Jan Book Club Discussion - My Sister, the Serial Killer

[ufcasey]

Next month's book is "The Bookish Life of Nina Hill" by Abbi Waxman.
I've updated the book calendar for the entire year here:
pandce.proboards.com/thread/560725/book-club-reads-2020-welcome


This month's book is "My Sister, the Serial Killer" by Oyinkan Braithwaite.
Here are some discussion questions I found on the internet - feel free to answer them OR just talk about your thoughts in general for the book!

1. Why does Korede continue cover up for her sister, to protect her? What are the justifications she uses to convince herself that Ayoola isn't a serial killer or a monster? Given the sisters' closeness, what would you do in Korede's place?

2. Why does Ayoola kill? Korede wonders whether the knife she carries has somehow cursed her with a violent streak. Is Ayoola cursed? Does she carry the knife for self-defense, as she claims, to protect her against the men to hurt her? Or are Ayoola's murders a product of something else entirely?

3. The girls' father was a violent man—it's his knife Ayoola carries. How might the knife stand as a symbol of the girls' family legacy of abuse and violence?

4. One of Ayoola's boyfriends challenges Korede about her sister: "There's something wrong with her, he says. "But you? What's your excuse?" What specifically prompts his query? And how does, or how should, Korede respond?

5. What was your overall experience reading My Sister, the Serial Killer? 

[ufcasey]

tagging people who may have read it:
aurora, dontlook, So_Fetch, susiebw, meowmaps, litskispeciality, wildrice, travella, wesleycrusher, minzy, TR, toepick, tacokick, Vespasia, just

[meowmaps]

Those are really great, probing questions but I'm feeling lazy so I'm going to share some quick thoughts.

I really enjoyed the book. Prior to fully understanding their dynamic, I found Ayoola's dismissive attitude toward men (using them for their money and then disposing of them when they got too invested) annoying. I also kept waiting for Korede to be assertive and stand up for herself so that was frustrating too.

Once I understood what had happened with their father and that Korede killed him to protect Ayoola, everything fell into place for me. It explained why Korede cleaned up all of her sister's messes and why she didn't give her a swift kick in the butt. It also explained why Ayoola is the way she is. That seminal event shaped her - it created a monster. I liken it to Dexter (the show) where he's "born in blood". I think that once Ayoola was a part of/witnessed her father's killing it fundamentally changed her and I think Korede felt responsible for that.

I really resented the last guy that Korede was in love with but Ayoola dated (his name is escaping me at the moment) when he said that Korede was worse than Ayoola. WTF dude? She tried to save him but he was too busy being superficial and thinking with his dick. Even though he was sort of an innocent I felt glad that he was punished for stabbing Ayoola - not because Ayoola got away with it again but because it felt like some small justice for Korede. I hated how he overlooked Korede who he had a deep friendship with because he was blinded with lust by Ayoola's physical appearance.

[travella]

I couldn't finish this book. First, I'm not a fan of dark comedies. I tried to focus on the sister's relationship, but it lacked real depth. I just couldn't get into this book.

[dontlook]

My comments are going to be quick and maybe all over the place. I'm trying to type this quickly on my computer. I'll chime in later with more if I get a chance.

1. I think she felt responsible to clean up all of her sister's messes all of her life and so she continued to do so even once her sister became a serial killer. It had to be hard initially to separate her actions from that of her sisters and so it was hard to do anything but defend her and help her deal with the aftermath. I would never have gotten involved in real life because if my law and order degree has taught me anything it's that you aren't getting away with murder.

2. I don't think she carries the knife in self-defense. At least not real self-defense. I think she's a murderer, plan and simple. She lacks self-awareness and puts herself in situations the will allow her to feel like a victim so she can lash out. I think she's attracted to men that are all pretty much the same and then she can feel ok about her actions when she ultimately lashes out and kills them.

3. Learning about the girl's father put things into perspective. Family legacies are completed and I think violence can be one piece that is easily passed on.

