No Wills w/ Update pg 1

[livinitup]

I am about to see my parents for a fun get-away weekend in the mountains. A few months ago, I promised myself to stop getting angry that they do not have wills or any paperwork that details their finances. I was just too angry and it wasn’t helping them get it done ... so really no point. I resigned myself.

They are in their early 70’s, good health. But seriously !

How do I continue to NOT ask ?? It’s really very stressful. And my sister is no help either. She just avoids it and pretends “It will be fine. We will check their mail for bills!”

[lovelyshoes]

I’m not getting this question. Is your plan to kill them on this visit?
You’re all adults, ask them if it bothers you.

[nsl]

Buy them a consultation with an estate planning attorney for Christmas?

[thelurkylulu]

Is it possible that they do have these documents and just don’t want you to see them until they’ve passed? My grandparents were that way. It was more of a privacy thing to them. I understand your frustration but there really isn’t anything you can do.

I think it’s more important that your parents both know what their finances, life insurance policies, etc. are. It’s highly unlikely they will both pass at the same time and the surviving spouse should know those things, not necessarily the children.

[VillainV]

I’ve been gently nagging my parents for DECADES to get their affairs in order and have wills drawn up, and they agree that it’s a good idea, but haven’t done it. I’ve told them that it scares me to think about cleaning up their affairs if both of them should pass — it would be a nightmare and too much stress on my sister and I. Still nothing. I probably bring it up a few times a year (2?), but I’ve pretty much resigned myself that I can’t make them do something they don’t want to do.

[livinitup]

lovelyshoes Yes, I have asked many times. For about ten years. Always a response of “yes, some day”. About 6 months ago, I had to face that my increasing anger on the issue was only damaging our relationship. But my mother had a health scare and my feeling have resurfaced. So, I am trying figure it out for the weekend visit.

[melmel48]

I am dealing with the same thing with my parents. I feel like I am the only responsible one between the three of us. It is not easy for me to talk to them about it, but I recognize the importance of having this stuff done. Finally my mom flat out told me they are refusing to have anything handled and that I will just have to deal with it.

It upsets me greatly and I think it is very selfish of them. I am an only child FWIW... so I will be dealing with their shit all by myself.

[letsgetweird]

A rule of thumb for this type of conversantion: is what I'm saying creating distance or closeness in our relationship?

But you can also put that back on them. If they don't have a will, could they potentially be creating distance or closeness between you and your sister?

[shortstax]

Is it your problem to solve?*




*thats what I try to tell myself. I’m in the same situation. My parents have no will, no medical directives, are in debt with no budget—all despite an Alzheimer’s diagnosis as well.

I’ve given them all the tools, coaching, and mild guilt trips I can. I’ve given tough love. But really, it’s up to them until it’s too late. Which is infuriating, so I get you.

[ohgillian]

In reality, by not drawing up wills or any estate planning documents, what they are saying is “we are content to leave this as a mess for you to clean up.” W/r/t a similar situation with my mom, whenever I want to ask, I remind myself that she’s already made a decision and that’s what it is. Asking her isn’t going to change that.

[flex]

Take it from someone who was married to a man who did not have a will, your parents don't want to have to go through probate if one of them dies first, or if your parents kick the bucket at the same time, you do NOT want to have to go through probate court yourself. It will cost the survivors money to do that, so they might as well pay the money NOW to have wills and/or living trusts drawn up.

[auntie]

I have been living this for the last 2+ years.

Parents in their 70's early 80's now. Very independent and private about such things to the point of secretive. A will is swell to have, but IMHO, it's about money and stuff. My parents have/had wills. I have a copy of each at my house. But neither document lays out what the own, where their investments are or what their monthly income and expenses are. That's not in a will. Harping on this doesn't put you in a good light. Even if they had one, even if they told you it's a 50/50 split with your sister, it isn't going to throw daylight on their private financial life which is theirs to share or not.

