@Article- adopted child actually adult sociopath..or is she?

[isabel]

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

[kath16]

i can't understand why no one has tracked down the previous family.

i mean, i'm sure SOMEONE SOMEWHERE has, but... what do they have to say about all this?

[CallingAllAngels]

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

But is this documented by any one other than the crazy mom? 

[pixy0stix]

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

Meh. I'm more convinced by the two bone scans they did where the doctors pinged her at right about the age that she is supposed to be. Two different doctors, with the same verifiable results.

[isabel]

Sept 25, 2019 9:15:23 GMT -5 CallingAllAngels said:

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

But is this documented by any one other than the crazy mom? 

I'm sure not.

pixy0stix, that's definitely fair. 

[wanderingback]

Sept 25, 2019 9:20:43 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

Meh. I'm more convinced by the two bone scans they did where the doctors pinged her at right about the age that she is supposed to be. Two different doctors, with the same verifiable results.

Now I’m even more confused. I only read the 2nd article Kari posted but it says after the Mom saw the pubic hair she took her to the doctor and the bone density scan determined that she was 14 years old or older (bone density scans can’t tell exactly how old someone is). I thought she was supposed to be 6 or 7 at that time?

[pixy0stix]

The more I think about this case, the more icky I feel. All the public, above board stuff shows that she's a little girl that they abandoned. The other, more savory stuff, plays on people's fears about adoption. It's the modern day version of "she's going to put strychnine in the well".

[pixy0stix]

Sept 25, 2019 9:27:47 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Sept 25, 2019 9:20:43 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Meh. I'm more convinced by the two bone scans they did where the doctors pinged her at right about the age that she is supposed to be. Two different doctors, with the same verifiable results.

Now I’m even more confused. I only read the 2nd article Kari posted but it says after the Mom saw the pubic hair she took her to the doctor and the bone density scan determined that she was 14 years old or older (bone density scans can’t tell exactly how old someone is). I thought she was supposed to be 6 or 7 at that time?

No. They did one scan that placed her at the appropriate age. Then 2 years later they did another scan that placed her at the appropriate age again. It's confusing, but both times she came back at approximately the same age she should be.

ETA: There's an unverified medical report they used to change her legal age. As in, they can't find the doctor who did it. My guess is that it was probably forged.

[wanderingback]

Is it possible that the girl was older than her birth certificate because the Ukraine didn’t keep detailed records? However, she wasn’t an adult and did have a mental health disorder due to trauma she went through as a child. That seems like the plausible explanation and it is crazy that the parents would just abandon her without seeking more help or anything, even if they did fear for their safety.

[Bad Dingo]

Sept 24, 2019 20:27:38 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Sept 24, 2019 21:27:38 GMT -4 debatethis said:

She's not missing, I found her on FB in two seconds. I am struggling to believe that ALL the reports here didn't do their due diligence interviewing her and the other couple who attempted to take legal guardianship of her, because they were all easily searchable. 

Same, and I'm pretty sure I'm not some amazing internet sleuth.

If you look at the pics from when she was adopted vs now, it's pretty clear that she was a young child and is now a teenager/young adult.

I feel so bad for her that she went through so much already in her life, but it seems like she ended up with some good people.  

I also don't understand why people don't lock down their FB accounts.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 25, 2019 9:33:01 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is it possible that the girl was older than her birth certificate because the Ukraine didn’t keep detailed records? However, she wasn’t an adult and did have a mental health disorder due to trauma she went through as a child. That seems like the plausible explanation and it is crazy that the parents would just abandon her without seeking more help or anything, even if they did fear for their safety.

Sure, it's possible that she's maybe a bit older, but nothing medically is pointing to that. Yes, it's also likely that she has adoption related trauma that went unaddressed. 

