Need advice/words of wisdom re: possible school change

[covergirl82]

Hoping you wise WPs can give me some advice/words of wisdom on possibly moving the kids to a different school next year. 

Here's the situation:  DS is really involved in sports, and has had the same group of friends pretty much all of elementary school (he's in 3rd grade this year).  DH and I have noticed, mostly over the end of 2nd grade and all of 3rd grade that DS seems to be left out of birthday parties and other activities with this group of friends.  We think it's more the parents than the kids doing it.  And we don't know why, except maybe these parents never got over high school popularity games, and DH and I are just not cool enough for them, or something.  DH is to the point he is one more situation of wanting to move our kids to a different school/school district.  We could probably do school of choice into the district just to the north of us (they have a bus that goes down the road that our street is off of, so I'm fairly sure that our kids could easily ride the bus for that option) or we could look into a charter school close by, but they do not bus and already held the enrollment lottery, so we'd have to get on a wait list.

Here's the deal, though...both kids would be devastated (at least at first, potentially for a while) if we moved them to a different school district.  DS has noticed a few instances of being left out, but I don't think he sees the whole picture, at least yet.  (Although last night when DH gave a ride to one of DS's friends to their basketball game last night, the friend mentioned that he's been to 20+ sleepovers, meanwhile, DS has never been invited to a single sleepover.  The only sleepovers he's had are the few we've had at our house.)  And we haven't had any issues with DD at our current school, so she would be so upset if we moved.  I almost feel like we'd need to physically move to a completely different area so that they don't have a constant reminder of the friends they are missing while they get acclimated to a new school and work on making friends.  And I love our house and where we live, and loathe the thought of moving.

Or do we hold out a few years and hope middle school is better for DS and hope he makes different friends because there will be more kids to choose from?

ETA:  We have a Christian school and a Catholic school close by, but we're not Catholic and not interested in our kids going to a Catholic school, and I honestly don't think the Christian school will be any different than our current experience (sorry to say, and we are Protestant Christian) and DH and I have no desire to rearrange our debt reduction goals to pay for K-12 education.

[k3am]

Because he wasn't invited to parties and activities of which your son hasn't really even realized he's being left out? Information gathered from kids is.. usually lopsided. DD (K) has been to at least 10 sleep overs. Not a single one was a school friend. So are you even sure it's this group of friends that's excluding him?

I'm sure that there are other details that you're leaving out that may have you leaning in that direction, but based on what you posted, I wouldn't make any changes.

I am not a fan of getting involved in stuff like this. Bullying? Risk of physical harm? Causing severe emotional stress? Absolutely. But from your description, it's the normal social stuff all kids deal with at one point or another. It's hard to see them struggle and be hurt, but smoothing the situation over for your kids doesn't help in the long run. Kids need to learn how to navigate these kind of social situations on their own - it's such an important life skill. Moving schools to avoid doing it doesn't give them the opportunity to do it now, when the consequences are pretty small.

[traveltheworld]

I can sympathize - for whatever reason, DS (Grade 1) hasn't been invited to a single birthday party or outing this year, and I know the rest of the kids in his school hang out socially. But to me, the key question is - does HE feel bad about the situation? If he is ok with it - either because he hasn't noticed or doesn't care, then I wouldn't move him. Even if he were upset with it, as long as it's not to a point where he starts hating going to school, I'd still leave the situation alone. It's incredibly hard to see your child left out, but that's a fact of life. And isn't there a possibility that as the kids age, they'd form their own friendships and be more proactive in inviting whoever they want to hang out with, so that the parental clique element would decrease?

[madringal]

I think switching schools because you think your kid may be being left out when he hasn't even really expressed that it is bothering him is a bit drastic. Who is to say that any kids at the new school will invite the new kid to parties? I say this as kindly as possible, but I think you guys might be projecting some self esteem issues on to your kid here.

In my experience, third grade is usually where bday parties stop including the whole class and parents tend to invite a few kids for more of an experience (the movies, laser tag, arcade).

[waverly]

I would move schools for a bullying issue that was ongoing and persistent and the school admin did nothing about.

I probably wouldn't move schools for a child being left out. It's a great learning experience for kids that friendships don't last forever, groups of friends move on for reason or even without a reason, that it is time for them to move on and make other friends as well.