IMHO, the bigger and more important pieces to this task of extreme adulting is getting the things like a dPOA to name you/and or your sister a secondary agent on each of their POAs (finances and health), Advanced Directives using MOST so you will know what they wanted should you ever have to make a judgement about medical treatment and signed HIPAA forms with all their doctors so you can communicate on their behalf. My dad purposely avoided POAs and setting up a trust because he was certain I would use it to put him in a home. Maybe if you came at it from that angle- "Mom, if something happened to you, I know you would want sister and I to be able to act on dad's behalf should he ever need that."

kbml.ky.gov/board/Documents/MOST%20Form.pdf

Good luck. I get how frustrating this is. Probating a will sucks, but obtaining guardianship, if needed, really, really sucks.

[jinkies]

My parents are super focused on the contents of my grandmother's will, and whether or not it is fair, how she should be making it more fair, how she's making things hard for them, etc.

Meanwhile, they are in their late 60s, with an estate that will be difficult to divide, and have no will. My dad is overweight and only just quit smoking after more than 40 years, and has lived to be older than either of his parents were when they died. My mom is currently undergoing chemo after her second bout of cancer in 5 years. Whenever I ask about getting their estate in order, they say they are "working on it." Or a few times my dad has admitted that they don't know the best way to divide the estate in a way that is fair, so they need to find someone with specific expertise in similar situations. And then... they just don't ever look for someone with that expertise.

It makes me absolutely crazy, but at some point you have to accept that you can not control other people, and you can not force adults to do something that they are not willing to do. If you have been encouraging them to get their estate together for over a decade, then they KNOW they should do it. They just... aren't. There's nothing else you can do here, and you are going to have to accept it and let it go.

[Rainyday]

My dad did not have a will and navigating that process sucked for me. I totally agree that it's selfish and immature for grown adults to stick their head in the sand about such situations. Everything takes longer, costs more money, and is more complicated if they don't name an executor of their estate. If this happens it goes through a probate court who will then assign an administrator of the estate (if there is no will it's called administrator). Even a basic will off Legal zoom would have saved me thousands of dollars in estate attorney fees.
If there are no named beneficiaries then a big chunk will go to the govt. Yay.
I think you and your sister are well within your rights to try to get them to make some sort of arrangements.
BUT....I don't think this weekend is the time to do it. It sounds like emotions are running high and they might feel ambushed. Do you have someone you can ask about this to get the ball rolling? Maybe make some calls, find a few estate attorneys and get a consultation. Game plan with your sister and go from there.

That being said, if they have debt and no real assets then I wouldn't worry as much. At that point you could just walk away and only have to worry about taking care of their remains. You personally will not be responsible for their debt but the estate will be.

The other scenario is one of your parents goes first. How will the surviving spouse handle everything, the house, cars, bills, etc. If you see yourself as having to step in a great deal at that point then I would still be concerned. If both parents would be ok getting by independently then it's less cause for concern.

Obviously I'm still a little salty, sorry if projecting. I wish you luck in handling this.

[minty]

Are your grandpas still living? If not, what happened when their own parents died?
For my mom, hearing about various awful experiences friends went through got her started feeling concerned. And my grandma set everything up about as meticulously as anyone could, and it was still a complicated process for my mom to go through after she passed.
So she has learned a lot through her own experience and from friends. It motivated her to get everything set up for my sister and I.

[lovelyshoes]

Oct 5, 2018 17:50:41 GMT -5 livinitup said:

lovelyshoes Yes, I have asked many times. For about ten years. Always a response of “yes, some day”. About 6 months ago, I had to face that my increasing anger on the issue was only damaging our relationship. But my mother had a health scare and my feeling have resurfaced. So, I am trying figure it out for the weekend visit.

Unfortunately you can’t make them do anything they don’t think is necessary. Bring it up again and maybe have a form will that you can show them that would at least address the very basic things. I get it, it’s super frustrating when adults don’t deal with their shit.

[JayhawkGirl]

I live this with my parents, even after seeing how much we went through with FIL, and they had things prepared. I get it - It’s hard, please don’t make it harder. And then...hope the house is set up so it doesn’t get hung up in probate and we are left with carrying costs and upkeep. Our neighbors are dealing with that on the house behind them. It’s been hung up for over 18 months. My parents just don’t want to think about it.

[isabel]

Oct 5, 2018 17:16:19 GMT -5 lovelyshoes said:

I’m not getting this question. Is your plan to kill them on this visit?
You’re all adults, ask them if it bothers you.

This is making me laugh harder than it should.

