Post by redheadbaker on Feb 19, 2019 16:15:07 GMT -5
This is what someone wrote back to me (when I referenced him winning the Democratic primary for Vermont Senate, but declining the nomination):
"I guess I still am not sure why what party affiliation he has matters so much when he is running as a democrat and is a defacto democrat, as long as he support policies that I think are good (he does) and has a strong progressive voting record (he does). He could be part of the poo poo stinky butt diaper party and I would support him if he supported medicare for all and taking action on climate change."
Post by miniroller on Feb 19, 2019 17:16:18 GMT -5
Jennifer Rubin nailed it: Bernie Sanders is no big deal the second time around www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/19/bernie-sanders-is-no-big-deal-second-time-around/ **Love this entire opinion piece & certainly recommend reading, but this conclusion really resonated** Finally, Sanders’s candidacy might serve as a blinking red light for Biden. Democrats generally don’t believe party veterans have some inherent advantage. Biden will not be able to count on nostalgia any more than Sanders can. In the search for the Trump-slayer, Democrats are entirely capable of ruthless ingratitude to familiar faces. They want to win. Period.
& this part❤️: "In fact, after midterm elections in which moderate candidates endorsed by the moderate New Democrats flipped batches of Republican House seats and Sanders-endorsed (“Our Revolution”) candidates flipped none..."
Post by turnipthebeet on Feb 19, 2019 19:05:42 GMT -5
Here’s what rubs me the wrong way. His 2020 candidacy proves unequivocally that it was not about building a movement. If it were, there'd be more support for ensuring the eventual nominee has a progressive platform and that all communities are represented, not tearing down everyone else.
He could take credit for the shift to the left (not saying he deserves it) and dangle his endorsement out there, and be less damaging. But it’s not about any of that.
Here’s what rubs me the wrong way. His 2020 candidacy proves unequivocally that it was not about building a movement. If it were, there'd be more support for ensuring the eventual nominee has a progressive platform and that all communities are represented, not tearing down everyone else.
He could take credit for the shift to the left (not saying he deserves it) and dangle his endorsement out there, and be less damaging. But it’s not about any of that.
He would've BUILT A MOVEMENT and not returned to all I-VT as soon as he could and then done jackall until declaring his candidacy. Like, I get that the Senate is tough now, but WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, BERNARD?!
I mean, I'll vote for him in the general if he's the nominee, but hard pass for the primaries.
I would really hope we all would. Evil as he may be, a dead sack of bones would be a better president than our current one. Bernie fits the bill. 👍🏼
I'm not here.
Obviously, Bernie is better than Trump. But I also can't agree today that he should be given the respect that is due to every other candidate, ie, because he's (supposedly) on our side, he's deserving of some deference and is an acceptable last-resort option.
He's not a fucking democrat. He won't release his tax returns, and he spreads misogyny, racism, and Russian disinformation. He is incompetent. He began his campaign today by basically accusing all of his competitors of offering nothing other than vaginas and skin color to Democratic voters. He is truly horrible and he does not belong on our team.
If he becomes the nominee, we need to seriously look at what the fuck went wrong and how our nomination process effectively disenfranchised the base of this party. We need to consult with the actual base, go to the people most at risk of four more years of a Trump presidency, and ask what they want. We need to explore every legal channel for contesting the nomination. We need to put every pie in the sky option on the table, including an en masse walk away from the Democratic party to support a serious, viable third party candidate to effectively turn Bernie into a one man green party.
It is only after those most at risk are consulted, and every possible option for preventing both Bernie and Trump from being president is thoroughly considered and rejected will I support Bernie. But he's not automatically getting a promise from me.
I would really hope we all would. Evil as he may be, a dead sack of bones would be a better president than our current one. Bernie fits the bill. 👍🏼
I'm not here.
Obviously, Bernie is better than Trump. But I also can't agree today that he should be given the respect that is due to every other candidate, ie, because he's (supposedly) on our side, he's deserving of some deference and is an acceptable last-resort option.