5. I rated this book 4/5 stars. I enjoyed this book and appreciated the shortness and the short chapters. This book could have easily been a DNF for me if it were longer. The author seemed to be good at editing or had a good editor. There was no reason to drag this out. It moved at a good clip.

*I really appreciated the ending. It would have been easy to try to wrap this up in a nice bow, but the author allowed this complicated messy book to end in a complicated messy way. I appreciate that kind of dedication to the characters. I started to get upset when I thought the author spent all of this time developing the characters just to allow them to be someone completely different at the end. Thank goodness she didn't go there.

[So_Fetch]

1. I think she continues to cover for her sister due to loyalty and protectiveness. she doesn't necessarily agree with her choices, and she's jealous of her, but she will still come to her defense and protect her. I'm an only child - I don't have that kind of loyalty. I wouldn't have gotten involved, though that's easy for me to say as an American.

2. Ayoola kills because she can. I think she's taking revenge on men, regardless of how they act. Just because they are selfish or shallow, they weren't abusive and violent, but I think Ayoola saw that potential in every man due to their upbringing. I'm not sure about the knife. She may truly believe that she needs protection, but I don't know that what she thinks she needs protection from would manifest or if it mattered.

3. I'm just not sure about this.

4. I don't feel like there is much thought or purposeful action in Korede's actions. She is just plugging along doing what she needs to do. Its more like a transaction or something very impersonal. She only knows that she must protect her sister.

5. I thought it was an interesting, quick read. I was a little worried about the violence but the whole thing was very matter of fact so it wasn't bad in that aspect.

[ufcasey]

So I thought this book was a quick, easy read (technically I listened to it). I was expecting something more gruesome but really the book focused on the literal and figurative cleanup of the murders more than the actual murdering, much to my appreciation. I was really dumbfounded about why Korede was covering up for her sister at first, and then especially when Ayoola starting dating her co-worker/crush. BUT then there's the reveal at the end of the book about how their father was abusive and was intending to make a business transaction out of sending Ayoola to a man to be sexually assaulted basically. Then it all kind of made sense in a sick sort of way. I also appreciated the side plot regarding the comatose man who Korede confesses everything to, and how he came to change his life once he woke up. But Korede wasn't willing to change hers as she doesn't pursue his interest in her and covers up for her sister yet again.

I had mixed feelings about the co-worker/crush - on one hand, he completely disregarded Korede out of his attraction for Ayoola, even when she tried to warn him. On the other hand, that's not an offense worth potentially dying over and losing his career because he physically defended himself when Ayoola eventually attacked him. So I'm torn about whether or not to feel sorry for him.

[tacokick]

I read this so long ago as an ARC, I don’t know if I can contribute too much to the conversation. It was like 200 books ago lol I know I really enjoyed it and felt like the style was different but really worked.

I couldn’t relate to her loyalty though. I understood it but I can’t imagine being that close to a sibling.

[meowmaps]

Jan 29, 2020 15:00:10 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

So I thought this book was a quick, easy read (technically I listened to it). I was expecting something more gruesome but really the book focused on the literal and figurative cleanup of the murders more than the actual murdering, much to my appreciation. I was really dumbfounded about why Korede was covering up for her sister at first, and then especially when Ayoola starting dating her co-worker/crush. BUT then there's the reveal at the end of the book about how their father was abusive and was intending to make a business transaction out of sending Ayoola to a man to be sexually assaulted basically. Then it all kind of made sense in a sick sort of way. I also appreciated the side plot regarding the comatose man who Korede confesses everything to, and how he came to change his life once he woke up. But Korede wasn't willing to change hers as she doesn't pursue his interest in her and covers up for her sister yet again.

I had mixed feelings about the co-worker/crush - on one hand, he completely disregarded Korede out of his attraction for Ayoola, even when she tried to warn him. On the other hand, that's not an offense worth potentially dying over and losing his career because he physically defended himself when Ayoola eventually attacked him. So I'm torn about whether or not to feel sorry for him.

