Trudeau Brownface

[lolalolalola]

What an embarrassment, yet again....


time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/

[eclaires]

2001? 29? Oh okay.

[aprilsails]

Ugh. Why would anyone do this?

[cville]

Ugh. Trash.

There's no excuse or explanation for this.

[Poppy]

He also admitted to an incident where he wore blackface while performing a song. So gross.

[erose]

Damn, Trudeau. 2001?! When Dems did it in the 80s, we rightfully were angry. 2001 is pretty inexcusable.

[erbear]

Come. ON.

[cville]

Just heard his press comments. He was like "I didn't know it was racist then, but I know it is now."

Insert JLaw "oh, okay" gif.

Do better, people.

[pandora89]

Argh, of course.

[cville]

Sorry, I know I'm commenting on this too much. But I'm starting to think there isn't a single white politician who DOESN'T have a blackface photo. Makes me think long and hard about who I'll be voting for up and down every ballot.

And, really, what the fuck. Even actual old people are too old for them not to have known the implications. And here is Trudeau, a younger world leader who has a half female cabinet and has positioned himself as a champion of diversity.

I am shocked/not shocked.

[auroraloo]

Sept 19, 2019 8:52:31 GMT -5 cville said:

Just heard his press comments. He was like "I didn't know it was racist then, but I know it is now."

Insert JLaw "oh, okay" gif.

Do better, people.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, and I'll survive, but I have a big problem with this attitude. Why is it not ok to admit to learning? Why is it not ok to not know something is wrong, learn it's wrong, and change? Personally, I think this is a big problem we as democrats have, we are not willing to accept change in humans. Isn't learning the whole point? Why do we expect perfectionism out of people? 

"you" know what? I had never heard of black or brown face until around 2012? I grew up in an incredibly conservative family, my mom is still extremely right-wing. I had never heard of it, and I remember when a friend posted a story on social media saying "I can't believe people think blackface is ok" and she didn't believe me when I told her I had no idea what it was, and asked to have it explained. I grew up extremely sheltered from politics and human rights because of who my parent were. If any of you had known me 15 years ago, you would probably be stunned at how different I am. Because I allowed myself to learn and change and grow. Did I do or say horrible things to people? Probably. Do I think I should be "J-lawed" about my change in knowledge? Nope. 

So, I guess, I'm asking someone to explain to me why it's not ok for someone to not know something almost 20 years ago, and have a different view now, especially if that view is backed up by that person's actions. Can anyone help me understand this attitude? 

*disclaimer, I'm abot to go teach for the next 4 hours straight with no break, so I may not reply immediately, I haven't bailed, I promise.

[cville]

Sept 19, 2019 9:16:26 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Sept 19, 2019 8:52:31 GMT -5 cville said:

Just heard his press comments. He was like "I didn't know it was racist then, but I know it is now."

Insert JLaw "oh, okay" gif.

Do better, people.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, and I'll survive, but I have a big problem with this attitude. Why is it not ok to admit to learning? Why is it not ok to not know something is wrong, learn it's wrong, and change? Personally, I think this is a big problem we as democrats have, we are not willing to accept change in humans. Isn't learning the whole point? Why do we expect perfectionism out of people? 

"you" know what? I had never heard of black or brown face until around 2012? I grew up in an incredibly conservative family, my mom is still extremely right-wing. I had never heard of it, and I remember when a friend posted a story on social media saying "I can't believe people think blackface is ok" and she didn't believe me when I told her I had no idea what it was, and asked to have it explained. I grew up extremely sheltered from politics and human rights because of who my parent were. If any of you had known me 15 years ago, you would probably be stunned at how different I am. Because I allowed myself to learn and change and grow. Did I do or say horrible things to people? Probably. Do I think I should be "J-lawed" about my change in knowledge? Nope. 

So, I guess, I'm asking someone to explain to me why it's not ok for someone to not know something almost 20 years ago, and have a different view now, especially if that view is backed up by that person's actions. Can anyone help me understand this attitude? 

*disclaimer, I'm abot to go teach for the next 4 hours straight with no break, so I may not reply immediately, I haven't bailed, I promise.