[wanderingback]

Sept 25, 2019 9:41:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 25, 2019 9:33:01 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is it possible that the girl was older than her birth certificate because the Ukraine didn’t keep detailed records? However, she wasn’t an adult and did have a mental health disorder due to trauma she went through as a child. That seems like the plausible explanation and it is crazy that the parents would just abandon her without seeking more help or anything, even if they did fear for their safety.

Sure, it's possible that she's maybe a bit older, but nothing medically is pointing to that. Yes, it's also likely that she has adoption related trauma that went unaddressed. 

Yes I see where I was mistaken. I thought she was 14 or so based on the reports, but see they could’ve been falsified. I can’t tell from the article if all the information about her being in a psychiatric facility was likely falsified as well.

[waverly]

I am not sure where the judge got the info to change her age. I couldn't read the first article, and it seemed that the 2nd article was just based on what they said the child said (hearsay) rather than the bone density tests that went with the earlier age.

[cuadrado]

If she has a bone disorder and is actually an adult then wouldn't the ex husband go along with that story? The article says he said she was a minor when they left her. 

"Her former husband, 43-year-old Michael Barnett, told a different story when interviewed by police earlier this month. As far as he was concerned, police said, the girl was a minor when they switched her age and left her behind in Lafayette, Ind. He also told detectives that his wife had counseled the girl to tell people that she was 22 if questioned, and to explain that she just looked young."

[Velar Fricative]

I don’t watch horror movies so I thought of the SVU episode where the girl wanted to stay in foster care forever so she would move from a foster family in one state after “aging out” and pretend to be 16 in a different state. They discovered her true age from dental records. I know historically teeth are treated so separate from every other body part so I’m curious if these full medical tests included a dental assessment.

[kath16]

Sept 25, 2019 18:59:41 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I don’t watch horror movies so I thought of the SVU episode where the girl wanted to stay in foster care forever so she would move from a foster family in one state after “aging out” and pretend to be 16 in a different state. They discovered her true age from dental records. I know historically teeth are treated so separate from every other body part so I’m curious if these full medical tests included a dental assessment.

wouldn't the bone density disorder affect teeth too?

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 26, 2019 8:27:58 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Sept 25, 2019 18:59:41 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I don’t watch horror movies so I thought of the SVU episode where the girl wanted to stay in foster care forever so she would move from a foster family in one state after “aging out” and pretend to be 16 in a different state. They discovered her true age from dental records. I know historically teeth are treated so separate from every other body part so I’m curious if these full medical tests included a dental assessment.

wouldn't the bone density disorder affect teeth too?

Maybe. I’m honestly not sure.

[kath16]

Sept 26, 2019 8:29:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Sept 26, 2019 8:27:58 GMT -5 kath16 said:

wouldn't the bone density disorder affect teeth too?

Maybe. I’m honestly not sure.

me either. i'm making assumptions that i am not qualified to make

[Bad Dingo]

If you google the 3rd adoptive (foster?) family, the pictures of Natalia pretty clearly show a little girl growing up.

I have to say that I kind of feel bad that she was taken in by a super religious apparently trump loving family, but at least she has a family now?

[sent]

Sept 26, 2019 8:27:58 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Sept 25, 2019 18:59:41 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I don’t watch horror movies so I thought of the SVU episode where the girl wanted to stay in foster care forever so she would move from a foster family in one state after “aging out” and pretend to be 16 in a different state. They discovered her true age from dental records. I know historically teeth are treated so separate from every other body part so I’m curious if these full medical tests included a dental assessment.

wouldn't the bone density disorder affect teeth too?

Not necessarily. I don’t recall learning that these types of disorders that affect stature and bone density would have anomalies in the mouth. A calcium disorder may manifest as poor enamel quality in the mouth, but the development and presence of the teeth would still be there. Like just because you have low bone density doesn’t mean you only grow 8 instead of 32 teeth. You would still probably have 32 tooth buds show up as you age from childhood to adulthood.

[leviosa]

The adoptee is going to be on Dr. Phil

www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/crime/ukrainian-adoptee-allegedly-abandoned-by-indiana-couple-opens-up-to-dr-phil/amp/

[Waffles]

How can you legally change someone's age without more checks? The judge should have demanded medical expertise!

