Military Housing Crisis

[Deleted]

Anyone want to talk about it? I'm interested in hearing testimony this week. I just came from a sensing session with the IG. I live in a remote location and I feel like they take advantage of DoD civilians and E6+ living in legacy housing because they take all BAH but it doesn't seem to be the fair market value for privatized housing. I pay 1300 and a captain I know pays her full BAH of 1400 for housing meant for E-6. We are at a remote location that is 40 minutes drive to the nearest town so there seems to be a monopoly on housing. 

My housing is run down and is from 1980 2bd/1ba. They want to switch to low flow toilets and shower head and tap regulators. They also want to install Nest thermostats but like my internal doors don't even match colors, my screen door is irreparable so it was keep as is or remove, I tape cardboard above the vent on my stove so dust and dirty stops flying in with windstorms (high desert), I taped a side door I don't use shut because daylight pours in from it, the enamel on my tub has worn off, I have had three ant invasions from internal pipes (bless who does pest control but I got rid of them with Terro), dust comes in through my drafty windows, my intake whistles in the wind, I have hair painted into my bathroom walls, my vertical blinds are all different shades of discolor and different lengths, and I've had three gas leaks and I seem to be calling every 2-3 months because something else has broken down (towel rack fell out of the wall, water heater went out, bathroom fan went out, bathroom outlet stopped working...twice, gas leak in my hvac, gas leak on my water heater). 

I very much in the boat of suck it up. I mean I was deployed and lived in a 20 ft shipping container cut in half for two years and shit in a portie but the only way conditions will improve for future people will be that I speak up now.  

[dcn]

The town hall where we are was lively to say the least. My H is a field grade officer so we live in newer housing - though my next door neighbor is an O-1 so we pay way more than they do for the same house.

But the older housing here is awful. Mold, plumbing issues, nothing has been updated in decades.

I’ve always shook my head at the lack of actual maintenance they do. And we’ve lived on post at 4 different posts now. It’s all the same. Sure they’ll fix my clogged drain but they don’t clean the gutters or do anything to prevent damage. And when damage does occur they do the cheapest half assed job.

We like the convenience of living on post and my h has more time with the kids bc he basically has no commute. I remember looking at a house they wanted to put us in at fort Leavenworth and I cried bc it was so bad. I walked out and told my h no way was I putting children in that house. Ugh.

I honestly don’t know how they will fix it all. Every post has so many houses that just need to be torn down and rebuilt.

[VillainV]

I haven’t lived on base in a long time, mostly because of the horror stories I’ve heard. A good friend’s wife (who was AD at the time) lived in mold-infested housing and she and her kids ended up with a host of medical issues that the med group insisted was “all in her head” and refused to diagnose or treat for years.

I’m glad that this is finally getting attention, but it makes me sick that it took congressional action to even begin looking into this. Huge failure of leadership.

[Deleted]

I feel like the townhalls are justifying the actions of housing and stating policy as justification. Obviously, there are issues and the policies and regulations are failing our service members.

[VillainV]

Mar 6, 2019 20:46:55 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

I feel like the townhalls are justifying the actions of housing and stating policy as justification. Obviously, there are issues and the policies and regulations are failing our service members.

Yup. Town Halls should have happened a LONG time ago. The time for explaining policy has past.

[G22]

We have never lived on base, but I've heard stories which is why we've never been swayed to live there. I've heard mixed things about the housing at our current base. I know they are doing a townhall here soon, I certainly hope people go and voice concerns!

[Aquatica]

I'm interested to see what actually comes from this or if anything will ever be done. At the last base, the contract with the housing office was long (like over 20 years). Will these contracts be pulled and given to someone else that is willing to fix these issues?

The last post I lived on had a lot of issues. Mold, housing telling residents it's their fault for the mold for not properly ventilating the bathroom (there were no fans installed in the bathrooms and then after 4 years, you had to request it to be installed), to just bleach mold to clean it up, and horrible communication.

