The more dems scream treason, the more riled up his base becomes. And a more riled up group of angry, middle aged white people is not what the States needs right now.
Meh, I don’t think we should be moderating our behavior to try to keep the MAGAts in check. Because that’s a game we will lose.
Because I always bring it back to Crooked Media (LOL), when Favs did his focus groups in Michigan, he found that the mythical Obama/Trump voters do exist and that each one he talked to regretted their vote for Trump. They basically all just hated Hillary enough to vote for him. There are all sorts of reasons why that may be (cough cough MISOGYNY cough cough), but the fact is that his base of die-hard MAGA folks isn’t going anywhere. But he didn’t win with just die-hard MAGA folks. He also won with reluctant voters and because people stayed home/voted third party. Now, we can get into why people were willing to overlook ALLLL OF THIS and reluctantly vote for him, but the fact is that there are people who voted for him who won’t vote for him again.
That’s a really long way of saying that ESF is totally right. His true base is a lost cause. Fuck them. They are ungettable by the Dems. But people who stayed home, voted third party, or disliked Trump but voted for him because there was “just something about” Hillary they didn’t like ARE gettable. And those are the people we need to motivate to vote by, in part, yelling from the rooftops about what a treasonous sack of shit Trump is.
Here’s the thing...45 will have an asterisk behind his name forever as far as I’m concerned.
This election more than any other, including W’s, hammers home for me the need to do away with the electoral college.
I actually don’t mind the electoral college as envisioned. I think the problem is the arbitrary limit on the number of reps for each state (it’s based on the number of actual seats in the House from what I understand) where the weight of those votes become more and more pronounced as populations shift. If we had a more proportional representation which then corresponded with number of electoral votes, I think it’d be fine. I haven’t done the math but I suspect if there wasn’t a 435 cap, we’d be able to have more equitable proportions where there wouldn’t be such disparity in what a vote is worth in Wyoming vs California. Also the 435 cap is just a law not in the constitution.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 19, 2018 10:03:54 GMT -5
Seriously, Trump supporters are already angry, middle-aged white people so I'm not going to watch my words to placate them. And I am usually someone who is hyperaware of semantics and how powerful particular words can be and therefore treads lightly to make sure the words I'm using aren't hyperbole. I give no shits about people using the word "treason" though, because it's certainly at least debatable given alllll that we know about Trump being a Putin puppet. Let's call shit out.
Meh, I don’t think we should be moderating our behavior to try to keep the MAGAts in check. Because that’s a game we will lose.
Because I always bring it back to Crooked Media (LOL), when Favs did his focus groups in Michigan, he found that the mythical Obama/Trump voters do exist and that each one he talked to regretted their vote for Trump. They basically all just hated Hillary enough to vote for him. There are all sorts of reasons why that may be (cough cough MISOGYNY cough cough), but the fact is that his base of die-hard MAGA folks isn’t going anywhere. But he didn’t win with just die-hard MAGA folks. He also won with reluctant voters and because people stayed home/voted third party. Now, we can get into why people were willing to overlook ALLLL OF THIS and reluctantly vote for him, but the fact is that there are people who voted for him who won’t vote for him again.
That’s a really long way of saying that ESF is totally right. His true base is a lost cause. Fuck them. They are ungettable by the Dems. But people who stayed home, voted third party, or disliked Trump but voted for him because there was “just something about” Hillary they didn’t like ARE gettable. And those are the people we need to motivate to vote by, in part, yelling from the rooftops about what a treasonous sack of shit Trump is.
I agree with you and ESF. I think we need to stop worrying about looking like we are overreacting and just call things what they are. I don't think that means we need to go around screaming treason and impeachment at the top of our lungs, if we don't think it was treason or don't think we are going to impeach (I don't know the answer to either of those), but I think Dems need to (and the media should as well) stop using "soft" terms - Russia interfered with our election, for example. No. Russia attacked our elections.
And like you said, there are a lot of people out there who voted for Trump who are not happy now. I feel like we assume every Trump voter was part of his diehard MAGA base, and that's just not true. A lot of his voters were part of the Republican base, and party lines are hard to cross these days, but not impossible. I'm not saying we need to go all Hillbilly Elegy and try to figure out how to convince the MAGA-hat-wearing diehard gun rights/anti immigration/"white working class" man in a deep red state to vote for a democrat.