After some friend drama that I had with close friends back in college and when DS was a baby, I have definitely embraced more of the lots of other friends are OK (besides the group), we will see you when we can, if you invite us great, if we invite you great, if not that's cool- we have this other fun thing that we planned. Requires more planning on my part to come up with cool activities as a family. And we are slowly getting sucked into a group, which I have been slightly resisting and slightly liking. I get the rejection part too. We all feel that, but realistically it's not possible to invite everyone to everything. My best friend and I growing up slept at each other's houses almost every weekend. In a way it was way too much, but yeah I could say I had 20 sleepovers but only with 1 person. So that info could be skewed. I mean is everyone else at the sleepovers and birthday parties? Or are they inviting 1-2 friends each, and your DS is just not BFs with them.

I might try a bit of social engineering to either see very casually what is really happening.  Or social engineer a new friend for him outside of the group.  And by social engineer I really just mean have him ask 1 kid or you ask 1 kids mom if they want to hang out and see what happens (outside of the group/ not part of the group). 

ETA- How big is his school?  Number of classes/ class size?  We have a very big school with all kids together from the entire town.  6 classes of 20+ students for each grade, so I do feel like in a bigger school if 1,2, 3 friends etc don't work out, we still have like 50 more people to befriend.  So that helps.  I don't think I could deal with a town that small where there is only 20 kids of that age.  It's not a big town, just every consolidated into 1 school rather than 2-3 schools. 

[waverly]

I also read an article, I can't find it now, but that there are 5 phases of friendship. School, college, early working life, parent friends, retirement.

I bet that could be extrapolated into the school years somehow like early elementary school age/ pre-school, late school age, middle school friends, high school friends. My kids friends change somewhat yearly due to who they are in class with because it is such a big school that kids are usually in with different kids every year.

I'm trying the GS motto of make new friends but keep the old.  Some of the pre-school friends have already faded away for DD, but those that are interested in sticking around, I try to keep while she makes K friends. 

[ECB]

I’m actually almost speechless at this whole thing.  Because your one child isn’t as included as you think other kids are, you want to totally upheave your entire lives, including your other child who doesn’t have these issues, in the hopes that this won’t happen at a new school??

And of the MILLIONS of what ifs that exist, the simplest of what ifs is what if your DS does find a better group of friends but your DD doesn’t?  Are you going to move again for her??

Seriously- this is really an extreme reaction to a situation that you really don’t even know the full ins and outs of.  You’re making some big assumptions (that it’s even about you and your DH, which may not even be close to the case) here and... IDK.  

I get the feeling of wanting to create the best life for your kids, but as your DS doesn’t seem too phased by this- I woudln’t be moving over this.  And even if he does realize it- there is a lesson here for him too.  There is stuff that DS hasnt been invited too and I try to use it as a learning moment about how friendships work, how we can’t always be invited to everything, etc.  

As others said, if this was an issue of bullying, that’s one thing.  Just not being popular/ included (and relatively unaware of it) isnt a reason to move.  

[ECB]

I’m also going to add- no parent ever wants to think that their kid isn’t “perfect”. But some of this could even be your son. IT’s hard to be objective here, but if you can take a step back and try to be objective, is there any chance there is behavior on your sons part that maybe these other kids don’t want to be around?

I think we could all share stories on this front, but DS has a friend that is an overall good kid, but there have been a couple incidences recently where DS has been really upset by him (he’s been rude to DS and has refused to let DS play a game with him when DS was spending the night). We might see him and his mom tomorrow and DS was very much like “Oh... I don’t know that I want to see him”.

In this situaiton, it’s nothing over the top and I don’t know that I really expect the mom to realize that some of her son’s behaviors are a turn off to DS.

But I’ve seen other parents whose kids actually have more serious behavioral issues and truly have blinders on about it.

This is just food for thought. Obviously I don’t know you or your son. Maybe it is all theother parents just being jerks. But... I think you need to look at all aspects of this.

[xctsclrx]

I see everyone else has said what I was going to say.


I would not move him. He is in 3rd grade and hasn't found his group yet. Encourage him to make friends outside of the sports groups. Let him find his friends. It is a good learning experience for him.