He's not a fucking democrat. He won't release his tax returns, and he spreads misogyny, racism, and Russian disinformation. He is incompetent. He began his campaign today by basically accusing all of his competitors of offering nothing other than vaginas and skin color to Democratic voters. He is truly horrible and he does not belong on our team.
If he becomes the nominee, we need to seriously look at what the fuck went wrong and how our nomination process effectively disenfranchised the base of this party. We need to consult with the actual base, go to the people most at risk of four more years of a Trump presidency, and ask what they want. We need to explore every legal channel for contesting the nomination. We need to put every pie in the sky option on the table, including an en masse walk away from the Democratic party to support a serious, viable third party candidate to effectively turn Bernie into a one man green party.
It is only after those most at risk are consulted, and every possible option for preventing both Bernie and Trump from being president is thoroughly considered and rejected will I support Bernie. But he's not automatically getting a promise from me.
I usually agree with you, but this feels very much like a vote Jill Stein instead of Hillary attitude to me. I hope he isn't our nominee, but if so, then we need to get behind him and make sure he is elected.
Post by seeyalater52 on Feb 19, 2019 19:39:35 GMT -5
I admit that one of my highest priorities in the entire world is stopping Mike Pence from ever becoming president. If Bernie accomplishes that I’m probably going to end up satisfied.
Personally I have a hell of a lot riding on that. I know I’m not the only or even the most marginalized person in the world to have an opinion on this but that’s where I’m at right now. (In a VERY loose sense of the world, given my intense hatred for Bernie Sanders and many of his positions and general attitude.)
And then after the fact we can post mortem what the fuck is wrong with our party that we ended up with this choice, because I agree it would be unfortunate and certainly not in the very best interest of many folks who deserve to be represented by the Democratic Party.
Obviously, Bernie is better than Trump. But I also can't agree today that he should be given the respect that is due to every other candidate, ie, because he's (supposedly) on our side, he's deserving of some deference and is an acceptable last-resort option.
He's not a fucking democrat. He won't release his tax returns, and he spreads misogyny, racism, and Russian disinformation. He is incompetent. He began his campaign today by basically accusing all of his competitors of offering nothing other than vaginas and skin color to Democratic voters. He is truly horrible and he does not belong on our team.
If he becomes the nominee, we need to seriously look at what the fuck went wrong and how our nomination process effectively disenfranchised the base of this party. We need to consult with the actual base, go to the people most at risk of four more years of a Trump presidency, and ask what they want. We need to explore every legal channel for contesting the nomination. We need to put every pie in the sky option on the table, including an en masse walk away from the Democratic party to support a serious, viable third party candidate to effectively turn Bernie into a one man green party.
It is only after those most at risk are consulted, and every possible option for preventing both Bernie and Trump from being president is thoroughly considered and rejected will I support Bernie. But he's not automatically getting a promise from me.
I usually agree with you, but this feels very much like a vote Jill Stein instead of Hillary attitude to me. I hope he isn't our nominee, but if so, then we need to get behind him and make sure he is elected.
I'll have to hand over my, "I think he also accepted help from the Russians. Knowingly." tinfoil hat to vote for him.
Obviously, Bernie is better than Trump. But I also can't agree today that he should be given the respect that is due to every other candidate, ie, because he's (supposedly) on our side, he's deserving of some deference and is an acceptable last-resort option.
He's not a fucking democrat. He won't release his tax returns, and he spreads misogyny, racism, and Russian disinformation. He is incompetent. He began his campaign today by basically accusing all of his competitors of offering nothing other than vaginas and skin color to Democratic voters. He is truly horrible and he does not belong on our team.
If he becomes the nominee, we need to seriously look at what the fuck went wrong and how our nomination process effectively disenfranchised the base of this party. We need to consult with the actual base, go to the people most at risk of four more years of a Trump presidency, and ask what they want. We need to explore every legal channel for contesting the nomination. We need to put every pie in the sky option on the table, including an en masse walk away from the Democratic party to support a serious, viable third party candidate to effectively turn Bernie into a one man green party.