But we can get some of the people who didn't like trump but voted reluctantly, and they may be more willing to vote Dem if they see we have some type of backbone. Showing backbone may also help us get some of the independent voters, may help get those who stayed home in 2016 to vote, may get some of the third party voters back, etc.
Here’s the thing...45 will have an asterisk behind his name forever as far as I’m concerned.
This election more than any other, including W’s, hammers home for me the need to do away with the electoral college.
I actually don’t mind the electoral college as envisioned. I think the problem is the arbitrary limit on the number of reps for each state (it’s based on the number of actual seats in the House from what I understand) where the weight of those votes become more and more pronounced as populations shift. If we had a more proportional representation which then corresponded with number of electoral votes, I think it’d be fine. I haven’t done the math but I suspect if there wasn’t a 435 cap, we’d be able to have more equitable proportions where there wouldn’t be such disparity in what a vote is worth in Wyoming vs California. Also the 435 cap is just a law not in the constitution.
It's 535. Its based on the numbers of representatives and senators (so not totally arbitrary.) But the issue is that since every state gets two senators, regardless of population, then some states get more power in the EC - like the Wyoming example.
As long as Rs control the state houses and congress, nothing will ever happen that would shift the electoral college towards being more proportional, since that will benefit Dems.
I actually don’t mind the electoral college as envisioned. I think the problem is the arbitrary limit on the number of reps for each state (it’s based on the number of actual seats in the House from what I understand) where the weight of those votes become more and more pronounced as populations shift. If we had a more proportional representation which then corresponded with number of electoral votes, I think it’d be fine. I haven’t done the math but I suspect if there wasn’t a 435 cap, we’d be able to have more equitable proportions where there wouldn’t be such disparity in what a vote is worth in Wyoming vs California. Also the 435 cap is just a law not in the constitution.
It's 535. Its based on the numbers of representatives and senators (so not totally arbitrary.) But the issue is that since every state gets two senators, regardless of population, then some states get more power in the EC - like the Wyoming example.
As long as Rs control the state houses and congress, nothing will ever happen that would shift the electoral college towards being more proportional, since that will benefit Dems.
No I mean specific to the House. The 100 senators is fine and as intended. I’m saying that the balance has shifted too far to one side and some of it is due to the 435 cap on the House. Each state gets two electoral votes to help balance interests and still have a say, but it’s the House rep/vote for smaller states tied to the 435 cap that makes it too unbalanced. That’s the role of the 2 per senator vote in the constitution plus getting at least one house rep/vote. Without the 435 cap, the one extra Wyoming vote (for example) wouldn’t create as much of a disparity with more populous states. It’s all proportional but if you start with 1 and have a cap it automatically makes that 1 worth way more.
My point is the House cap has shifted the disparity too much when there are already built in balances for smaller, less populous areas.
My other suggestion if you keep the cap is to not tie the representative to one state but to geographical areas of x number of people and each state gets their population’s portion of the vote because sometimes geographical areas have more in common with each other than a state. But that would never ever happen lol. I’m just spitballing ideas that might fix the current disparity without tossing it all out because I think the bones are good.
Despite numerous controversies swirling around his administration, two ongoing investigations of his campaign’s contacts with Russia and his possible obstruction of the federal probe, President Trump says he’s already dreaming about a potential Democratic opponent in the 2020 presidential election: former Vice President Joe Biden.
“I dream about Biden,” Trump told CBS News in an interview that aired Thursday morning. “That’s a dream. Look, Joe Biden ran three times. He never got more than 1 percent, and President Obama took him out of the garbage heap and everybody was shocked that he did. I’d love to have it be Biden.”
This line in his twitter is scary as hell: "The Summit with Russia was a great success, except with the real enemy of the people, the Fake News Media." That's some straight outta Animal Farm shit.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
President Trump on Wednesday lent his support to a Republican Georgia gubernatorial candidate who has cast himself in Trump’s image: self-proclaimed “politically incorrect conservative” Secretary of State Brian Kemp.
Just days before Tuesday’s primary runoff, Trump fired off a tweet backing Kemp over his more staid opponent, Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle.
“Brian is tough on crime, strong on the border and illegal immigration,” Trump said. “He loves our Military and our Vets and protects our Second Amendment. I give him my full and total endorsement.”
DHS Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen just bafflingly doubled down on her assertion that Russia's 2016 interference wasn't to help Trump: "I haven’t seen any evidence that the attempts to interfere in our election infrastructure was to favor a particular political party."
President Trump on Wednesday lent his support to a Republican Georgia gubernatorial candidate who has cast himself in Trump’s image: self-proclaimed “politically incorrect conservative” Secretary of State Brian Kemp.