[pantsparty]

Ugh. When my grandma died it was such a fucking mess and as a result, we no longer talk to one of my mom's sisters.

A clearly explained and well organized estate plan is a gift to your children and helps to allay post-death grievances. Unfortunately I think unless you've experienced this you simply won't understand or prioritize.

[lexxasaurus]

Even with a will, I've been carrying the burden of my dad's estate for 18 months. I'm lucky to have an attorney that is willing to be paid after the house closed because I owe thousands and thousands of dollars. And because USDA is a piece of shit, really not a clear end in sight.

I'm thankful he had what he could do but it's going to be hard, regardless. All I can say is I'm so sorry you're dealing with anger from this.

[ohgillian]

Oct 5, 2018 22:43:16 GMT -5 lexxasaurus said:

Even with a will, I've been carrying the burden of my dad's estate for 18 months. I'm lucky to have an attorney that is willing to be paid after the house closed because I owe thousands and thousands of dollars. And because USDA is a piece of shit, really not a clear end in sight.

I'm thankful he had what he could do but it's going to be hard, regardless. All I can say is I'm so sorry you're dealing with anger from this.

Right? Even with a will it can still be long and complicated. I get so frustrated sometimes, but, I feel responsible for getting the work done.

[ellipses84]

My parents ended up having several elderly relatives pass away within 2 years of each other and my parents were the executors of all of the estates, and inherited property, some jointly. It was a huge PITA with wills in place. They still don’t have wills and I remind them often, but it upsets me that they know what they went through and can’t find the time to make it easier on their children so we don’t have to go through the same thing or worse. They still have 1 minor child at home, several kids between them who don’t all get along, and own several of the properties, so it would be complicated.

Sorry, I’m just commiserating. Maybe focus on how one of them could be negatively impacted if the other one passes without a will.

[livinitup]

UPDATE : We had a lovely weekend away. Really nice. I picked a quiet moment, at our second breakfast, to ask about the wills. I asked “Do you have a goal date to get the will signed?” My father was very chipper, saying “Next week, for sure.” My mother looked nauseated and refused to talk. My dad persevered with optimism. My mom yelled at me and walked away.

So, I updated my sister with the pros/cons of the conversation. She’s a lawyer (for 25 years, did I mention that). And will have her hands full now that my dad and mom are using her to “do the wills”. Good luck with that, sis.

[amberlyrose]

I spent the last 72 hours cleaning up my father in law's home and searching through paperwork. No wills, no clear idea on what bills he owes, how much is in his life insurance, etc.
I'm always harping on my parents to keep their wills and paperwork updated. They saw the mess we went through with MIL and get to see it again with FIL. It's going to be awful.

For others: I use my own updates to remind them, like "I moved xyz documents, in case something happens" or "spare keys are here now." It's a good jumping off point.

[MixedBerryJam]

My husband was so conscientious about having his papers in order and I use that as a lesson I pass along to people. We both knew all passwords, etc, what papers existed and where they are, names and phone numbers to ask the legal and financial people, we co-owned everything, etc. The one thing that was easy about that time in my life was settling the estate. I literally signed one piece of paper. I encourage every to think about how needlessly complicated those left beind will be if you don't have everything in order. It's a gift you will give your kids at a point in their lives when they will need simplicity. That's how I present it to people.

[lindyanne]

My dad and his wife thankfully have wills but my mom has neither a will nor a living will. I have two sisters but I don’t work and I’m also geographically the closest (4 hours versus 6 & 8) so I’m going to be the one dealing with it. My mom has nothing really to pass on and I don’t think my sisters and I will fight over the few sentimental items but it infuriated me that my mother is so infantile she can’t just figured out what she wants and go do it (I have even offered help)

[insominac]

Oct 5, 2018 17:19:50 GMT -5 thelurkylulu said:

I think it’s more important that your parents both know what their finances, life insurance policies, etc. are. It’s highly unlikely they will both pass at the same time and the surviving spouse should know those things, not necessarily the children.

Yes, instead of talking about the wills (which could make them feel resentful or something) I would take this approach. Maybe you or your sister could sit down with them to make sure all their paperwork is organized and everything has been discussed. If it’s organized for each of them, after all, it will be organized for you.