Saying Trump committed treason in Helsinki goes too far for some leading Democrats, who are worried about sending the wrong message during an election year, AP's Laurie Kellman writes:
"A debate has raged in Democratic circles this week over how strongly to condemn Trump's comments."
"The legal definition of treason is providing 'aid and comfort' to enemies of the U.S., a high crime."
Why it matters: "If Democrats align behind the term, it raises the question of what they plan to do about it. The party ... doesn't have an answer."
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I think 100% he has aided Russia in creating mass confusion among the public and weakening our democracy as well as tried to assist them with things like sanctions, NATO/EU relations, etc. And given that Russia has declared cyber-war on the US & meddled in our election, I think we can safely classify them as an enemy, Putin specifically.
Yes. He’s a traitorous piece of shit. I don’t care if it’s said or not though. I think people recoil from the idea the president committed treason, and will subconsciously reject that idea for their own sanity. So I can see the argument for political fallout.
Basically I see pros and cons with calling it out.
I just think the Dems need to be yelling from the highest hills. I'm not surprised that 45 was told about meddling. He is potus. I remember last year there were reports that 45 didn't want Russia stuff mentioned in his daily briefings because it would piss him off. I would not be surprised if the IC holds back info from him especially after this summit. Brennan said a few days ago on MJ that not everything was shared with Obama because it wasn't necessary.
2 hours alone with Putin complementing him and playing mind games. Can you just fucking imagine all the shit 45 shared with him.
That Time cover is disturbing but kind of mesmerizing at the same time.
I am not sure if Trump's comments were treason. I do think there was a lot more said that we don't know about that could be closer to treason (and I think offering a former ambassador to Russia for questioning is pretty close to treason). I'm not sure what the answer is. Like eclaires said, I think there's some mental pushback because I think even people who hate Trump are almost scared to admit that he is actively aiding and abetting the enemy. It's why there is so much talk of how he doesn't know what he is doing, he's incompetent, he's inexperienced, etc.
Because the idea that he DOES know what he's doing is a lot more terrifying.
I think the treason argument is the same thing. People - even anti trumpers - are saying how he just wants Putin to like him, he's obsessed with his electoral college victory so he needs to "protect" that, etc - and I think that's in part because most Americans don't "actually" want to believe that their president would "actually" side with Putin over the intelligence community. It was just because he's weak/inexperienced/putin manipulated him or whatever.
Yes, I do think he has and continues to commit treason. Everyone should be screaming it as loudly as possible unless they really want to live in an authoritarian fascist country.
Yes. He’s a traitorous piece of shit. I don’t care if it’s said or not though. I think people recoil from the idea the president committed treason, and will subconsciously reject that idea for their own sanity. So I can see the argument for political fallout.
Basically I see pros and cons with calling it out.
Agreed. Although I can’t get over the hypocrisy that, after Trump said not applauding his state of the union speech was treason, the R’s are acting like what he did in Helsinki is NBD and anyone calling it treason is hysterical.
I am still aghast that he is considering letting Russians interview McFaul. He may think he cleaned up his “would/wouldn’t error” (he didn’t), but I think this is just as concerning, if not more so. The POTUS should protect the citizens of the US. That it wasn’t an immediate and strong “No, absolutely not” is terrifying.
Also we all know that 45 can't sit still or in a meeting for more than 5 minutes without losing patience or his attention span. Putin sat there and made it so comfortable that 45 hung out for 2 full hours.
Putin, speaking to Russian diplomats from around the world assembled in Moscow, said on Thursday the Helsinki summit had been successful.
“It was successful overall and led to some useful agreements. Of course, let’s see how events will develop further,” he said, without disclosing the nature of the agreements he referred to.
However, Putin said “powerful” U.S. forces were trying to sabotage what the summit had achieved.
“We see that there are forces in the United States that are prepared to casually sacrifice Russian-U.S. relations, to sacrifice them for their ambitions in an internal political battle in the United States.”