[librarychica]

I would not even consider moving my children over this. Friendships come and go. They evolve. By next year he could have new friends, have reconnected with the old friends, etc. I would not assume that events have anything to do with you and, honestly, I would take a big step back from my kid’s school-related social life.

[186momx]

Another vote of not to move. I will say that DD hasn't been invited to 1 birthday party this year in 2nd grade. She has told me about parties for M or A or B and that she could come but we never got an invite. She knows they happen and the kids talk about it and it doesn't seem to phase her. DD also tends to hang out with kids not in her grade level so the friendships evolve thing really is true. Now if DD was coming home sobbing every day because M, A, and B were talking about sleepovers with DD right there and then telling her she can't go I would be talking with the teacher and counselor about adding in some social skills into class and also asking DD if she really feels like M, A and B are really her friends.

Most of DD's friends outside of school are skipping the birthday parties this year and doing experiences instead. O is going to the NCAA women's basketball meet during spring break instead of having a party. We are taking DD to Seattle for her birthday after school gets out (June b-day) instead of a party.

[justcheckingin73]

Have you ever volunteered in his classroom? I ask because I sometimes worry about DS. He doesn’t have the friend group that DD had and my head will spin with worry that no one likes him/he has no friends/he’s being bullied. Then I help out at a class party and I’m able to see how he interacts with his classmates and how they interact with him. It always puts my mind at ease. 

Also, as a former military brat that never lived anywhere longer than 3 years, I can see changing schools from both sides. On the one hand, changing schools isn’t a big deal, it’s not the end of the world, you find new friends and life goes on. On the other hand, if I didn’t have to move and make new friends (which is really hard when you’re shy and socially awkward), I wouldn’t. Interesting side note, I also learned that if something or someone was bothering me, I’d just wait it out because I knew I’d move eventually and it wouldn’t be an issue anymore. I never learned to confront issues or people.

I probably would not switch schools for the reasons you gave. Are there any parents that you can talk to or is it all a clique?

[waverly]

186momx, and with that in 1st grade a kid was talking about his birthday party and inviting DS. Invitation never came. He was talking about it in Oct. Turns out his birthday is in April or May and they were never having a party anyway ha ha. So still some unreliable narrator situations from the kids.

[sunbutter]

There must be more to this story than birthday parties. I would not consider moving my happy kids over this.

Have you recently coordinated a play date with any of his friends? How are you fostering the relationships?

I think volunteering at school would be very informative and maybe put your mind at ease.

My son is older and in a small class. There are six boys and in the beginning all would be invited to every thing. Overtime, some families stopped inviting one kid in particular because of his difficult behavior. We all still care about him but he can be a challenge and sometimes really upsets the other kids.
I didn’t follow this trend and had him at my son’s birthday last year which was a sleepover at a museum. He was a huge handful, hit one kid, got mouthy with me and made my kid cry. I still care about him and his family but he can be a pain in the ass!

[mommyatty]

If DS hasn’t noticed or doesn’t care, I would leave it. And I would be very careful not to send the message to your son that he’s being excluded. My mom is a professional martyr. She loved to point out constantly how my dad’s parents favored the grandkids who lived near them and not us. It never bothered me until my mom pointed it out like a constant drum beat.

If he was noticing, unlike many, I would consider switching schools over it. Purposeful, pervasive exclusion is harmful and a form of bullying. But it sounds like he’s not being shunned or excluded at school. And he’s too little for this to be a kids’ social media issue.

If there’s a less-obnoxious parent in the group, you could ask what’s up. Maybe it’s something that can be addressed. Maybe it’s not. But then at least you’d know.

[rere]

I wouldn't move, but I will admit, it is very tempting to think about when you are frustrated. We live in a small town, right outside of a somewhat urban area. It can be very cliquey, but it is usually the parents not the kids. Dh and I sometimes daydream about packing up and moving to the beach and starting over when we see the high school shenanigans but we won't until we retire. The kids would never want to leave.

[waverly]

covergirl82- is there more to this story?