It is only after those most at risk are consulted, and every possible option for preventing both Bernie and Trump from being president is thoroughly considered and rejected will I support Bernie. But he's not automatically getting a promise from me.
I usually agree with you, but this feels very much like a vote Jill Stein instead of Hillary attitude to me. I hope he isn't our nominee, but if so, then we need to get behind him and make sure he is elected.
I'm not sure where you are getting that.
Look, if sixteen months from now, it turns out that the backbone of the party and those most at risk of a Trump presidency, overwhelmingly vote against Sanders and say, "you have to stop him, back Kamala in an independent run," I'm saying my reaction will be "yeah, this is a problem, let's see what our options are" and not whitesplain the stakes while telling them to get in line.
That is leaps and bounds different from saying I'll bite off my nose to spite my face and so should everyone else. Basically, if there is both a political will and a viable means to stop him, we should be using those things instead of giving up because he's the nominee. Maybe there won't be the political will, or maybe it will be there, but there won't be a viable method to stopping him. In those cases, I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him. But he's not one of us, and we shouldn't be going down without a fight eighteen months out.
I usually agree with you, but this feels very much like a vote Jill Stein instead of Hillary attitude to me. I hope he isn't our nominee, but if so, then we need to get behind him and make sure he is elected.
I'll have to hand over my, "I think he also accepted help from the Russians. Knowingly." tinfoil hat to vote for him.
This is one of the reasons I think he's so dangerous as a nominee. I think he'll accept the help again. And he's going to be too stupid and arrogant to see that the "help" is actually the Russians sabotaging him to keep Trump in power.
I admit that one of my highest priorities in the entire world is stopping Mike Pence from ever becoming president. If Bernie accomplishes that I’m probably going to end up satisfied.
Personally I have a hell of a lot riding on that. I know I’m not the only or even the most marginalized person in the world to have an opinion on this but that’s where I’m at right now. (In a VERY loose sense of the world, given my intense hatred for Bernie Sanders and many of his positions and general attitude.)
And then after the fact we can post mortem what the fuck is wrong with our party that we ended up with this choice, because I agree it would be unfortunate and certainly not in the very best interest of many folks who deserve to be represented by the Democratic Party.
That's totally fair.
I haven't seen the evidence that Bernie can win under any circumstance, which is why I'm just not ready to make a firm commitment to supporting him as the nominee so we can win, KWIM? I feel like that fucker needs to work harder.
But he's not one of us, and we shouldn't be going down without a fight eighteen months out.
Literally no one in here is suggesting we go down without a fight. I sincerely doubt anyone posting in here is voting for him and I’m guessing most are already speaking out about him running. Sorry, the quote got all weird.
He won’t have 50% of the attention because of the crowded primary field. He’ll certainly have more than, say, that Indiana mayor whose name I need to learn to spell, but he’s not looking at a breakout performance here. He’s alienated too many people with his antics. Plus I think a lot of people just flat out think he’d be a terrible Executive, on a gut level. Just unabashedly awful. His age is also a turnoff. I’ve seen that cited more than anything else as a reason to not seriously consider him.
The cultists though, yeesh. In their eyes he’s immortal.
I think he will start out the “favorite” though because of his 2016 run. And that means more interest by the press in writing about him. Of course, that also means there will be a Fake News push from the left.
I maintain that there will be a candidate in the primary whose sole purpose will be to release allllll the oppo on him. Dirty little secret of presidential primaries: not everyone is there to seriously make a run for the office.
I usually agree with you, but this feels very much like a vote Jill Stein instead of Hillary attitude to me. I hope he isn't our nominee, but if so, then we need to get behind him and make sure he is elected.
I'm not sure where you are getting that.
Look, if sixteen months from now, it turns out that the backbone of the party and those most at risk of a Trump presidency, overwhelmingly vote against Sanders and say, "you have to stop him, back Kamala in an independent run," I'm saying my reaction will be "yeah, this is a problem, let's see what our options are" and not whitesplain the stakes while telling them to get in line.
