I think I like, or at least am okay with, where all the main characters ended up, but the writers didn’t quite do enough to make me feel like all of the storylines made sense in getting there. Primarily, I agree with PPs that there needed to be SOME explanation about why Jon’s claim to the throne was dismissed, notwithstanding the fact that he didn’t want it and that he was being held prisoner. It could have literally been a two- line dialogue at the lords’ council and I think that would have made the entire thing feel more wrapped up to me.
It goes right along with the other skips, jumps, and black holes in the writing.
Finding out who Jon's mother (and subsequently father) are were a HUGE deal. It was apparently a big enough deal to trash his relationship with Dany, setting off a series of events that ended with her demise and her taking out a good portion of King's Landing with her. You're right, Bran and Sam could have shared two lines about, "Well give he's the last Targaryen and had a bigger claim to the throne than she did, executing him doesn't make sense when he was stopping her before she roasted the rest of Westeros." Boom. Done.
Arya spent how many seasons learning how to be a killer? She stole faces! She ended the Frey house! The faceless men were totes cool with her walking off with some faces and never coming back?
The build up to The Night King being the ultimate "big bad" and getting axed in one episode was nuts. There was no real backstory, they spent all this time dropping hints and symbols (like the spirals) only to have them not matter. I'm guessing it may get answered in one of the prequels but still...
Where did Meera Reed go after returning home? Her father also knew about Jon's heritage since he was at the Tower of Joy with Ned. They could have woven back in with Bran and Jon's arcs.
Post by DesertMoon on May 19, 2019 23:40:43 GMT -5
Also I think jon ONLY killed Dany so save his sisters. Tyrion said sansa doesnt want dany as queen and jon said it's not up to her to decide and when dany was talking about the people and jon asked what if people have a different vision she said it's not up to them to decide I think it registered to him that his sisters would be killed along with so many more. Jon was IMO weak until it came to his family. He would have gladly stayed with dany of his sisters were not on the chopping block.
That's 2 women jon loved dying in his arms. Do not date jon snow or you in danger girl.
Also I think jon ONLY killed Dany so save his sisters. Tyrion said sansa doesnt want dany as queen and jon said it's not up to her to decide and when dany was talking about the people and jon asked what if people have a different vision she said it's not up to them to decide I think it registered to him that his sisters would be killed along with so many more. Jon was IMO weak until it came to his family. He would have gladly stayed with dany of his sisters were not on the chopping block.
Bran who? That was my first reaction. On second blush, Dany says she knows what’s good, and that also echoes back to his convo with Tyrion.
Post by DesertMoon on May 19, 2019 23:51:38 GMT -5
The lord of light must have wanted bran on the throne since he kept people alive just to protect arya to kill the NK right before he killed Bran and resurrected jon snow to kill dany to put bran on the throne.
Hmmm. I thought Tyrion was going on about how stories bring people together and said something like, "Who has a better story than ... Bran the Broken?" and then went into his summary as his first justification for choosing Bran, and then mentioned that he knows all the stories, too. I mean ... well ... he was missing for a whole season and people hardly noticed, lol. Still disagree that he had the best story!
But assuming that the series writers were faithful to how GRRM told them things would end/who'd end up on the throne, I also think that an author putting "the one who knows all of the stories" on the throne at the end is Mary Sue territory, and/or so self-referential that it kind of ruins it for me.
I’m not saying Bran bad the best story. There’s been a lot of talk about Bran knowing all of the history pst and future 🤷🏼♀️, just my take on it.
Sorry, I meant more that I was disagreeing with Tyrion that no one had a better story than Bran.
I have way too many criticisms of the tv show writing. But if this is the ending GRRM envisioned for the book series, I'm very happy and I sincerely hope he finishes writing the rest of the books so that we go can through each character's journey.
Bran getting the throne just feels weird to me, but I loved the endings for Arya and Queen in the North Sansa. Jon's ending to go north of the wall with the wildlings and with Ghost is good for him, and not unexpected. I expected Dany to die, and it was touching to see Drogon's reaction; I thought for sure he was going to eat or roast Jon. I was really surprised Tyrion survived. Loved Sansa telling Edmure to go sit down. LOL!