I liked this subplot too!  Did you think his interest in her was romantic?  I assumed he was an older gentleman who was advising her like a grandfather might.  Either way, I was sad when she burned his business card.  It did imply with some finality that Ayoola would continue to kill and Korede would continue to cover for her.  Not much of a happy ending from an outside perspective but I imagine Korede does derive some pleasure from taking care of her sister.  It's really emphasized that in their culture the older sibling is responsible for the younger one.   

[mrspez07]

I thought this was just ok. I enjoyed the quick read, especially after coming off a long big book.
Disliked:
I felt I was missing part of the details of the story, like I was missing some pages in the front, and details about their past. I don’t need it all spelled out for me, but it felt fragmented and stilted at times.
I really liked her relationship with the guy in the coma.

[aurora]

I'm traveling and haven't finished yet, but should on the plane and will come back then. Thanks for the tag!

[minzy]

As a plus, I considered this a page turner. Often when I’m reading I’ll flip to the back to see how many more pages I have until I reach the end. Although this was a short one anyway, I don’t think I did that once. So, thumbs up there. I also like reading works written by people who aren’t necessarily old white men, so a plus for that, too. And it’s a debut that has received a lot of good press, so, that’s great for the author.

That said, I didn’t really like it. I found it dark for my tastes; Dexter-like is right. I didn’t get a full grasp on the motivations - yes, the father was terrible to them, but that doesn’t give carte blanche to kill or aid and abet the killing of four people. I’m an identical twin, so I think I have a decent grasp of loyalty and closeness between siblings, yet the relationship between the sisters just felt off here, to me. I didn’t really find myself rooting for anyone.

As a sort of odd aside, I also didn’t feel I had a great grasp of geographic place. I read something that said the author was not trying to write a “typical African novel.” I think she succeeded, such that for about the first half of the book (I’m a little embarrassed to say) I was thinking this was set in Laos, a country in Southeast Asia, and not Lagos, Nigeria, Africa. 😬 (Whoops, my mistake.) It almost seemed like it could happen in any major city with bridges.

Who do we think the man was at the end who came to see Korede? A random sacrificial lamb set up for her by Ayoola, or comatose guy? I left thinking it was comatose guy.

[wesleycrusher]

Jan 30, 2020 5:55:13 GMT -5 minzy said:

As a sort of odd aside, I also didn’t feel I had a great grasp of geographic place. I read something that said the author was not trying to write a “typical African novel.” I think she succeeded, such that for about the first half of the book (I’m a little embarrassed to say) I was thinking this was set in Laos, a country in Southeast Asia, and not Lagos, Nigeria, Africa. 😬 (Whoops, my mistake.) It almost seemed like it could happen in any major city with bridges.

Do you think they would be able to get away with this in a Western country? The police- able to be bribed, lack of investigation- were definitely less thorough than I would expect in America. Also the extent of protection of the younger sibling, while not unique to Nigeria, is not really a Western value, so I had a hard time relating to that (and I am a nurse who has a younger, more outgoing sister!) The guy falling for the beautiful sister instead of the friend, though- that felt very universal.

Overall, I liked the book but I hated every character. I kinda understood the motivation, especially after the reveal about the father, but it didn't make me feel connected or sympathetic to the characters, but I don't think it was really supposed to.

[minzy]

wesleycrusher - You’re right, bribing the police is definitely not as much of a “thing” in the US/Western countries as I’ve seen it portrayed elsewhere.

[expectantsteelerfan]

The sub-plot was my favorite part, and I was sad that it didn't work out in the end, although it did make sense.

To me, they were both so severely damaged by what their father did and forced them to do that their was no way for them to repair themselves.