That is leaps and bounds different from saying I'll bite off my nose to spite my face and so should everyone else. Basically, if there is both a political will and a viable means to stop him, we should be using those things instead of giving up because he's the nominee. Maybe there won't be the political will, or maybe it will be there, but there won't be a viable method to stopping him. In those cases, I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him. But he's not one of us, and we shouldn't be going down without a fight eighteen months out.
I don't understand how there would be any viable option to stop him if he is the nominee. If we run a Dem candidate as a third party against Bernie, then Trump will win.
Look, if sixteen months from now, it turns out that the backbone of the party and those most at risk of a Trump presidency, overwhelmingly vote against Sanders and say, "you have to stop him, back Kamala in an independent run," I'm saying my reaction will be "yeah, this is a problem, let's see what our options are" and not whitesplain the stakes while telling them to get in line.
That is leaps and bounds different from saying I'll bite off my nose to spite my face and so should everyone else. Basically, if there is both a political will and a viable means to stop him, we should be using those things instead of giving up because he's the nominee. Maybe there won't be the political will, or maybe it will be there, but there won't be a viable method to stopping him. In those cases, I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him. But he's not one of us, and we shouldn't be going down without a fight eighteen months out.
I don't understand how there would be any viable option to stop him if he is the nominee. If we run a Dem candidate as a third party against Bernie, then Trump will win.
The crowd thins out relatively quickly, right? Since the rest of the candidates are all strong (for the most part), it seems like the non-Bro votes will be pretty evenly divided among all of them, meaning none have a portion as large as the Bro contingent. I am hoping some people drop out fast and rally behind one particular candidate so they can amass the votes and outpace him.
I’m already having Bernie Bros (who claim they’re not) arguing with me and female friends on Facebook over our criticisms of him. I’m exhausted already.
I’m already having Bernie Bros (who claim they’re not) arguing with me and female friends on Facebook over our criticisms of him. I’m exhausted already.
It’s as pointless an exercise as arguing with Trumpsters. They are cut from the same cloth. Cut bait, move on. None of them will waver in support nor will they ever offer up a convincing argument for his candidacy. I think of the die-hard Bernie Bros as spirit animals of the vocal fanboy group that cropped up around Rand Paul’s dad (and I’m blanking on his name which says everything doesn’t it).
I’m already having Bernie Bros (who claim they’re not) arguing with me and female friends on Facebook over our criticisms of him. I’m exhausted already.
It’s as pointless an exercise as arguing with Trumpsters. They are cut from the same cloth. Cut bait, move on. None of them will waver in support nor will they ever offer up a convincing argument for his candidacy. I think of the die-hard Bernie Bros as spirit animals of the vocal fanboy group that cropped up around Rand Paul’s dad (and I’m blanking on his name which says everything doesn’t it).
Ron Paul. And the overlap just shows how stupid and ridiculous they are because they stand for opposite economic positions.
I do not think Bernie will do nearly as well this year.
I saw a tweet that I think summed it up perfectly: Bernie underestimates his popularity vs. Hillary’s unpopularity. Yes, he has some die hard fans. But there are a lot of people who were just looking for someone other than Hillary to support. This year, they will have a lot of options. And I think women who liked his overall ideology last time are going to be drawn to Warren because she’s a fuckton smarter than he is.
I also think some of the opposition research that didn’t get a lot of traction last time may pick up a little steam. The Clinton campaign couldn’t bring this stuff up or even have staffers talk on background about it because it was going to be really obvious who brought it up and would cause backlash. Things are very very different this year.
He’s not going to get the nom. He is facing a vastly different political landscape this time around. And he didn’t even do that well last time. I mean HRC smoked him. He is incredibly unliked. He just has a passionate but small base of a very non representative demographic. I haven’t seen anyone in my life show any excitement for him. And I had a ton of Bernie Bros in my life. I’m surprised by his money haul to the point where I don’t believe it. Wasn’t a lot of his money last time from foreign contributors?!
I loved how Stephen Colbert described him last night “Vermont Senator & man who wants to try a few more frozen yogurt flavors before he places his order: Bernie Sanders”