I'm not clear who all the people were at the meeting of the lords and ladies where they selected Bran. Who was the guy between Samwell and Edmure supposed to be? Who was the other guy with Robin Arryn and Lord Royce?
Post by karinothing on May 20, 2019 5:29:01 GMT -5
Now that I slept on it I have thoughts ha ha. I don't like how there is a jump from Jon killing Dany to the council. How much time had passed? Kings landing apparently seemed fine at that point? They managed to rebuild everything? Or a lot of things? And the town was repopulated?
And how did they find out Jon killed Dany? I guess he told them? Greyworm didn't want to kill him right away? Why does Greyworm just get to call all the shots once his leader died anyway? Then they basically let a prisoner crown the new king?
Also, what happened to the Dothraki? Are they just living in kings landing now?
Since Sansa is a leader in her own right couldn't she just have pardoned Jon? The unsullied left. How would the even know? I guess Yara would know and she was mad at Jon.
Also Sansa asked the North to be free. Weren't Iron Born independent too? Now they aren't? The other lands didn't want to be free too?
Oh and ditto everyone else about Jon's true name. I can not believe that is not a bigger part of the story.
Oh on more. Are the unsullied immune to butterfly fever or are they going to all die in Naath?
Post by happyholiday on May 20, 2019 6:48:27 GMT -5
Well, given the compressed season and seeming lack of fucks given by D&D, that was probably the best we could hope for. I was worried about Jon for a minute, he was defending Dany so hard it was like he was in a cult. Also, who knew the Dothraki could multiply like Gremlins? And when Bran said he was going to try to locate Drogon during the meeting and then said “I’ll leave you to it” I legit thought he was going to roll back his eyes and warg right there. Ultimately I’m sad it’s over and left with a lingering dissatisfaction. Happy about Arya and Sansa, though.
I was JUST thinking this, he killed with no witnesses, and the dragon took off with her body. Plus that fresh molten throne.
i was thinking about that! “Dead? What do you mean? If i killed her, where’s the body? She’s craxy - you saw what she did. She flew off with drogon! Yeah, thats what happened”.
Post by sapphireblue on May 20, 2019 7:26:50 GMT -5
Overall I am happy with the ending. I am glad that Tyrion lived, especially glad about Sansa and Arya's endings, and pretty happy with Jon going off with the wildlings.
I had just been having a little rant about how Jon was so dumb and he should be telling Dany what she wants to hear and saying he'll be with her so he can protect his sisters better and kill Dany when necessary but he was too good and open to be that strategic, and then he killed her!
I was sort of surprised that part of it was all over so quickly. Like, then that was it in the episode for people dying and it was so short. However, I loved Samwell trying for a democracy and overall the new structure is exciting. I do agree I would have been happier with someone else being King or Queen, like Tyrion or Samwell?
I overall am happy with the ending. I was a little surprised it was a "happy" ending, but I'm also ok with it because most of our beloved characters ended up alive and happy, and I can't be mad about that.
I am not hating the concept of Bran being on the throne, but I wish they had played his character differently. He is so flat and boring and hard to root for. It makes a lot of sense for his storyline to have him end up there (thank GOODNESS his storyline had a point!) but he was also the remaining character I cared about the least of everyone (except Gilly, she is annoying too) so that's a little bit of a bummer.
I too can't believe Yara didn't say "hey, we want to be independent too!". I mean a whole storyline was about how she wanted to be queen of the iron islands. Now she's totes cool serving a creepy staring relative stranger?
I also was satisfied with the ending. I mainly cared about Sansa, Arya and Brienne and they are going to thrive in the new world. I loved the fast forward to the meeting of the minds when the all decided to elect Bran.
After it was done I said to H “Okay I want to talk about why I loved it before I get on the internet and have to read how everyone hated it.” LOL
I haven’t read any of the comments here, but I have some THOUGHTS that I need to get off my chest.
1) WHAT IN THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THE NIGHT’S WATCH? Like you gotta explain that shit.
