Decision Time!

[mustardseed2007]

Help me: 
DD's current school (montessori) has suggested multiple times that she needs to either do kinder twice or do preschool with them again. We intend for her to ultimately go to DS' school. She visited DS' school (traditional private school with a lot of stem stuff mixed in), and we had communicated to them what DS' school had said and they've evaluated her too. They just called to tell me that they want to extend her an offer to come, but they want to make that offer for Pre K 4, not for kinder. We have until April to tell the traditional school, but the re-enrollment deadline for DD was Friday, so we need to tell them ASAP. 

To start off, we are comfortable with her delaying kinder. We agree with them on their assessments. Hopefully there's no underlying issue but neither school is saying that is the case...

Montessoi Pros:
1) They will let her do kinder there, which, if she does that she can finish her capstone year
of the 3 year montessori cycle. They find this to be very important. With DS I agreed, with DD I'm not so sure.  
2) We leave on good terms, they hate it when you leave in the middle of a cycle. But oh well right? 
3) If she does Kinder, she will be given a work plan each day to complete. This is important b/c right now she wanders rather than completing lessons (see my post last week about her teacher saying she's been wandering around). 
4) Afternoons are spent in large group lessons with Prek4 and Kinder kids where there is a curriculum. Normally science related. 
5) More responsibility for DD. Independence and self direction are the emphasis. Not sure if this is a pro? 
6) It's the cheaper option


Montessori cons:
1) She may fall behind b/c it's all self directed
with some teacher encouragement, We know she wanders around
2) She may become frustrated by being given that independence when she's not ready for it. DS didn't like his kindergarten year. He found it lonely compared to being in a class in 1st grade where everyone is doing the same thing. I'm not sure how DD feels (she doesn't communicate well. She's in speech therapy for this). 
3) DD does not get much at all out of these afternoon lessons right now. That's one of the clues her current school had that she needs to repeat PRe K or do kinder twice. 

The Traditional School Pros:
1) DS has had good results
2) She'll be encouraged by peers
3) She'll be with a group that is her maturity level and not below or above
4) They have a decent curriculum
5) She'll have a smaller class being in prek 4
6) Less pressure

The Traditional School Cons:
1) We don't know who the teacher is going to be. Old teacher was out on maternity leave all year. Current teacher is great and I really like her more than the teacher who is on maternity leave. But either one is ok. 
2) Pre-K is a half day program for many kids. After lunch, the kids who stay until 3:20 have an imposed rest period(they nap or read). At the montessori school they drop the nap when your kid turns 4 and DD really doesn't need a nap. 
3) Afternoon is play with educational toys and art materials with the after school teacher. We know her and like her. But there's not a curriculum.
4) It's more expensive. 

So...montessori or traditional? Thoughts? 

[mustardseed2007]

Sorry that was so long

[waverly]

The Montessori was where your DS was prior, correct? I am not a fan of them. I just remember some of the issues that you had with them before or that your DS had with them. I didn't think their assessment was super accurate for your DS, so I am questioning it for your DD.

When is her birthday? If she is a younger kid in the class, I can see to hold back. And it makes a bit more sense if BOTH schools are saying hold back as opposed to just the Montessori.

My preference when possible is to have both kids at the same school especially if it helps in the world of drop offs and pick ups. And if you will be sending her to the traditional school in a year anyway, I don't see a reason to wait.

I really don't care if the school is upset that I pull a kid mid cycle. I see that more of a reason to not commit to a Montessori from the beginning if you don't want to do a cycle, but since you are committed, and were just kind of eh with DS and moved him, then I don't see it mattering for DD that she completes a cycle.

What is the price difference? And does it matter in terms of your budget? When I moved DD to align with the aftercare option for DS it was a drop in price, and closer and now has busing, so that made the decision easier in general.


ETA- I guess I am confused on why, if she is supposed to start K, both schools are saying not to start K or if she does to repeat it.  I think I need more clarification on why she can't go into K.   

[2chatter]

Is there an option 3? We did one year of preK at DC then one year of preK at private school then kinder because DD has a September birthday. That was three schools in three years and it was good for DD.

It sounds like your DD would be best in a hybrid school (not a full on Montessori). We saw several that were Montessori style work for part of the day, then a mix of play based and lessons. Children’s Learning Adventure is one like that locally. DS went there for part of the summer when we pulled him from Montessori before K and it was the perfect bridge between Montessori and kinder.