Just days before Tuesday’s primary runoff, Trump fired off a tweet backing Kemp over his more staid opponent, Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle.
“Brian is tough on crime, strong on the border and illegal immigration,” Trump said. “He loves our Military and our Vets and protects our Second Amendment. I give him my full and total endorsement.”
Brian Kemp is the candidate who says in a campaign commercial: “I've got a big truck. Just in case I need to round up criminal illegals and take ‘em home myself.“
This line in his twitter is scary as hell: "The Summit with Russia was a great success, except with the real enemy of the people, the Fake News Media." That's some straight outta Animal Farm shit.
I agree. But I do think that "enemy of the people" language scares off reasonable Republicans and Independents. So let him say that stuff all he wants. Only the MAGAts go for it.
On the flip side, while I'm guessing Trump has committed treason, I feel like the Democrats have said their piece and now it's time to move on. I think Republicans have been successful in labeling Democratic leadership as out to get Trump, with no real agenda of their own. Democrats need to explain to less-informed but open minded non-voters what we have to offer. I feel like all we hear from national leadership is: this is terrible, that is terrible. It drowns out the good stuff we want people to hear about the Democratic platform. By contrast, in Maine, Jared Golden has a real shot of beating the horrid R Bruce Poliquin in the 2nd district because he stays on message and is positive.
I just hope so hard that 2018 and 2020 bring out the masses to vote, against the bigoted, racist, horrible people that make up a good portion of this country.
“I dream about Biden,” Trump told CBS News in an interview that aired Thursday morning. “That’s a dream. Look, Joe Biden ran three times. He never got more than 1 percent, and President Obama took him out of the garbage heap and everybody was shocked that he did. I’d love to have it be Biden.”
Our intelligence community has said that Russia continues to try to interfere in our election and he denies it. This is an attack and he refuses to fight back. To me, that is treason. If they were rolling in with tanks and Trump said that's just fine and doesn't do anything about it, we would call that treason. I fail to see how this is any different.
President Trump on Wednesday lent his support to a Republican Georgia gubernatorial candidate who has cast himself in Trump’s image: self-proclaimed “politically incorrect conservative” Secretary of State Brian Kemp.
Just days before Tuesday’s primary runoff, Trump fired off a tweet backing Kemp over his more staid opponent, Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle.
“Brian is tough on crime, strong on the border and illegal immigration,” Trump said. “He loves our Military and our Vets and protects our Second Amendment. I give him my full and total endorsement.”
Well of course. GA was a targeted state for election tampering, and Kemp as SOS turned a blind eye to a LOT of shit. Kislyack was at Kennesaw state in April 2016 which is where our election equipment is stored. After a lawsuit regarding irregularities, he had all of the hard drives wiped before they could be tuned over for evidence. There is so much.... Let’s not even talk about the voter suppression and “lost” voter registration forms.
Our intelligence community has said that Russia continues to try to interfere in our election and he denies it. This is an attack and he refuses to fight back. To me, that is treason. If they were rolling in with tanks and Trump said that's just fine and doesn't do anything about it, we would call that treason. I fail to see how this is any different.
I agree. War doesn't look the same now as it did 100 years ago. He is literally refusing to do anything while the entirety of our intelligence community is in agreement that these attacks on our democracy have and will continue through this year's election. Feels treasonous to me (based on the definition of the word).
When asked about Trump's comment that there were "fine people on both sides" in Charlottesville, Sec. Nielsen seemingly doubled down. "it's not that one side was right and one side was wrong"
DHS Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen just bafflingly doubled down on her assertion that Russia's 2016 interference wasn't to help Trump: "I haven’t seen any evidence that the attempts to interfere in our election infrastructure was to favor a particular political party."
This is unbelievable and she should not have her job!
DHS Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen just bafflingly doubled down on her assertion that Russia's 2016 interference wasn't to help Trump: "I haven’t seen any evidence that the attempts to interfere in our election infrastructure was to favor a particular political party."
In my spare time I like to interfere with election infrastructure for shits and giggles. What, no one else has this hobby?
Over and over again I had to listen to service members tell me that if they’d done what Secretary Clinton did, they’d be in jail (while ignoring that Secretary Powell did the same). And that she was a traitor.
God damnit yes this is god damn treason.
They'd also be in jail if they were palling around with the Russian government so hopefully at least some of them see that as a bigger crime than e-mails.