Well, that’s the thing. WE know and we know a handful of people there know but I guess for history’s sake, we don’t know if “it is known” by the general public.
That was a HUGE story line from the beginning, for it to just be kept quiet at the end.
I didn’t want him on the throne, but at least let him be known by his true name and not the bastard.
I kind of assumed he would just go back to bring Jon Snow. He knows he’s not a bastard, so he doesn’t have that chip on his shoulder, but it’s also a connection to his past and is definitely a lot less ostentatious than Aegon Targaryan, 6th of his name.
That’s fine. I didn’t expect him to use his real name anyway. But I feel like there was a whole lot of investment in that particular secret, by the audience, for it to just not matter in the end.
Jon’s definitely leaving with the Wildlings and his dog to go live north of the wall. That and Jon killing Dany were my two predictions that came true.
Ok so I’m not crazy. Then why with the “you can visit me at castle black” thing?
I don’t think he knew he’d be doing that at first. I think he honestly made the decision when he turned around and saw them closing the gates.
Post by fuckyourcouch on May 19, 2019 22:20:40 GMT -5
I guess I’m mostly pissed at the 3,473 plot holes and missing plot points. Where did a whole new group of Dothraki come from? What was the point of an entire storyline of Arya being faceless? What was the point of building up to a battle with the undead for it to last 30 min and not even be the main point of the season storyline? Why was there so much emphasis on the prophecy of Arya killing a green eyed person? Why did we spend 7 seasons of Jaime redeeming himself to become a jackass at the end? If Jaime and Cersei moved the left 2 ft they would have survived? Why did the guy who was a side character who did absolutely nothing but sit there and be creepy the entire show become king? Are we supposed to believe that the other kingdoms would just be like “oh yeah that’s fine about Sansa, but we will just fall in line under another Stark after just fighting to the death for the throne, nbd”
Edmure hasn’t been heard from on the show since the red wedding, right? Or has he been mentioned?
He was in an episode in season...6 maybe? The one where Jamie has to go retake Riverrun because the Freys are worthless and the Blackfish took his castle back. He has a hostile chat with Edmure and they march him out to the drawbridge and he commands the garrison to surrender to the Lannisters, since he is the heir to riverrun they listen and he gets sent back to his prison cell until tonight.
Post by simpsongal on May 19, 2019 22:49:24 GMT -5
I wish they could have used drogon to sew up power at the end. Either Jon having some control over him or bran warging into him. So even though everyone was signing up for peace there were some teeth behind those in power.
And the slight to leave Tyrion out of the book just seems dumb given the role he played.
When Brienne was flipping through the book of commanders of the kingsguard and then finished Jaime's entry I had, "who lives who dies who tells your stooooory" go through my head.
Post by lissaholly on May 19, 2019 22:56:32 GMT -5
I don’t know the point of Jon’s heritage. That’s the main thing that bugs me. He wasn’t a bastard and so. . .? His ending was fit for a bastard.
That said, I love Bran as king. Aside from picking a eunuch, how do you ensure that King doesn’t pass down his throne? How do you pick a leader who is altruistic? He’s the untraditional pick to break the wheel. Arya always wanted more, and she is on her way to find it. I looked at that map every opening and wondered what was beyond it ( as I am sure a lot of people did) I’m so glad Arya is the one to think outside the box. Sansa always wanted to be Queen and she spent most of her late childhood trying to get back to Winterfell. Glad to see both things come back to her.
I love that Jon killed Dany. I love that her Dragon knew why.
I am happy with the ending, other than Jon’s heritage.
I guess I’m mostly pissed at the 3,473 plot holes and missing plot points. Where did a whole new group of Dothraki come from? What was the point of an entire storyline of Arya being faceless? What was the point of building up to a battle with the undead for it to last 30 min and not even be the main point of the season storyline? Why was there so much emphasis on the prophecy of Arya killing a green eyed person? Why did we spend 7 seasons of Jaime redeeming himself to become a jackass at the end? If Jaime and Cersei moved the left 2 ft they would have survived? Why did the guy who was a side character who did absolutely nothing but sit there and be creepy the entire show become king? Are we supposed to believe that the other kingdoms would just be like “oh yeah that’s fine about Sansa, but we will just fall in line under another Stark after just fighting to the death for the throne, nbd”
Etc.
I think that in the books, Littlefinger's eyes are green-ish. Like gray-green, maybe? I've seen some theories that he was actually the third piece of the eyes puzzle.
Which I think is nice symbolism. Arya kills the Freys for revenge, kills Littlefinger as his executioner, and kills the NK as a hero. Between the three of them, they show all of the things she is willing/able to do. And in the end, she also shows herself capable of turning away from death (in the case of trying to kill Cersei) and attempting to save lives instead of take them.
The rest seems to have some holes lol but whatever. She’s been my fave since day 1 and I love her. This season needed more Sansa honestly.
I still think the wall and nights watch thing is weird because it’s unnecessary but Jon basically gets to be free because of it. And because Greyworm left. It was like lolokay we need to appease him but not really! Just kidding.
I guess I’m mostly pissed at the 3,473 plot holes and missing plot points. Where did a whole new group of Dothraki come from? What was the point of an entire storyline of Arya being faceless? What was the point of building up to a battle with the undead for it to last 30 min and not even be the main point of the season storyline? Why was there so much emphasis on the prophecy of Arya killing a green eyed person? Why did we spend 7 seasons of Jaime redeeming himself to become a jackass at the end? If Jaime and Cersei moved the left 2 ft they would have survived? Why did the guy who was a side character who did absolutely nothing but sit there and be creepy the entire show become king? Are we supposed to believe that the other kingdoms would just be like “oh yeah that’s fine about Sansa, but we will just fall in line under another Stark after just fighting to the death for the throne, nbd”
Etc.