Those same forces appeared ready to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs and hurt U.S. business and security while waging their divisive political battle, Putin said.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jul 19, 2018 8:27:55 GMT -5
I think that it is now confirmed that Russia meddled in our election and Trump is obsessed with saying and working to prove it was clean when it was not. There is a strong chance that someone, or people close to him were messing around with Russians in various capacities and i think its likely that Trump is compromised in some way.
I think the Democrats yelling that its treason is misdiection that distracts from some true things they could nail him on. Treason is so specific and its being thrown around to shock right now. i think he...stood up for Russia. RUSSIA, instead of his own country and that really disturbs me and grosses me out. I also am really concerned about what he said in the private meeting.
Yes. He’s a traitorous piece of shit. I don’t care if it’s said or not though. I think people recoil from the idea the president committed treason, and will subconsciously reject that idea for their own sanity. So I can see the argument for political fallout.
Basically I see pros and cons with calling it out.
Yup. It's true... whether it's effective depends on what the goal is. Riling up the Democratic base? Sure. But it's not an effective message for moderates and Republicans so YMMV.
According to the retired lawyer who talked with my group yesterday evening, no, he has not, because treason is strictly defined in the Constitution and "enemies" tends to mean countries against whom we have declared war.
Doesn't mean he's not an anti-American piece of shit, though.
According to the retired lawyer who talked with my group yesterday evening, no, he has not, because treason is strictly defined in the Constitution and "enemies" tends to mean countries against whom we have declared war.
Doesn't mean he's not an anti-American piece of shit, though.
The problem with this is that war in 2018 is decidedly different than war in 1787. Our intelligence community has repeatedly said that Russia interfered with our elections at the direction of Vladimir Putin. We need to get with the times and start realizing that the battles going forward are decidedly different than the ones we are used to and start fighting those wars.
He’s not a patriot that’s for damn sure and if I see any more bullshit about people kneeling for the anthem being unAmerican or unpatriotic or disrespectful, I am going to fucking explode.
He’s cozying up to one of our greatest, if not our greatest, enemies. A lot of wars post WWII have been proxy wars with Russia. Hell, Syria currently is to my understanding or might as well be. If that isn’t disrespectful to the sacrifice our military men and women have made I don’t know what is.
Just bullshit but not surprising. That independent number though is promising. The only reason he did a cbs interview is because he is worried about his numbers outside of R. Otherwise he’d stick to state media.
Treason may not be the most precise term, but I’m just done with weak words like “collude” and “meddle.” Call it treason or don’t but stop with the soft language. This was an attack, an act of war, a conspiracy, an criminal racketeering organization, whatever. IDGAF but Dems need to stop with vocabulary that suggests this was just some casual effort.
Also these people acting brand new over whether Putin *might* have something on Trump? JHC where the fuck have you been?
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jul 19, 2018 9:09:13 GMT -5
The more dems scream treason, the more riled up his base becomes. And a more riled up group of angry, middle aged white people is not what the States needs right now.
Post by dancingirl21 on Jul 19, 2018 9:43:16 GMT -5
That Time cover is freaky...and also accurate, in that they are "one person" and on the same side.
I feel so much hate and rage over this whole thing, which is a pretty common theme this entire presidency. The audacity of the GOP to do NOTHING about any of the horrible things 45 has said and done, and to occasionally post a "reprimanding" tweet, that they don't actually mean. The hoards of people who still defend 45 and his administration, while saying that they don't trust the FBI and other intelligence agencies. The people who think he's doing a great job. The hate on the "fake news media". It's all so enraging.
I just hope so hard that 2018 and 2020 bring out the masses to vote, against the bigoted, racist, horrible people that make up a good portion of this country.
I'm feeling very dejected and down about it all today apparently.
The more dems scream treason, the more riled up his base becomes. And a more riled up group of angry, middle aged white people is not what the States needs right now.
Meh, I don’t think we should be moderating our behavior to try to keep the MAGAts in check. Because that’s a game we will lose.