is acceptable.

I agree.

I also think there's a huge, huge difference between normalizing body parts and sexual organs (like being comfortable with nudity or the changes you go through in puberty) and being really inappropriate. In the real world, touching your elbow (or someone else's) is NOT the same as fondling breasts. If someone you don't know well comes up and touches you on the shoulder, it is NOT the same as them touching you on your breast. That's a really necessary difference for kids to learn.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2012 10:47:08 GMT -5 marie427 said:

Totally inappropriate. I am squicked out by this. The fact that the letter-writer feels disgust about it as an adult now says enough to me that even if they didn't understand what was going on as a child, they are realizing that this is not something they should have been subjected to as a child.

This writer needs to talk to a therapist first and spell out exactly what happened and is happening. The therapist could bring CPS into the mix if he/she believes that a crime was committed or is being committed, right?

Actually the standard of reporting isn't even that high, the therapist just has to suspect child abuse or neglect, not necessarily a crime. But yeah, this is wrong. I think its one thing to have been extended BFed and to still want to cuddle after weaning like someone above described and another thing to be playing with her breasts beyond that. Even if the mom doesn't have sexual intent, at some point, the mom needs to have a discussion about boundaries and what is appropriate and what isn't.

[imoan]

May 18, 2012 10:49:38 GMT -5 dvmmama said:

I think it's interesting almost everyone thinks the writer is an 18y/o boy. I was reading it from the perspective of a teenage girl. It doesn't say either way but I thought that was interesting.

I read it as being from a girl as well.

[beebeeeater]

May 18, 2012 10:54:10 GMT -5 imoan said:

May 18, 2012 10:49:38 GMT -5 dvmmama said:

I think it's interesting almost everyone thinks the writer is an 18y/o boy. I was reading it from the perspective of a teenage girl. It doesn't say either way but I thought that was interesting.

I read it as being from a girl as well.

Me too.

[Melissa W.]

May 18, 2012 10:49:38 GMT -5 dvmmama said:

I think it's interesting almost everyone thinks the writer is an 18y/o boy. I was reading it from the perspective of a teenage girl. It doesn't say either way but I thought that was interesting.

I don't know that CPS needs involved immediately and I would need more clarification on what the touching/playing was and who instigated it but I would lean towards it being an inappropriate exchange.

I agree with you and had the same though about the narrator.

[Deleted]

I did think it was a girl but other people said boy and I figured I'd read wrong.

But I'm biased because I know what it's like to suddenly come to the realization that things you never gave any though to a a child were not normal and in fact pretty damned squicky.

[EloiseWeenie]

The mom needs therapy. She obviously is extremely needy and using her kids to make her feel needed. I think it's gross in many ways- and I hope it isn't sexual on her end, but who knows?

My 3 year old sees me nurse my baby all the time. He's curious, and has asked once if I would feed him that way, and I told him it's only for babies, and that soon his sister won't need to bf anymore. Every now and then he'll try to stick his hand down my shirt, and I tell him it's not polite to do that, while I remove his hand (he isn't trying to touch anything- I think he thinks it's like a pocket).

[Daria Morgandorffer]

That's just creepy. And why the hell would you WANT your 8-9 yr olds all up in your boobage unless you're a creeper? I was stoked to get those back into my possession when I weaned DD at a year .

[copzgirl1171]

For an adult boobs have two purposes.
Feeding a kid or sexual. Or sometimes sexually feeding an adult *shiver*

I have zero idea why this lady would be encouraging this behavior, it serves no "life lesson" purpose at all.

[ttt]

May 18, 2012 10:47:08 GMT -5 starlily said:

May 18, 2012 10:43:15 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

I mean the kids werent sexually motivated at the time to engage in boob play. Only now do they know about the sexual role of boobs are they uncomfortable.

Like pps said, it could go either way if it was sexual or not, but I would like to give the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter if it was sexual for the kids, the question is if the mom was encouraging the behavior for her own arousal.

Exactly, and that's - I think - what the whole legal standard behind molestation is, whether the action is done with the intent to arouse the adult (or something like that).

At best, it's very weird and very inappropriate and the mom is failing to teach her children about boundaries and appropriate touching. There is no reason that 8 year olds should be touching mom's breasts.

At worst, it's sexual abuse.

I agree with whoever said that the LW (I read it as female too, but I guess it could be male) should see a therapist ASAP.

[caden]

I really can't imagine an appropriate scenario for a 9+ year old to be "playing" in any way with his mother's naked breasts.

[ringstrue]

Are we missing that the younger sibling in question is NINE?? Not 2 - not 4. It's not wayward exploratory feeling. I get the feeling that something effed up is going on there, and that the mother is encouraging it in some way.

Kids know about boobs way before NINE years old and find them "funny" and would know that touching them more than just a "bump" or because you are hugging the person is odd.

[hubes]

I think, as parents, we should try to do as much as possible to not scar our kids. Letting our nine-year-old fondle our breasts is completely inaapropriate, whether it is sexual or not.