In class vs pull out

[mightymaude]

Perhaps you call can't answer this, but I need to brood with questions.

What is the correct proportion of pull out services versus in class time?

DD now has diagnoses of SLI, ADHD combined, ASD (mild), and SLDs in reading, writing, and math. The 3rd grade team swaps kids for reading and math. She also gets pulled out for speech and social skills. I have noticed that the majority of the pictures her teacher posts of the class working on something does not include DD. They are primarily pictures of science and social studies activities, which gives me pause. Those are topics DD adores. Where is the line between services and life?

Today she came home devastated that she got a 40% on a reading test, not understanding that the last one was a 25% so this an extremely good improvement.

I teach high schoolers who probably quit years ago. I don't know where it happened. I don't want it to happen to her, but obviously want the best for her.

[waverly]

I don't know the answer to your question in terms of proportion of time. I view it more as priorities. DS had a speech pull out and a hearing itinerant pull out. I thought that he needed speech at that time more than he did classroom time. However he was in K and 1st grade, so class time was not super hard stuff that he was missing. He has since graduated out of speech, but I think hearing services will be all the way through high school, but it's 20 minutes 2 times a month. You might check in with your social skills and speech coordinators to see what they think. It would likely entail redoing an IEP if you drop them down to less time or drop all together. So maybe start with an informal check in and go from there.

I also wonder if social skills can be done at lunch time while eating or as an after school club? Obviously the after school club would probably not be an IEP related thing, just if something happened to exist you could check into it.

As far as social skills you might also be able to get that through a private practice psychologists office like with a group, and have that be outside school hours? It sounds like a stretch but I suppose you might be able to find something. Switching for reading and math sounds normal, and I wouldn't really call them pull- outs.

If you feel that she is doing well with social skills you might be able to transfer that from the school to yourself in terms of extra curriculars like girl scouts. But if she still needs it to be very directly led, I don't know that I would drop that since they are so important. I guess I just don't know her needs or the severity.

[AdaraMarie]

My DD is in 4th. She is twice exceptional with ADHD, anxiety, ASD, and gifted labels. She is also currently placed in a sped program that I'm not crazy about. She gets pulled for social skills, OT, gifted class, and the sped program, and is in gen ed about 40% of the time, which includes specials and I think the gifted class counts as part of her gen ed time.
I think how much time in class is really dependent on what is going on with her. My DD's terrible social skills were pretty crippling in 3rd, which was before she was placed in the sped program and before we started medicating her. Even though she liked science and social studies as subjects, she was never in the pictures that were sent out either. It turned out that her issues made it really hard for her to participate because she didn't do well when the students were moving all over the room and she didn't like working in groups unless she could control everything. She would either refuse to participate, ask to leave (which they allowed), or act up until she got sent to the principal or the mental health office.
If you know that she wants to be there maybe either you or she can advocate for her to be pulled at a different times. In the past my DD did a social skills group over lunch and last year when they wanted her to do a group during her sped "reward time" she refused to go and they had to find a different time and a different way for her to get her mental health services because they realized it wasn't going to work.
In my experience the earlier in the school year you try to get things changed the more flexible the service providers seemed to be.
I agree that switching around for reading and math seems normal and wouldn't be considered a pull out. Unless she's getting pulled from science/social studies every day it's probably the "best" thing for her to miss since she struggles with reading, writing, and math, and since those are the ones that get tested on so heavily. Do you think she would prefer to be pulled during specials? You could try to ask for that time instead if you think it would be better for her.

[mightymaude]

Sorry, I forgot my password and couldn't log in. I'm going to try to hit all of the points in this reply...

She definitely needs the social skills practice, but it hurts my heart that they're pulling her from specials to do it. Those are her favorite parts of the day. I know that some sacrifices need to be made though. Lunch would be a great idea. She hates lunch because it is loud and chaotic. However, IDK about the other kids in the group.

While it is officially an entire group switch for math and reading, in reality it isn't. They pull the low kids and push in the reading specialist. The rest of the kids stay. The low kids are kept longer and keep missing science and social studies, both what DD actually adores and excels in.

I am not sure when she's pulled for speech. I suspect it varies. We've known the speech teacher since DD was barely 3--she's a bit spacey herself.

I feel like I am whining, but she's missing her favorite parts of school. She hates 3rd grade. It's obviously essential that she get caught up in both math and reading, but at the same time, I do want her to enjoy some aspects of learning.

[agedsubaru]

No matter the pull out or push in time, I would look at what reading programs and approach is being used when it comes to sld. Structured literacy has been shown to be effective while most higher education has not been educating teachers. Most systems use whole language or its cousin balanced literacy which is not effective.
iowareadingresearch.org/blog/structured-and-balanced-literacy

[joenali]

I know where I teach students are not allowed to be pulled during specials. Special education or not. I would look into this. Ask the principal what the expectation is in the district or even what the contract language is surrounding this issue.