My personal issues with housing was rent specials given to certain neighborhoods, not based on bedroom size (we had a 2 bedroom and was paying all of BAH $1500 while others in 3-4 bedrooms were getting $400 off and had more square footage), standing water in my basement for two months, housing not wanting to remove drywall that had mold on it from the water being down there for two months until I mentioned JAG (someone was out that day then to cut it out), continual plumbing issues, neighbors dog howling all day for over 6 months before anything was ever done, and the lack of upkeep/repairs in lower enlisted housing areas. Repairs and beautification was done in higher enlisted housing while our areas looked like crap. Pot holes, barely visible lines in parking areas, peeling paint, siding falling off, fences falling down, etc.

The base I was at had a volunteer program to assist residents with issues with housing and met with Garrison Command every other month. There were town hall meetings every month. It feels like there is no reason why these homes ever got in this condition. Every meeting with GC, we would bring in issues residents were having with a paper trail of housing failing to fix it, and finally it would get taken care of. It shouldn't take GC putting pressure on housing for them to finally fix an issue.

I'm sorry for my soapbox but hope something will finally be done.

[dcn]

This is minor but when we moved in December, housing came to do a walkthrough before our final inspection. Our carpet was really worn and old so I asked if they were going to replace it, bc if so, I wasn’t paying to have it cleaned. The housing person said “Oh yeah, these are pretty worn. We’ll replace them. You shouldn’t have to live with carpets like these at your rank.” AT YOUR RANK. As if people with lower ranks should be ok with dirty worn carpets? Turns out they put laminate down throughout the house after we moved.

Also we had a family of rabbits living in our crawl space. I called a few times about it and they finally came when I mentioned there was insulation sticking out. They opened it up, said “oh wow” and said their manager would be out to look. I called a few more times then gave up. We also could hear mice or squirrels or something in our walls. They set some traps in the attic and that was it. Just zero follow through unless you badgered them. With the comment above about rank, I can only imagine the terrible treatment lower ranking families encountered.

I think the scope of problems is well beyond what anyone realizes.

[Aquatica]

dcn You reminded me of carpets. Housing at our last station stated there was no law they were required to follow and wouldn't change the carpets unless the carpet was beyond repair. Then, they would charge full price on old carpets on move outs.

[dcn]

Mar 10, 2019 1:50:29 GMT -5 Aquatica said:

dcn You reminded me of carpets. Housing at our last station stated there was no law they were required to follow and wouldn't change the carpets unless the carpet was beyond repair. Then, they would charge full price on old carpets on move outs.

Yikes.

Per the congressional hearing i watched part of, they are cancelling the current contracts and rewriting them. Top housing officials at many posts have been fired. Also the military is supposed to do more oversight. The Army is adding more positions for oversight. I.....don’t understand why they weren’t doing that to begin with.

I mean this stuff has been complained and talked about at least as long as H has been in the military - almost 15 years now.

There is talk of privitizing the moving process now. So that can get even more terrible.

[Deleted]

Local command here set up a hotline for those who feel work orders are not being done in a timely fashion. ie. someone's sink/garbage disposal stopped working and they said that they will not be able to get to it until normal business hours tomorrow and they aren't considering it an emergency. So there's food in standing water in her kitchen sink that then overflowed onto her floor because she tried to use her dishwasher but it's not an emergency? Okay then...

[Aquatica]

Mar 10, 2019 9:16:30 GMT -5 dcn said:

Yikes.

Per the congressional hearing i watched part of, they are cancelling the current contracts and rewriting them. Top housing officials at many posts have been fired. Also the military is supposed to do more oversight. The Army is adding more positions for oversight. I.....don’t understand why they weren’t doing that to begin with.

I mean this stuff has been complained and talked about at least as long as H has been in the military - almost 15 years now.

There is talk of privitizing the moving process now. So that can get even more terrible.

I'm glad something is being done. There has been hotlines opened at our current base (OCONUS) for residents to seek help for housing not fixing issues.

15 years is a long time for these issues. Wow. My H has been in for 6 years so we're new to this situation.

Oh no. I hope the moving process isn't privatized. I've read a few accounts of horrible movers/moving companies.

[morecoffeeplease]

I know I'm late but we just moved from housing. Never again.

Our living room would flood every time it rained, even if it was a small rain storm. They ignored phone calls and e-mails about it for six months. I finally sent video of my feet squishing on the carpet to their fb page and that's when the Navy Chief who works to over look housing called me.