[traveltheworld]

I would go to the (new) traditional school. Sounds like you are not thrilled with the Montessori. And also sounds like more structure may benefit her - you don't know for sure if the traditional school will provide more structure, but chances are they will. I'd only keep her in the Montessori school if she loves it and is thriving there, but neither seems to be the case.

I know the guilt of not finishing the Montessori cycle - DS didn't, and DD won't either; but I also heard from a lot of other parents that year 3 ended up being very boring for their child as most parents leave and put their children in normal kindergarten.

[sacattack]

I think they are about equal in pros/cons so I'd go with the traditional school because that is where your other child is (one drop off/pick up) and that is where she is going long term so she can become familiar with the activity flow of that school.

[covergirl82]

I would lean toward the traditional school. It sounds like the afternoon is kind of a wash at both places, and I would rather have both my kids at the same school. And I agree with others that it sounds like more structure might be good for your DD.

[k3am]

TBH, I think you're already leaning towards the traditional school.

From my personal point of view... you've already identified that the Montessori teaching style isn't a great fit for your kid. Why would it suddenly be a better fit next year?

[librarychica]

Mar 4, 2019 12:25:55 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

I would go to the (new) traditional school. Sounds like you are not thrilled with the Montessori. And also sounds like more structure may benefit her - you don't know for sure if the traditional school will provide more structure, but chances are they will. I'd only keep her in the Montessori school if she loves it and is thriving there, but neither seems to be the case.

I know the guilt of not finishing the Montessori cycle - DS didn't, and DD won't either; but I also heard from a lot of other parents that year 3 ended up being very boring for their child as most parents leave and put their children in normal kindergarten.

I agree. I would go traditional, especially since you plan to have her there long term. FWIW, my DD1 finished the 3yr cycle and DD2 probably won’t. Different kids, different needs.

[mustardseed2007]

I probably am leaning toward the traditional school. I agree she hasn't done very well so far so how will next year really benefit her? That's what I'm thinking.

I think my reservations are along the lines of wishing the traditional school was a little different than it is. Specifically, more organized in the afternoon, and I wish I knew who the teacher was going to be. I may email them back and ask again. I think the admissions person doesn't have all the information that may be available (she should but she doesn't).

In terms of cost, traditional is 13,600 inclusive of after school care till 6pm for the school year. No summer program offered which is another downside I keep forgetting about. That will be another expense on top of everything.

Montessori is 14,640 but that's 12 months (inclusive of a summer program).

[mustardseed2007]

Also, the drive between the two is 2 minutes. They are literally a short ways down the street from one another. So two drop off is a thing, but it's not a Thing.

ETA: to give perspective, the montessori school sometimes makes a deal with DS' school to use their parking lot for overflow parking during events. 

[waverly]

So that price difference is not completely irrelevant, even if a camp is $250 a week would be an extra $3K. But eventually you would be paying for both there anyway, so I guess just for 1 year.

It sounds like the Montessori is not really organized all day as opposed to just the afternoon. I agree that if you need more information on the traditional school to get it on the teacher. And maybe ask more about their afternoons. Our daycare still had activities until the 3-4 time frame but they can be play activities rather than academic which is probably what she needs considering they want Pre-K they are thinking more play based for her than academic.

I think you could say to the school, can I get more information for the afternoons. And if it is disappointing say I was hoping for a bit more structure and see if they are interested in providing her something. In our case, it wasn't an issue at the daycare center, but aftercare was and they did move to more structure after I pushed. We ultimately left there anyway, but I mean kids were spinning on tables. So they did set up centers and had a homework one, and a game one, and a block one, and a reading one etc.


Pick up and drop off sound more annoying than inconvenient, but eventually I would get more and more annoyed.


ETA- For pre-K I would be happy even if they do a story time maybe in the afternoon, a craft, recess, and play time at centers.  That would be fine with me as long as they are working on academics in the morning.  We had themes like weather, spring, plant a garden stuff like that which was nice, but yes lots of play time which is what everyone says to do anyway for pre-school.  

[mommyatty]

I would go with traditional for a reason you haven’t identified: most traditional private school develop what ours calls “a community of scholars” or “a community of learners.” These kids will be together for years. It was important to us that DD and DS both got involved in that community as soon as possible. DD in first grade has been with most of these kids since preschool, when she was 3. This is their 4th year together. Kids who started in kindergarten or first grade are very subtle outsiders. Not that anyone is mean, but already the ones who’ve been together forever just have their own society. It’s hard to be “the new kid.” I much preferred having them be new when everyone was new.