Based on the bone density scans and pictures, I feel so sorry for this young girl. She got discarded like a broken toy.

[lessel]

Nov 4, 2019 10:00:41 GMT -5 leviosa said:

The adoptee is going to be on Dr. Phil

www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/crime/ukrainian-adoptee-allegedly-abandoned-by-indiana-couple-opens-up-to-dr-phil/amp/

I literally haven't been interested in an episode of Dr. Phil in over a decade but I'm interested in this one. If, for no other reason, maybe the show will tell a coherent story. I feel like every article I've read about this has been poorly written and has left me even more confused about the whole story.

[wambam]

Nov 4, 2019 10:38:32 GMT -5 lessel said:

Nov 4, 2019 10:00:41 GMT -5 leviosa said:

The adoptee is going to be on Dr. Phil

www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/crime/ukrainian-adoptee-allegedly-abandoned-by-indiana-couple-opens-up-to-dr-phil/amp/

I literally haven't been interested in an episode of Dr. Phil in over a decade but I'm interested in this one. If, for no other reason, maybe the show will tell a coherent story. I feel like every article I've read about this has been poorly written and has left me even more confused about the whole story.

OMG I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I've read three articles and I'm still like "wait what?"

[basilosaurus]

Bumping because there's apparently a second season of the docuseries which is subtitled Natalia speaks.

[dirtyred]

Sept 24, 2019 12:51:18 GMT -5 isabel said:

What the fuck? This is insanity.

I want to hear from the people who gave her up initially. Is this why they gave her up? They determined something was really off and wanted to just get rid of her?

And surely they can determine how old she is. This really shouldn't be that difficult, right? They figure out general age ranges for murder victims, don't they? I don't think that's just a tv thing. There's a big damn difference between an under 10yo child and an adult!

There is a series about this on ID.  They have done DNA testing on the girl and her mother, and have her Ukrainian birth certificate.  She was born in 2003. Somehow they got the court to age her up, despite a doctor saying her growth plates hadn't fused, which made her a child.

[basilosaurus]

Jan 2, 2024 7:21:09 GMT -5 dirtyred said:

Sept 24, 2019 12:51:18 GMT -5 isabel said:

What the fuck? This is insanity.

I want to hear from the people who gave her up initially. Is this why they gave her up? They determined something was really off and wanted to just get rid of her?

And surely they can determine how old she is. This really shouldn't be that difficult, right? They figure out general age ranges for murder victims, don't they? I don't think that's just a tv thing. There's a big damn difference between an under 10yo child and an adult!

There is a series about this on ID.  They have done DNA testing on the girl and her mother, and have her Ukrainian birth certificate.  She was born in 2003. Somehow they got the court to age her up, despite a doctor saying her growth plates hadn't fused, which made her a child.

in the new episode filmed after the first 6 aired, they interview a dentist who said based on x-rays he'd put her at 8-9 and the "mom" signed the report

[pixy0stix]

I stand by everything I said before.

[dancelnow]

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

My daughter did, but then it stopped and puberty resumed with getting her period around 11.

[waverly]

Jan 6, 2024 9:10:59 GMT -5 dancelnow said:

Sept 25, 2019 8:36:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

With the caveat that I do understand some girls go through puberty really early, I think the thing that throws me off the most in the child vs adult thing is that she had full pubic hair and a period when she was supposed to be, what, 7 or 8? Even if a girl starts puberty early, it seems unlikely that she would have lots of pubic hair that quickly.

My daughter did, but then it stopped and puberty resumed with getting her period around 11.

They could get both with precocious puberty. I re read the original articles and only the mom/ parents say anything about a period. The doctors didn’t seem to mention it. Maybe because the bone growth test is the standard and when someone gets their period isn’t a good way to date the age of a child because it can be early or even in regular puberty between ages 10-14 ish.