Our downstairs was always freezing and our upstairs was always hot.

Our laundry room had shifting tiles on it because of how many times that flooded. They never cleaned the gutters and we could hear animals in the walls.

Like I said, never again.

[ilovecandy]

We lived on base twice once at an air Force Base in South Carolina between the time we sold our house off base and actually pcsed (about 5 months). We lived in the a new house for an e6 and it was shit. (It was a duplex). There were huge cracks in the ceilings and walls b cause they houses were built so crappy and something with the foundations on those houses (it was a know issue to housing they told us at our end inspection to not worry about because it is a builder issue.

Our second base we actually had a really nice house in Arizona same rank and similar bah (I think maybe $200 difference if there was one)as south Carolina. But there was also really bad housing there too. They were in the process of tearing out the much much older housing but the e1-e6 main neighborhood houses/duplexes we're still not great. We got a smaller neighborhood that was strictly ,e5-e6 at the time. When we were leaving they actually started changing ranks and neighborhood s around our neighborhood is now e7-e9.

Housing has always been an issue and the companies are never held responsible. I really hope that changes.

[calmcosmo]

We only lived in housing once and it was when my husband did a 12 month war college course and we figured it was easier to live in housing and have him walk to school than sign a 12 month lease in town and have him drive.

That was enough... Our home was old (1902) and had a leaky ceiling that was never addressed. They tried to charge us for carpet damages caused by the leak even though 1. they didn't fix the leak even though I reported it several times and 2. legally, the carpet was depreciated to a point where according to state law they couldn't charge me. So, yea. No. They tried to fight me but I'm a landlord myself and know how to look up rental laws. They eventually backed off.

Lately privatized housing has gone the way of "fill at all costs" which means housing is first come first served and rank blind (even DOD employees and contractors can apply). This is fine I guess but we aren't paying O-5 BAH to live in the same house as someone paying E-3 BAH next door. Sorry. I'll pay market value - but if you're just taking the whole allowance and putting me in typical government housing I am going to go into town and spend my money wisely on either a nicer home, or a lesser home and pocket the difference.

The above, paired with the mold issues and other stories I've heard makes me stay far far away. It would take something really remarkable to get me to live in military housing ever again.

[dcn]

Apr 30, 2019 15:57:55 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

We only lived in housing once and it was when my husband did a 12 month war college course and we figured it was easier to live in housing and have him walk to school than sign a 12 month lease in town and have him drive.

That was enough... Our home was old (1902) and had a leaky ceiling that was never addressed. They tried to charge us for carpet damages caused by the leak even though 1. they didn't fix the leak even though I reported it several times and 2. legally, the carpet was depreciated to a point where according to state law they couldn't charge me. So, yea. No. They tried to fight me but I'm a landlord myself and know how to look up rental laws. They eventually backed off.

Lately privatized housing has gone the way of "fill at all costs" which means housing is first come first served and rank blind (even DOD employees and contractors can apply). This is fine I guess but we aren't paying O-5 BAH to live in the same house as someone paying E-3 BAH next door. Sorry. I'll pay market value - but if you're just taking the whole allowance and putting me in typical government housing I am going to go into town and spend my money wisely on either a nicer home, or a lesser home and pocket the difference.

The above, paired with the mold issues and other stories I've heard makes me stay far far away. It would take something really remarkable to get me to live in military housing ever again.

I read recently that the housing you lived in is no longer offered to students - they're going to turn it into offices or something. Too expensive to actually fix the problems, and finally deemed unacceptable apparently.  



  

[morecoffeeplease]

Apr 30, 2019 15:57:55 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

We only lived in housing once and it was when my husband did a 12 month war college course and we figured it was easier to live in housing and have him walk to school than sign a 12 month lease in town and have him drive.

That was enough... Our home was old (1902) and had a leaky ceiling that was never addressed. They tried to charge us for carpet damages caused by the leak even though 1. they didn't fix the leak even though I reported it several times and 2. legally, the carpet was depreciated to a point where according to state law they couldn't charge me. So, yea. No. They tried to fight me but I'm a landlord myself and know how to look up rental laws. They eventually backed off.