Also, just not a fan of Montessori. Its philosophy has never made sense to me. I’d rather my kid be in art and structured play for half a day than wandering around aimlessly with “a work plan” all day.

[waverly]

mommyatty , I studied holistic education and Montessori sounds awesome. But, I think they like other schools are all different, and schools implement then differently, and some of them (maybe even many of them) do not do a great job and some kids don't mesh with it. And ultimately I decided against it because we were already at our daycare center, and it didn't make sense to have them in 2 different schools 15 minutes apart and then pull him from public K or have him enter as a new student in 1st since public was our intention. And their 3 year cycles kind of make it hard to just do it for a year.

What I have heard from here, and the reviews of our local Montessori is that when they switch to another school they are behind. And they don't go to 12th grade- the school here, so they have to switch at some point.

[mustardseed2007]

mommyatty, you're right about the community aspect. I saw it with DS and I still see it. Although all the boys in his class like him and are nice to him, he's not in their pack. He gets along well with the girls and that's who he plays with. Part of this is that he's not into the same stuff (the boys play football and while he plays imaginary role playing type games iwth the girls like pokemon or zombie), but I wish he'd started sooner with these kids.

His class is particularly small, so I'm hoping more kids join eventually and it mixes things up. In the mean time one of his favorite girls is leaving - boo.

Anyway, that is something I'm hoping she will avoid by starting now.

I'll have to talk to DH tonight. A few weeks ago he was completely done with the idea of the montessori school. Now he's questioning b/c of the program seeming so junior to what she's been receiving (He said: "What do you mean 'they NAP?'"). But again, we're hearing she's not getting the full value out of her current program anyway.

[2chatter]

mustardseed2007 - FWIW I balked at DD moving from Montessori to private because of the naptime. But several friends told me our former private school was worth it. They were right. DD didn’t nap - she read herself books. It was fantastic.

[mustardseed2007]

DH came home pretty adamant about not moving her-taking steps backward in her program and cost are his two major concerns.

I kind of have him talked into moving her, but it's like...weird because I don't feel super strongly that either way is going to make a big difference. Either way it feels like next year is a bridge year, which feels like the same as marking time until she grows up. Kind of like a throw away year? I'm also trying to talk myself out of feeling that way.

[freezorburn]

I’m missing something ... What sort of assessments have been done and by whom? What are the concerns?

[ilovelucyvv]

I would like to have a little more info about why they want her to delay or repeat Kinder. You might have posted it elsewhere and I missed it. DD is one of the youngest kids in her K class and she struggles sometimes but it is getting better. Your daughter might do better in K than what people are predicting?

Overall i would choose the traditional school.

[waverly]

Mar 4, 2019 23:04:32 GMT -5 mustardseed2007 said:

DH came home pretty adamant about not moving her-taking steps backward in her program and cost are his two major concerns.

I kind of have him talked into moving her, but it's like...weird because I don't feel super strongly that either way is going to make a big difference. Either way it feels like next year is a bridge year, which feels like the same as marking time until she grows up. Kind of like a throw away year? I'm also trying to talk myself out of feeling that way.

I think you are right. Not that it is a throwaway year, but that she would probably be fine ish at either program especially because she has 2 loving and involved parents and will be going to a nice school for K. DS repeated K not for any reason except he missed the cut off for public school by 5 weeks, and is one of the oldest in the class. He was bored in pre-k so he was moved to K at daycare and then did half day K at public school and another curriculum at daycare the next year. It was a bit strange but at least having one at daycare and one at public helped it be more fresh for him. And it’s good for him to be the oldest since he struggles with his fine motor skills still. Gross motor skills are mostly better. I am just biased since I didn’t like their attitude with your DS and he had to go for special tutoring- maybe not their fault but it didn’t seem like they were really helping that situation.

Maybe you would have felt better about it if private school had accepted her at the k level so you could see if she could do it. I agonized a lot on the timing because his scores are high on his tests and I was the youngest in my class and did fine, but at the end of the day I think it works out well for him and gives him that extra year to mature before college. Our neighbors have a girl whose birthday is 2 weeks before the cut off so she was the youngest, and she ended up repeating K at a private catholic school.

[mustardseed2007]

waverly, I think I would have felt better if they'd taken her as kinder only because the program is more similar to what she's doing now. But on the other hand, I don't dispute that they are right about her maturity.

I only hope that the need to repeat is not indicative of some other problem. But I don't want to test too soon because if she needs testing I don't want to retest. It's not dyslexia as she knows her letters, it'd be more like ADD or something?