What I was left with more than anything was a deeper knowledge of what kind of society they lived in that could allow that much damage to be done to this family (and possibly many others like them) and for the girls to exist and inflict so much damage onto others without being caught, and for men to date these girls and either A. be totally oblivious to the real them, or B. recognize the damage in them but still not do anything about it.

[CrazyLucky]

This book was a crazy fast read. I got it yesterday and finished it last night. I rate it 3 stars.
My favorite part was the comatose patient and how it gave Korede an outlet, and then how he reacted when he woke up.
I get the protection of the younger sibling, even without the prospect of her being sold for sex. But, when does it stop? Do you think Ayoola would have killed if she didn't have the knife so handy? It makes no sense that law and order Korede doesn't just take the knife. I'm not always great at connecting dots, but I feel like the author left it up to the reader too much to connect the dots between their childhood and their adulthood. And maybe that is partly cultural. If my mom fawned over my sister and blamed me for everything (like the example that Ayoola stole an apple and it was Korede's fault for letting her get hungry), I'm not sure I'd stick around and do her bidding.
My thoughts on Tade changed throughout the book. He seemed like such a good guy at first - helping the kid get her shot, being kind to the old diabetic. And then when he started dating Ayoola and became blind to so many things, he was of course less likable.
I liked that the women see through the men who think they are so clever when they're really just shallow.

[wesleycrusher]

Jan 30, 2020 15:36:42 GMT -5 minzy said:

wesleycrusher - You’re right, bribing the police is definitely not as much of a “thing” in the US/Western countries as I’ve seen it portrayed elsewhere.

Sorry, I didn't mean to single you out but I quoted you since you had mentioned where it was taking place.

You inspired me to read a couple interviews with the author.  I took "not the typical African novel" to be that it could take place anywhere (which I didn't think it could) but I realize it was meant differently and she was talking about genre, not geography.   "...I think Nigeria has been known for literary fiction quite a bit. But now we're seeing a lot more sci-fi. We're seeing a lot more crime. We're seeing - you know, we're seeing fantasy. We're seeing all sorts of things that - not that they weren't there before, but they weren't there in these numbers. So it's definitely an exciting time."

She also speak about the cultural significance of being the older siblings in the interview.  www.npr.org/2018/11/17/668856445/book-review-my-sister-the-serial-killer

[dontlook]

Jan 31, 2020 10:13:23 GMT -5 wesleycrusher said:

Jan 30, 2020 15:36:42 GMT -5 minzy said:

wesleycrusher - You’re right, bribing the police is definitely not as much of a “thing” in the US/Western countries as I’ve seen it portrayed elsewhere.

Sorry, I didn't mean to single you out but I quoted you since you had mentioned where it was taking place.

You inspired me to read a couple interviews with the author.  I took "not the typical African novel" to be that it could take place anywhere (which I didn't think it could) but I realize it was meant differently and she was talking about genre, not geography.   "...I think Nigeria has been known for literary fiction quite a bit. But now we're seeing a lot more sci-fi. We're seeing a lot more crime. We're seeing - you know, we're seeing fantasy. We're seeing all sorts of things that - not that they weren't there before, but they weren't there in these numbers. So it's definitely an exciting time."

She also speak about the cultural significance of being the older siblings in the interview.  www.npr.org/2018/11/17/668856445/book-review-my-sister-the-serial-killer

Thank you for posting. I really liked the following comments (which is like most the article lol):

“BRAITHWAITE: You know, the two of them - in my mind, they're sort of two sides of the same coin, and - because, you know, with family, you often find yourself playing set roles. And I think this is what happens to Korede and Ayoola. They both play their parts.
Because Ayoola is a certain type of way, Korede becomes a certain kind of way. And because Korede is a certain kind of way, Ayoola is frozen in this place where she is used to being protected, and she's used to behaving very much like a child.”

“But I think that if Korede wasn't there to cover up her crimes, Ayoola wouldn't be able to continue committing them.”

“ I think she protects Ayoola so much because she can't imagine a reality where she doesn't.”