2) What happened to the Dothraki?
3) If Greyworm is the one who wanted Jon dead and Greyworm is headed back to Naath and the North is independent, why does Jon not just go chill in the North?
4) Who has the most compelling story? IDK, maybe the LADY WHO KILLED THE GODDAMNED NIGHT KING!
5) I am SO HOPPING MAD about how they ruined Brienne’s character this season. You take the most badass woman of Westeros and turn her into a weeping mess over Mr. Sister Fucker?
5) Bran the Broken. Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME with that shit? They could have come up with a better name. People with disabilities aren’t broken.
6) Jon killing Dany and Sansa being crowned Queen in the North were the only satisfying parts.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
At first blush I was really annoyed by that whole take the black thing. But I think they basically pulled one over on Greyworm. The nights watch has no purpose now and the person who would enforce Jon’s sentence if he didn’t stay there is Sansa which lol. So basically Jon and Sansa both fucked off to the north and can do whatever they want. Sansa as queen of the north and Jon as a king beyond the wall like Mance or just living as a free folk.
My big complaints are: so no one else wants their own kingdom? I don’t buy it. Both Dorne and the Iron Islands would demand the same. Guaranteed. Jon/Dany’s love story. That shit fell flat from moment 1 until he killed her. I might have been into the tragedy of that tale if I ever bought their love story. Instead it always sucked to me and never made any damn sense.
I was JUST thinking this, he killed with no witnesses, and the dragon took off with her body. Plus that fresh molten throne.
I am 1000% sure that Jon confessed. He's such a prat, no way he kept his mouth shut. First thing he probably did was go show Greyworm the blood on his hands and sulk about how "he never wanted this".
I really did used to love Jon Snow but the past two seasons have made it hard to even root for the dope. My previous affection makes me happy enough with his ending since it seems like it fits his need to be an emo baby. I wonder if GRRM ever finishes the books if Jon will be such a brat?
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Dany never actually sat down on the throne, did she? She just touched it?
I knew that Drogon had a special connection to her and thus knew when she died and how to find her but I was really surprised that he understood that the throne was the reason for her demise and then he torched it. I assume a smart dragon is how it was forged in the first place though huh?
I was really surprised that she was all lovey dovey towards Jon, trying to convince him to just embrace their destiny as a Targ power couple. I thought after he rejected her in the previous episode that she was over him and he was not long for this world.
I love Sansa as queen of the North, but do you think she will just reign as a single lady all her life or eventually take a husband and have babies that can take over the throne when she dies? Who else would there be?
I really enjoyed the finale overall but my biggest complaint about it (and about multiple episodes this season) is that they seemed to spend SO MUCH TIME with characters just slooooooowly walking somewhere with no dialogue and just some music in the background, or no sound at all. Tyrion at the beginning of this episode, Arya last episode, etc. It felt lazy. Like instead of having more stuff happen or more dialogue in these supersized episodes they just added all these loooooong quiet walks.
karinothing , @angryharpy , In the scene where Jon walks to the boat, you can see Dothraki walking near and onto boats. So my assumption is that they went back home
I'm guessing Jon fessed up, or a soldier walked up and saw him carrying a bloody sword? They couldn't have been too far away from her. I even asked H why she didn't have a guard with her when she was walking near the throne.
Overall I enjoyed the ending, but they did need more time to explain how they got there. Bran is the one who started this whole story. So he has importance. I do think his character was neglected for the last few seasons.
Jon's ending makes sense. His lineage didn't matter, he didn't want to be king. Him being king would have continued the wheel, one person taking over after killing the other. Think back to when he was with Ygritte, he would have been happy living in his love cave. There is no need for a night's watch.
the night's watch thing- was it all a ruse to fool Greyworm? They were all "there will always be criminals and misfits we have to send somewhere" (hi, how about life in prison? Like build a prison?) and it was unclear to me if Jon was just being sent to the Night's Watch or if he was being sent to be the new Lord Commander of it....if he wasn't, who was?
and I also assume the Dothraki went home because all the women and children Dothraki were still there.