I checked in with her teacher this morning about whether she's started doing work again. The teacher said she did music, and some sequencing with a friend. Those are important pieces of work, but she refused to do letters or to make a list of work to do. I just think this kid is running the show too much.

Last night I had also thought about how we added 1:1 tutoring for DS and it changed a lot for him. We could probably do the same thing for her without testing at either school (at the montessori I'd be easier b/c it's cheaper), but I don't know if the results would be the same because her problem isn't the same.

[waverly]

You might find that more structure in the classroom could help that problem. With ADHD I think they are testing at younger ages. I’ve been on the fence with DS in this but we haven’t pursued testing because he was doing ok in school with the exception of being stubborn with writing. He is 8.5 now. If you aren’t pursuing testing/ medication then most of the therapy towards ADHD is aimed at parents and teachers for strategies to make the kids more successful which you could totally do without pursuing testing anyway. This is where we have landed. The kid running the show might also be a reason to move her. Hopefully new teacher will be more persistent and persuasive.

OT might be in our future again but for now the teacher convinced the OT to work with a group of students in her class and the school is doing an OT eval, so I am holding off on private OT until I hear back.

[polecat8]

mustardseed2007, your DD sounds a little like mine at that age.
My DD was diagnosed with ADD - inattentive type and the signs started showing in preschool. She would do things like refuse to do work and seem to not listen to the teacher. She even failed standardized math testing in kindergarten because she didn't feel like doing the test that day, which landed her in Title 1 Math for first grade. In reality, she was stuck inside her own head. She still got good grades and was able to keep up with the class. But she had trouble managing multi-step projects or anything that was too hard for her (she struggles to create/write stories, but loves to do math).
DH and I brought it up to the pedi who helped us distribute Vanderbilt surveys to her teachers. The results showed ADD and we started her on meds. We also work with a therapist to create strategies on how to handle those tasks that she struggles with. We are very happy with our pedi and therapist support. The school is trying to help us as best as they can. Right now, we do not have a 504 plan because DD seems to be flourishing now. We'll revisit when she enters middle school next year.
My only regret is that we didn't get her screened earlier. We had some signs early, but didn't get her tested until 4th grade. Our concerns were increased when DD was struggling more and more due to the increased work load. Until then, she was able to coast by since she is pretty intelligent.

If I was in your position, I would visit the pedi and bring up your concerns. They might refer you to a child psychologist. This may be a good independent evaluation.

Good luck!

[2chatter]

DS refused to work a ton at Montessori. His teachers were super annoyed. Then all of a sudden he would do it. A world map with labels and the 100s board come to mind. He doesn’t strike me like DD - perfectionist - but there’s something there. The solution for DS was he couldn’t work silently - like, he wasn’t capable. So they let him talk only to the teacher or himself - and it made a huge difference. He was working on basic multiplication before kinder and still complains that first grade math isn’t even there yet. So another plus for the traditional school - she will be on track with their curriculum. All three of mine entered kinder significantly ahead (two due to Montessori) and it really slowed them down and I think permanently impacted them.

So consider if she does start engaging at Montessori - she could end up way ahead of the traditional school and then lose that momentum. I’d forgotten about that angle....would DH find curriculum alignment persuasive?

[186momx]

mustardseed2007, did the private school say why they were offering her a spot in Pre-K instead of K? I guess I would want to know why they felt she needed to repeat pre-k instead of going into K.
It doesn't sound like she is getting with the program at Montessori. She is running the show and if she doesn't want to do something they won't say no you need to go spend 10 minutes working on letters or playing math games. Is there anyway you can watch without her seeing you at any given time during the day at school now to see what she is doing?

It sounds like she needs a more traditional setting where everyone is doing the same thing. But I'm really interested in why the private said to put her in Pre-K over K and if you can get her up to speed would they be willing to move her to K next fall if she meets standards at that time. 6 months is a long time for a kid to grow and things to click.

[mustardseed2007]

186momx, I think there are a few things going on. First of all, when you watch her in a group of kids, of mixed ages, she's acting like a 3 year old in that she's not paying attention to directions, she's in her own head. She's finding anything else to look at that she can. She's not acting up in a crazy disruptive way, but she'll move as much as she's allowed to move and pay attention as little as she can. She won't participate in discussions at all. B/c of her speech issues, she has a hard time communicating with her peers and generally won't. They characterized that as being quiet.

Also, I disclosed to them that her current school had suggested repeating kinder.

Also, their rising kinder class is large and the pre-k class is small so in a way it works better for them (they didn't say that, that's just what I think).