Because it was 2001 and he was twenty fucking nine years old.

He was also the son of a Prime Minister and therefore had exponentially more exposure to the wider world than most people ever have the opportunity to see.



Eta: I'm not saying people can't change and shouldn't be allowed to learn and grow. I'm just calling bullshit on him. And on not knowing brownface/blackface is "bad." Not understanding all the history or implications? Sure. But not even having the inkling as you begin to swab makeup all over your face and body that, um, maybe this ain't right? When you're about to turn 30? I find that implausible.

I'm sure I have held plenty of ideas that people find implausible to understand that I didn't know were bad/had bad implications. I'm glad I've had the opportunity to learn more about the world and to question my underlying beliefs. I'm perhaps so unforgiving here because I'm a little despairing about the world right now and here's this guy who had every opportunity to be aware and did something racist anyway and then said he didn't know.

[CallingAllAngels]

I was at a church festival circa 2003 where several white men were singing in blackface. I distinctly remember saying WTF to my H (who wasn't yet my H), and him acknowledging that it was messed up. If the two of us (pretty sheltered middle class white people) knew better in 2003, it's not a stretch to expect someone - like cville pointed out - who had a lot more exposure to the world to know better just a couple years earlier. Black/brownface being offensive isn't brand new and neither is Justin Trudeau.

It's so disappointing.

[katieinthecity]

Yeah sorry dude, this definitely doesn't pass the sniff test. I was an adult in 2001, was raised in a very conservative home, and I FOR SURE knew that this was racist. I actually distinctly recall explaining to my younger brother's friend in the late 90s why he couldn't go as a famous black basketball player for Halloween, in blackface.

Just. No.

[taratru]

Can we also talk about his hand on that woman's chest?!? Jesus, Trudeau. 

[ufcasey]

I give a pass to some things, like not knowing phrases that someone grew up with are in fact not appropriate (I did this myself just the other week with "calling a spade a spade", sorry!). But I'm pretty sure it's a universal truth that you should not color your white skin purposely darker as a joke or costume because that's innately offensive. And being in your 20s and not knowing that is either A) proof of your own idiocy or B) your lack of having any diversity of friends/family in your life who could tell you you are being an idiot or C) that you have more money/power than common sense and so no one wanted to tell you that you are being an idiot. Trudeau may have fallen into that last category.

[heyjude]

When did Ted Danson don blackface? Early 90s? That’s when I learned that blackface was very bad. I was a kid. This was a grown ass man in the 2000s. OF COURSE he knew!!!!!

[ESF]

Maybe I could see how someone might not know this until they are older, and race issues are a little different in Canada (not that different but not the same, either).

BUT BUT BUT

This isn't just any random kid.

HIS FATHER WAS PRIME MINISTER.

He knows better. He just didn't care.

[Patsy Baloney]

I really don't feel like colloquialisms with roots in racism and ignorance to that equate to painting yourself brown and donning a turban or painting yourself brown to sing the Banana Boat Song. Especially as the 29-year-old son of a prime minister in 2001. Call me crazy.

This is really, really, really racist.

[WOT?*]

And if you look at photos of the party, he was the only one. Everyone else managed to dress to the theme without donning face paint. He was Aladdin so I guess the paint was necessary to the costume? (not.)

[loira]

This makes me so mad and disappointed. I was always underwhelmed by Justin as leader, but I would SO much rather a Liberal government than a return to the Tories and I feel like he has completely fucked this up for the country if it splits the vote too much on the left. I'm glad I live in Elizabeth May's riding because I cannot even with this nonsense. Ugh, I'm already experiencing election fatigue. I don't know how Americans cope with the years long campaigning.

[goldengirlz]

Serious questions to Canadians: what happens now, with the next election? Especially coming after all the other problematic shit Trudeau has done recently.

This starting to bring back awful memories from the Virginia blackface scandal where all the top Ds had their hands dirty but it was them or an equally problematic conservative. Rock, hard place.

Are you in a similar quandary here? How deep is your bench?