[abs]

I mean, I get it. DD has had a really hard year. She's in 2nd grade and this is the first year she hasn't found a group of friends. She definitely feels like an outsider and honestly she is. However, it's just the make up of the class. There is a group of girls in there that have known each other since preschool and they rule the class. Even the teachers know that they are way too cliquey bordering on mean. (You can sit with us today. Oh, today you can't because you aren't wearing a bow. You are out of the club. Petty crap like that all day long.) She pretty much hangs out with the boys because they are nicer but she has missed having a good female friend in class. Next year should be better. In the mean time she has friends from other classes she can have play dates with and she has her core group of soccer friends that she sees every weekend. Sure, there are some days where I fantasize about moving to another house in the neighborhood so she can go to school with her best friend but I would never actually do that. Social issues aren't going to get any easier and moving away isn't going to give your child problem solving skills. Unless there is more to the story than you are telling us I would just give him tools to cope and try to plan play dates so he can develop a closer relationship with someone in his class. Also, friendships change over time. He may not be clicking with that group of boys anymore and that is okay. As long as he is happy let it be.

[campermom]

I’d never pull my kids for something like this. IF he is struggling over this, which it doesn’t sound like he is...I’d work on ways to Build Resilience rather than moving away from a problem. This is so he can learn how to react when there’s is a large problem.

This is an opportunity for you to teach him how to be a good friend and what makes a good friend.

[erbear]

Do not move your kids if they are happy. It sounds like this is your and your husband's baggage. Do not make it your kids'.

[divanerd]

I know it may be upsetting to you and hubby. If your child has not noticed things are ok.

Moving schools for just uninvited parties may be extreme

[mustardseed2007]

All the advice is here but I want to acknowledge that I'm sure this is more than just missed invitations. On the other hand you say your kids would be upset to move, so I wouldn't.

[covergirl82]

Thanks everyone, I needed some balanced perspectives. It's more the kinds of parents we've encountered, who play popularity games (which results in missed invitations for DS) and also school district/small-town politics. (For example, as DS gets older, I worry that he'll be passed over for sports teams (and sports is really important to him) because we're not on the "in" crowd, and we've heard from a few other people that has happened to their kid(s).) Moving would be more so to get away from the parents (and political BS), but I'm guessing those kind of parents (and politics) exist anywhere/everywhere.

[mustardseed2007]

covergirl82, I'm sympathetic. I wish we lived in a different neighborhood because I THINK other schools in our area are not as bad as our school when it comes to politics. This was confirmed by a mom friend of mine that I really respect who toured elementary schools in our area and put ours at the bottom of her list because of the parents. We both agree on which schools are more normal.

I've got DS in a private school right now because of other issues associated with learning and noping out of all that politics is an added benefit. On the other hand, we are also disconnected from the positive aspects of the network of neighbors with kids around us.

Moving has definitely crossed my mind but it seems like a massive undertaking for us right now.

[abs]

Mar 18, 2019 9:34:43 GMT -5 covergirl82 said:

Thanks everyone, I needed some balanced perspectives. It's more the kinds of parents we've encountered, who play popularity games (which results in missed invitations for DS) and also school district/small-town politics. (For example, as DS gets older, I worry that he'll be passed over for sports teams (and sports is really important to him) because we're not on the "in" crowd, and we've heard from a few other people that has happened to their kid(s).) Moving would be more so to get away from the parents (and political BS), but I'm guessing those kind of parents (and politics) exist anywhere/everywhere.

I 100% guarantee that manipulative parents are at every school and so is social engineering. I’m sure it is worse at some schools than others but it’s everywhere.

[2chatter]

FWIW I would come at this a little differently. As a parent who worries about NOT social engineering, but who has been accused of it many times (comments like “you and your group” or to DS “you and your little buddies, the in crowd” or about DD “I’ve never seen a more popular kid - she’s like a magnet. How did you make that happen?”) one of the key things to me is interest. I’ve tried to invite a few other kids to join things and they decline. Then complain. Others I just totally don’t know their parents and I am overwhelmed and DS doesn’t bring me phone numbers and it’s too hard. If someone reached out to do something with DS I would be ALL over it. DS made his little best friends at age 2-3 then added a few at 5. There is always room for more - so I would invite some of the boys to do things with DS, then they have your info and may include him
More. I’d also invite OTHER boys DS hasn’t been social with and help him cultivate some deeper reciprocal friendships there.