I think that in the books, Littlefinger's eyes are green-ish. Like gray-green, maybe? I've seen some theories that he was actually the third piece of the eyes puzzle.
Which I think is nice symbolism. Arya kills the Freys for revenge, kills Littlefinger as his executioner, and kills the NK as a hero. Between the three of them, they show all of the things she is willing/able to do. And in the end, she also shows herself capable of turning away from death (in the case of trying to kill Cersei) and attempting to save lives instead of take them.
I think you’re right about the eyes, but Mel and Arya never meet in the books. That was a show prophecy that was supposed to be about her time as an assassin but was retconned later, which is why the order and emphasis changed.
Post by suburbanzookeeper on May 19, 2019 23:15:32 GMT -5
I was a bit torqued that Dany asked Jon to rule by her side in the throne room - like the discussion of marriage or partnership could have come up between the two of them (like it did with their advisors earlier in the season) so much earlier and could have prevented so many things.
Post by DesertMoon on May 19, 2019 23:20:16 GMT -5
I felt like bran knew the nights watch was dead and was all wink wink nod nod oh ya totally jon is going to the nights watch to never have property or father children and if he does ..ofcoarse the queen in the north will execute him swiftly...go on grey worm to naath enjoy. The nights watch was to protect from the wildlings and the wildlings are now loyal to the north and allies. So...night watch is bullshit. It's off on parole and the wildlings see jon snow as king in the north.
Also if memory serves Tormund invited jon snow to come north of the wall with him and jon said he wished he could. Dont quote me on that though. Not sure.
Post by lissaholly on May 19, 2019 23:20:32 GMT -5
I also think it’s significant that the Stark children all end the series single. In a time when marriage was a power play and for two of the main characters to be “ Ladies” and meet their “ destinies” without male partners. I am pleased.
Well, that's about the mixed bag that I thought it would be. Loved the ending for Sansa and Arya and liked it for most of the supporting characters. Even Jon's fate made sense -- and Ghost is the BEST BOY. But Bran ending up as king just felt really forced, like a writer's choice versus a natural conclusion to all of this.
During Tyrion's grand speech about stories, I'm looking around, thinking, well, a huge number of the people here have really compelling stories about what they survived and how strong and smart they are and what good leaders they are/have been. Bran's is not the one I would've chosen as the "well, what can beat this, and we should all fall in line!!" That felt contrived. And I really can't believe that everyone -- especially Dorne and the Iron Islands -- would've sat there and said nothing while the North gets to be an independent kingdom and not argued for the same for themselves.
I laughed at Sansa shooting down Edmure.
Honestly, I can deal with Branbot on the throne. I think it's meh, but whatever. But would it really have killed them to cut, like, 15 seconds of the interminable, lingering shots of Tyrion's face in this episode and instead let Brienne start her own page in the book of the Kings Guard?
I groaned at the book call-out. Ripped right from LOTR. Nice.
DH was like, "I should have stopped watching after the battle of Winterfell." LOL.
I may be misreading, but I don’t think it’s Bran’s particular story, but that he knows *all* of the stories.
Hmmm. I thought Tyrion was going on about how stories bring people together and said something like, "Who has a better story than ... Bran the Broken?" and then went into his summary as his first justification for choosing Bran, and then mentioned that he knows all the stories, too. I mean ... well ... he was missing for a whole season and people hardly noticed, lol. Still disagree that he had the best story!
But assuming that the series writers were faithful to how GRRM told them things would end/who'd end up on the throne, I also think that an author putting "the one who knows all of the stories" on the throne at the end is Mary Sue territory, and/or so self-referential that it kind of ruins it for me.
I think I like, or at least am okay with, where all the main characters ended up, but the writers didn’t quite do enough to make me feel like all of the storylines made sense in getting there. Primarily, I agree with PPs that there needed to be SOME explanation about why Jon’s claim to the throne was dismissed, notwithstanding the fact that he didn’t want it and that he was being held prisoner. It could have literally been a two- line dialogue at the lords’ council and I think that would have made the entire thing feel more wrapped up to me.
I think I like, or at least am okay with, where all the main characters ended up, but the writers didn’t quite do enough to make me feel like all of the storylines made sense in getting there. Primarily, I agree with PPs that there needed to be SOME explanation about why Jon’s claim to the throne was dismissed, notwithstanding the fact that he didn’t want it and that he was being held prisoner. It could have literally been a two- line dialogue at the lords’ council and I think that would have made the entire thing feel more wrapped up to me.
Maybe the whole point of the secrecy of his identity was so he could stay alive long enough (not killed by robert) to kill Daenerys, since hes the only person Drogon would have spared.
Post by lissaholly on May 19, 2019 23:31:10 GMT -5
I am rewatching and I am drunk. So, Jon IS the wheel! He is the bloodline heir to the Iron throne. His brother-cousin is NOT the bloodline heir and is literally broken. It’s a bit heavy handed. I guess the broken non-heir has to be king. The ambulatory, bloodline heir really couldn’t be king.
Also, I feel like Bran’s potential importance was played up over most of the series, but then the Long Night/Battle of the Dead episode felt like such a letdown where I thought there would be more revelation about Bran and there was basically nothing. So Bran was ultimately really important and I feel like the writers did a masterful job weaving threads earlier in the series and then it was just so choppy in the last season that you’re never really sure how/why/if all of the prior stuff is even important.
I wish they took the extra episodes from HBO - they really could have used them. The end seems right overall - it’s just the last bit of getting there that’s off.