Lately privatized housing has gone the way of "fill at all costs" which means housing is first come first served and rank blind (even DOD employees and contractors can apply). This is fine I guess but we aren't paying O-5 BAH to live in the same house as someone paying E-3 BAH next door. Sorry. I'll pay market value - but if you're just taking the whole allowance and putting me in typical government housing I am going to go into town and spend my money wisely on either a nicer home, or a lesser home and pocket the difference.

The above, paired with the mold issues and other stories I've heard makes me stay far far away. It would take something really remarkable to get me to live in military housing ever again.

Responding to your comment about E3 and O5 paying the same amount. On our old base, it was still divided by officer and enlisted housing. Housing fixed officers housing right away. They were big and beautiful and enlisted got stuck with old, moldy housing where nothing ever got fixed. So I’m team, no more housing by rank.

[kpol]

May 1, 2019 21:18:01 GMT -5 dcn said:

Apr 30, 2019 15:57:55 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

We only lived in housing once and it was when my husband did a 12 month war college course and we figured it was easier to live in housing and have him walk to school than sign a 12 month lease in town and have him drive.

That was enough... Our home was old (1902) and had a leaky ceiling that was never addressed. They tried to charge us for carpet damages caused by the leak even though 1. they didn't fix the leak even though I reported it several times and 2. legally, the carpet was depreciated to a point where according to state law they couldn't charge me. So, yea. No. They tried to fight me but I'm a landlord myself and know how to look up rental laws. They eventually backed off.

Lately privatized housing has gone the way of "fill at all costs" which means housing is first come first served and rank blind (even DOD employees and contractors can apply). This is fine I guess but we aren't paying O-5 BAH to live in the same house as someone paying E-3 BAH next door. Sorry. I'll pay market value - but if you're just taking the whole allowance and putting me in typical government housing I am going to go into town and spend my money wisely on either a nicer home, or a lesser home and pocket the difference.

The above, paired with the mold issues and other stories I've heard makes me stay far far away. It would take something really remarkable to get me to live in military housing ever again.

I read recently that the housing you lived in is no longer offered to students - they're going to turn it into offices or something. Too expensive to actually fix the problems, and finally deemed unacceptable apparently.  



  

Here at Leavenworth (not sure if this is where you’re talking about), they say they won’t be putting families in the historic housing for the next group of CGSC students because of all the issues. I believe they are going to allow it to be geo bachelor housing with a roommate.

[Aquatica]

May 4, 2019 12:58:54 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Responding to your comment about E3 and O5 paying the same amount. On our old base, it was still divided by officer and enlisted housing. Housing fixed officers housing right away. They were big and beautiful and enlisted got stuck with old, moldy housing where nothing ever got fixed. So I’m team, no more housing by rank.

This. Same experience at the last base and even now at the current duty station overseas. Officers and certain ranks get a house in a special gated community on the base while the rest are put in apartment towers.

[calmcosmo]

May 6, 2019 3:56:17 GMT -5 Aquatica said:

May 4, 2019 12:58:54 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Responding to your comment about E3 and O5 paying the same amount. On our old base, it was still divided by officer and enlisted housing. Housing fixed officers housing right away. They were big and beautiful and enlisted got stuck with old, moldy housing where nothing ever got fixed. So I’m team, no more housing by rank.

This. Same experience at the last base and even now at the current duty station overseas. Officers and certain ranks get a house in a special gated community on the base while the rest are put in apartment towers.

I’m not sure what it’s like where we are now (Peterson AFB) because we live 30 min from base and I’ve only gone over there about 5 times in the 3 years we’ve been here.

Prior to this my husband was assigned to Point Mugu. Housing was rank blink except O6 and there are only three O6 types on Mugu (base CO, Two air wing commodores). Everyone else was first come, first served from E-1 to O-5. Some of the housing was nice off base, but bedrooms were based on family size - not how much BAH you were paying. On base the homes were very modest 1200 sq ft ranches. We took our money off base and rented a nice place for $700 under BAH.

I have never heard of housing giving a damn about rank. Like I posted, I can be your anecdotal Officer family that never got things fixed and was charged for crappy 10 year old carpet.