[auroraloo]

Sept 19, 2019 9:53:57 GMT -5 katieinthecity said:

Yeah sorry dude, this definitely doesn't pass the sniff test. I was an adult in 2001, was raised in a very conservative home, and I FOR SURE knew that this was racist. I actually distinctly recall explaining to my younger brother's friend in the late 90s why he couldn't go as a famous black basketball player for Halloween, in blackface.

Just. No.

So, I get why Trudeau in particular should have known, but you specifically knowing shouldn't be a measuring stick, it's experiential and anecdotal. I was an adult in 2001 and had no idea, that doesn't mean no one did, right?

And while this Trudeau incident is what brought this up in my brain, I do think this is something we don't deal with well as a rule, not specific to this incident. 

[rupertpenny]

Can't they (Labour) get rid of him without a new election? Or at least, you know, behind the scenes pressure him to resign? My understanding of parliamentary governments is far from perfect.

Also, how is this photo only coming out now?

[booky]

Sept 19, 2019 11:21:18 GMT -5 loira said:

This makes me so mad and disappointed. I was always underwhelmed by Justin as leader, but I would SO much rather a Liberal government than a return to the Tories and I feel like he has completely fucked this up for the country if it splits the vote too much on the left. I'm glad I live in Elizabeth May's riding because I cannot even with this nonsense. Ugh, I'm already experiencing election fatigue. I don't know how Americans cope with the years long campaigning.

lol I was thinking the exact same thing. It sure is nice to see all the green lawn signs out here.

[lolalolalola]

Sept 19, 2019 11:28:21 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Can't they (Labour) get rid of him without a new election? Or at least, you know, behind the scenes pressure him to resign? My understanding of parliamentary governments is far from perfect.

Also, how is this photo only coming out now?

We have a federal election next month which is why it’s coming out now.

[loira]

Sept 19, 2019 11:23:30 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Serious questions to Canadians: what happens now, with the next election? Especially coming after all the other problematic shit Trudeau has done recently.

This starting to bring back awful memories from the Virginia blackface scandal where all the top Ds had their hands dirty but it was them or an equally problematic conservative. Rock, hard place.

Are you in a similar quandary here? How deep is your bench?

The next election is now, just over a month away. I don't know what will happen. It's unlikely he will step down as leader on the campaign trail. There is a possibility that he won't win his seat. It's hard to say what will happen with the votes because of course only the people in Trudeau's riding are actually voting for him. This would not stop me voting for a Liberal candidate in my riding if I thought they were the best person to represent my constituency. Canadians don't all vote along party lines (e.g. I vote Green because the green party leader is running in my riding and she's the best choice against the conservative candidate there, but I'm not a devotee of the Green Party itself). But I think it will cause some people on the left who are undecided to vote NDP or Green, and that's going to affect the balance in parliament.

I'm in BC which is not traditionally a Liberal stronghold, though. Maybe those in Ontario have other thoughts? @pandora89

[loira]

Also, how do Americans not know we're having an election? We are literally next door!

[booky]

Sept 19, 2019 11:23:30 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Serious questions to Canadians: what happens now, with the next election? Especially coming after all the other problematic shit Trudeau has done recently.

This starting to bring back awful memories from the Virginia blackface scandal where all the top Ds had their hands dirty but it was them or an equally problematic conservative. Rock, hard place.

Are you in a similar quandary here? How deep is your bench?

For me, based on the riding I live in (Saanich Gulf Islands) I always vote Green. I’ll admit to being a Trudeau fan and was quite pleased when Elizabeth May won her riding and JT was voted PM. I’m not sure I know of many people who are still pleased with his performance now though.

[katieinthecity]

Sept 19, 2019 11:36:14 GMT -5 loira said:

Also, how do Americans not know we're having an election? We are literally next door!

Dude, I'm in Virginia. Our ENTIRE STATE HOUSE is up for election in November - every single state senator and house of delegates rep - and there are people IN VIRGINIA who do not know this. It surprises me not at all that people don't know what is going on in Canada. My SIL didn't know who Justin Trudeau WAS until I told her on... Saturday. 

The ignorance is strong.