“ And I think, also, once you've kind of - once you've done something once, it becomes easier to do it again and again. So Korede protects Ayoola the first time, and it becomes easier for her to keep on doing that, even though the crimes are grotesque.”

[rainbowchip]

1. Why does Korede continue cover up for her sister, to protect her? What are the justifications she uses to convince herself that Ayoola isn't a serial killer or a monster? Given the sisters' closeness, what would you do in Korede's place?

I think she covered up for her sister so she (Korede) wouldn't get in trouble. . The first one was due to loyalty or maybe panic, but I think after that she knows that if her sister gets caught she will turn on her and at minimum she will be arrested for covering up but Ayoola also could manipulate the police to blame Korede.

I also don't think I would call the sisters close. Korede doesn't like her sister at all. She finds her shallow and lazy mostly. I don't think they relate at all other than they were born into the same family.

I don't think I would help cover up for my siblings. Most of it is I am super creeped out by anything that is dead so there is no way I would help move a body. Maybe lying for them to say they were with me or something...though I'm a terrible liar too.

2. Why does Ayoola kill? Korede wonders whether the knife she carries has somehow cursed her with a violent streak. Is Ayoola cursed? Does she carry the knife for self-defense, as she claims, to protect her against the men to hurt her? Or are Ayoola's murders a product of something else entirely?

I think Ayoola kills because she is a psychopath. She had a horrible abuse childhood but was also beautiful so she got a lot of positive attention too. And it seemed like her mother never held her responsible for anything.
Her father's death probably snapped something in her and his knife gave her permission to kill in her mind.



4. One of Ayoola's boyfriends challenges Korede about her sister: "There's something wrong with her, he says. "But you? What's your excuse?" What specifically prompts his query? And how does, or how should, Korede respond?

It's actually a good question. It's sort of the whole thing about how if people stand by while bad things happen they are just as bad as the people doing bad things.

5. What was your overall experience reading My Sister, the Serial Killer?

I gave it 3 stars. I liked the short chapters and the quick book overall, but the book was only OK for me. The characters were all kind of awful and shallow people which I normally can get on board with if the story is good enough but I didn't feel like the plot carried the horrible characters enough.

[aurora]

I liked it! I listened to the audiobook, and enjoyed learning bits and pieces of the story at a time. I will definitely keep an eye out for more of Braithwaite's work.

I have a sister who is a lot younger although I wouldn't cover up her murders I can definitely understand an older sibling feeling parentally protective of a younger. (Fortunately we weren't abused by older relatives growing up so didn't need to develop these survival skills.)

I did like the chill I got at the end when Korede went downstairs to meet #5.

[aurora]

Jan 31, 2020 17:15:45 GMT -5 rainbowchip said:

1. Why does Korede continue cover up for her sister, to protect her? What are the justifications she uses to convince herself that Ayoola isn't a serial killer or a monster? Given the sisters' closeness, what would you do in Korede's place?

I think she covered up for her sister so she (Korede) wouldn't get in trouble. . The first one was due to loyalty or maybe panic, but I think after that she knows that if her sister gets caught she will turn on her and at minimum she will be arrested for covering up but Ayoola also could manipulate the police to blame Korede.

I also don't think I would call the sisters close. Korede doesn't like her sister at all. She finds her shallow and lazy mostly. I don't think they relate at all other than they were born into the same family.

I'm not sure that Korede always likes her sister, but she definitely always loves her, sometimes dangerously so. I think they feel a deep connection over what they experienced from their father/aunt/chief growing up and are thus very close.

I also think that Korede knows Ayoola is a monster but believes family is more important.

I think the culture of independence most of us grew up with in the U.S. blinds us to just how important family is in many parts of the world. I can't speak to Nigeria, but I've certainly mentored students from many countries who couldn't fathom disappointing their families in ways that I perceived as fairly benign. It's a dramatically different viewpoint.