With DD there is a social engineering mom (for real - things like breaking her own rules to enable her daughter to hang out with “the right kids”) and she intentionally excludes DD. That mom said to a mutual friend “DD gets to do enough - no reason for us to include her too”. It really hurts DD when 15 of her friends go to a spa party at this girls’ house and DD isn’t invited. So...I flipped it and DD invites her daughter to do things. She’s old enough to see the issue and rise above it. But it doesn’t suck any less. The key for me was that DD was fine. Her friendship with that girl is fine. I’m a little ragey sometimes, but working on it.

I have one introvert and two super social kids. That’s just how they came out. I hate the parent politics. But you will encounter it anywhere.

[sdlaura]

covergirl82, I know we as parents all have the desire to make things easier for our kids, so this isn't directed at you, but this conversation reminded me of an article in the NY Times yesterday about "snow plow parents" who want to clear hardships out of the way for our kids.

www.nytimes.com/2019/03/16/style/snowplow-parenting-scandal.html

[waverly]

I am not saying you are refusing invitations, but 2chatter is right on how the groups form. I think they didn't tell us hey you need to select our scout group. I should have known that but I was a bit clueless. But everything else we didn't know about or declined. Didn't play soccer because DS was in Physical therapy. Once we started playing the sports, they were more inclusive. I should probably select their kid on sports teams and do all that, but I was again kind of clueless and it wasn't like they were his besties. It was his good friend and friends of friends rather than his group he was the center of. But whatever, we are all running into each other now. We are a group (ish) kind of now, but I am also fine being a bit on the periphery as well especially since one of the moms seems competitive and insecure. I do like the others, but we definitely are looking for friends outside the group as well.  So I think some of it is being proactive in saying hey my kids wants to be on the team with your kid lets request that.  From the person putting together the teams in our town for baseball, some of the moms say I want my kid together and another mom saying I don't on the request form, so that is everywhere.

I think for the sports teams you have to be pro-active. I don't think you have to be on a team with all his friends, but can he still play in the league probably. And if there are good coaches, then they will balance teams anyway. If you think high school sports, then that is something else entirely. With the travel leagues and pay to play, I fully expect DS to not be on any high school teams since we are not planning on traveling. I am not down the road for travel at all in the slightest, but my basic idea from observation, at least at the age that DS is at 8, is that most kids that try out make it because they want your money. Again, not sure if that is true when there is more of a skill divide at the older ages. Might be less going on in your area, but there are a lot of choices for leagues and teams around here especially yes because youth sports has become a multi million dollar industry, but I think it is possible that you might find another team, league, or travel group to be a better fit later on than the group he grew up playing with. So it might mean moving a town over like @mae01111 had to do sometimes for rec. But I don't think that means he has to move schools unless you are bent on him playing HS sports for the school.  Like I said, my thought for my DS is that if we aren't spending tons of time and $$$ to get him on that team, it's probably not going to happen and HS has changed that way, so it won't happen at all the high schools not just ours. 


ETA- Also, I think they try to keep their group organized, but it is actually super sporadic.  Like 2 dads coach this sport, 2 dads this one.  One dad thinks someone is coaching with him, and they aren't.  Someone is doing travel soccer, invites them for soccer skills, but they don't want to do games.  1 is doing lacross.  3 are doing baseball, no one is on the same team.  Someone asked someone else to be on their team not part of their group.  Nothing is set in stone, everything is in flux/ flow.  They seem organized from the outside like look at these 3 boys with dads all coaching and being together, but there are cracks in the fascade, and from the inside they are not organized at all.  There is a bit of a power struggle too.  Not saying it isn't nice, because it is, but there is something to be said for having both independence and participating or not participating and observing.  

[2chatter]

And on the sports thing ... we have a giant district with huge (2k) graduating classes. I was worried. It’s not like a small town where any kid with any athletic ability plays multiple sports, but DD played school ball and never played club. Middle’s soccer coach only does rec and he has U19 players on the school team. It’s crazy competitive, and middle isn’t training hard enough to make it at this point. But if it’s what she wanted, she would. At least here there are so many clubs the school coaches would be morons to play favorites - they truly have to choose the best athletes. They want their team to win and truly don’t care who has played together since first grade or whatever.

[waverly]

I also wanted to add that I am from MI originally. And there are absolutely some suburban towns I would not want to live in because I consider them to be snobby, entitled etc. There are not that many, but there are definitely a few on the list that are complete no gos for us. And a few that are just not our style.