This thread is slowly turning into one of those officers have it easier urban legends. But as we approach our 8th move in 17 years with no notice orders (last time we got 3 weeks notice, right now they want him across the country in August and we still don’t have any paper orders) I can promise you they aren’t rolling out any red carpets. .

[calmcosmo]

May 6, 2019 3:56:17 GMT -5 Aquatica said:

May 4, 2019 12:58:54 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Responding to your comment about E3 and O5 paying the same amount. On our old base, it was still divided by officer and enlisted housing. Housing fixed officers housing right away. They were big and beautiful and enlisted got stuck with old, moldy housing where nothing ever got fixed. So I’m team, no more housing by rank.

This. Same experience at the last base and even now at the current duty station overseas. Officers and certain ranks get a house in a special gated community on the base while the rest are put in apartment towers.

I’m cool with “no more housing by rank” as long as we’re all paying the same thing.

[dcn]

Perhaps it’s a branch difference? H is Army and housing has always been divided up by rank at the 7 posts we have been to. 🤷‍♀️ I imagine it is different post to post and base to base.

[Aquatica]

May 12, 2019 21:21:11 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

I’m not sure what it’s like where we are now (Peterson AFB) because we live 30 min from base and I’ve only gone over there about 5 times in the 3 years we’ve been here.

Prior to this my husband was assigned to Point Mugu. Housing was rank blink except O6 and there are only three O6 types on Mugu (base CO, Two air wing commodores). Everyone else was first come, first served from E-1 to O-5. Some of the housing was nice off base, but bedrooms were based on family size - not how much BAH you were paying. On base the homes were very modest 1200 sq ft ranches. We took our money off base and rented a nice place for $700 under BAH.

I have never heard of housing giving a damn about rank. Like I posted, I can be your anecdotal Officer family that never got things fixed and was charged for crappy 10 year old carpet.

This thread is slowly turning into one of those officers have it easier urban legends. But as we approach our 8th move in 17 years with no notice orders (last time we got 3 weeks notice, right now they want him across the country in August and we still don’t have any paper orders) I can promise you they aren’t rolling out any red carpets. .

I didn't intent to come off as bashing or that officer's don't have the same housing issues. I apologize if I offend you.

H is Army so I can only speak from experience with that branch of housing. Housing is based on rank and then family size, at least at both bases I've been to so far. Rank dictates how much BAH you will get. Check out any Army housing pages and it will ask your sponsor's rank and then give you an estimate of what homes you qualify for. I left Carson a little over a year ago and we were there for 4 years--1 year off base and 3 years on base. I loved going to Peterson just to shop because the facilities were better than Carson (and right on my route to Target and Costco). I drove through Peterson housing and I thought it was gorgeous.

If you drive through Carson or even to the main gate where you can see housing, I lived in the old red brick townhomes. Housing there shows they don't care about families with the new housing they are building. They took away giving E5 families and below yards. The new housing for 3-5 bedrooms is landscaped with rocks and the "backyard" is a concrete slab in the back.

We could have moved but we had been there for 2 years at that point, H liked the convenience of being able to come home after PT and at lunch, and we were setting money aside since I was pregnant. H was told he was coming up on orders soon except for them to be pushed back due to a deployment.

I hope you're enjoying the area you're in. I loved it minus the hail, wind, and issues with housing.

[VillainV]

Air Force housing is by rank and family size. Technically they use a somewhat complicated formula using ages and genders of children to determine how many bedrooms are needed. They renovate cyclically, so which is most recently renovated depends on when you check. This year it might be enlisted housing that is the most newly renovated, but in 5 years it might be officer housing. I would say that the quality of housing and the finishes is usually the same, though enlisted housing tends to be a little bit smaller or have more communal space (ie: could be townhouses instead of duplexes, or duplexes instead of SFH).

My impression has been that as an officer I can find a newer/nicer/larger home in town for my BAH compared to what I’d get on base. Families with many children may benefit from being on base because they can get more bedrooms. I’ve heard from junior enlisted who I’ve worked with that they can generally get a nicer house on base because their housing allowance just doesn’t go that far off base.