Post by rondonalddo on Jan 31, 2020 18:57:43 GMT -5
We have an ongoing project in China that could get very complicated logistically if quarantines/shutdowns continue. We just had staff returning from Guangdong province a couple of weeks ago, but now the CDC has issued a travel advisory saying that no one should travel to China. Anyway, right now, we're waiting for our Chinese colleagues who are on extended new year breaks to return and advise us on how to proceed.
The only thing affecting me is trying to get an appointment for anything due to people freaking out in my community. I'm south of Seoul but a confirmed case local to the military base has pushed people into a panic. ER wait times at the on base hospital are over 8 hours, and you can no longer get same-day appointments. People are going in requesting to be tested for the coronavirus and clogging up medical facilities. It's putting stress on facilities due to unnecessary panic.
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I was frustrated since DD had an urgent issue where the nurse advice line said to get her seen within 8 hours due to painful urinating. I ended up going to a local Korean hospital since I could not get any care at my facilities. Trying to schedule a follow-up with any doctor made me feel like pulling my hair out and then to be asked "why did you go to an off base ER?" Ugh.
China has reported 259 people have died of a new virus, which has now infected nearly 11,800 people as the United States declared a public health emergency and took drastic steps to significantly restrict entry into the country.
President Donald Trump has signed an order that will temporarily bar foreign nationals, other than immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled in China within the last 14 days.
The new restrictions, which take effect at 5 p.m. EST on Sunday, were announced by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who is coordinating the U.S. response.
I should also add that here in Seoul, , there are about 171,000 registered foreign University students. Of those, roughly 50% are from China. They should be returning in the next few weeks for the start of the new school year on March 1. So there is a lot of concern over that. The largest 3 Universities are considering a plan to require Chinese students to actually arrive earlier rather than later. The target date for everything seems to be Feb 10. That’s the magic date because it’s 14 days (the incubation period) after restrictions went into effect in China. So the goal is to get the students out of China as close as they can to the end of incubation/quarantine before they have a chance to mingle with more people in China. Then there is talk of an additional 14 day quarantine in some of the dorms on campus before the school year starts.
jinkies, my employer also asked to be informed of any travel to/from China (we have several offices in China). Ultimately, they announced that anyone returning from one of our Chinese offices would need to be quarantined (from the office) for 2 weeks.
Same with my company. Anyone returning from China needs to work from home for 14 days, and anyone showing symptoms needs to report them to our global security team.
All non-essential travel to China is being postponed or canceled.
I won't lie, I'm kinda nervous but that's only because I have a two month old and a three year old at home. Otherwise I wouldn't give it much more thought than the flu as far as precautions go.
My great grandmother died during the 1918 flu outbreak after she had just had a baby, so that also floats around in the back of my mind.
4speedy Thank you for sharing. I remember the pork issue too. My H sent me a link to an American YouTuber that has been living in China for a long time. I took the video with a grain of salt since it's hard to verify facts since China is limiting so much (video link: youtu.be/hSIt496d82s).
China has reported 259 people have died of a new virus, which has now infected nearly 11,800 people as the United States declared a public health emergency and took drastic steps to significantly restrict entry into the country.
President Donald Trump has signed an order that will temporarily bar foreign nationals, other than immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled in China within the last 14 days.
The new restrictions, which take effect at 5 p.m. EST on Sunday, were announced by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who is coordinating the U.S. response.
4speedy what you're saying is what I've been feeling had been happening in China.
In the US, I'm mostly worried about how this will hit vulnerable populations. There are a lot of medically fragile people who this could impact.
This. I don’t want to panic unnecessarily but I feel like not worrying about it is a privilege. And I am extremely privileged to be generally healthy and have access to medical care, but for the people who don’t it will be devastating. I am really concerned about what is being done to prepare to care for and protect those people.
4speedy thank you for sharing. That is really frightening.
Post by basilosaurus on Feb 1, 2020 1:21:49 GMT -5
Yeah, the pork. In all airports in Thailand there are many signs about how illegal it is to travel with pig products due to african swine disease.
I have a pretty minor cold right now (dry coughing is really the only symptom). Arriving back last night, there were no temp scanners for a domestic flight. I was slightly worried my cough would arouse suspicion even though I do not have fever and do wear a mask. Years ago I learned to wear a mask in Japan if I were sick. It's basic courtesy. Later I learned to deal with a mask to protect myself as a healthcare worker. You eventually get used to smelling your own breath and the constant humidity from your exhalations. Eventually. It takes awhile.
Apparently all US bases in S Korea now have temp scanners to access base. I'm guessing that's for walking access since you can't assess cars that way. Outside of China, I believe Thailand has the most cases, but still less than 10. Still there was a confirmed human-human case which is unnerving.
A Chinese tourist in my city died unexpectedly a few days ago, so that raised the paranoia even more, although they've now conclusively said it was not coronavirus. Incidentally, I call it the beer disease now. If we had hamthrax, we certainly can come up with something involving corona! Yeah, I know there are many corona viruses. Notably SARS and MERS.
Our AQI (air quality index) is usually 150+. 150 is "unhealthy." A times in the last couple days it's gone into the 250s. For scale, your cities are probably around 40 or better. So most people were already going to wear masks here. I did last year because I like breathing. My eyes look like I'm constantly stoned. Your schools get snow closure alerts, and we get air quality closure alerts.
I do think it's reasonable to question the numbers from official Chinese sources. I don't think that's the racist part. They're definitely known for lack of transparency.
As an anecdote where it crosses into the racist/xenophobe category, and I think 4speedy will agree. There was a viral post from someone in Seoul who mentioned seeing a passed out Chinese person on the subway, whereupon poster held their breath to walk by and came home to post allllll about it. Chinese person was passed out due to drunkenness, not disease. Authorities confirmed this. Comments on the post are still strongly anti-Chinese.
I'm willing to guess, and from what I've been reading many experts think this, too, that actual rates of the virus are much higher, but if people have mild symptoms, they're not going to hospital and not getting counted. I think as it stands right now, official fatality is 2% (higher than influenza), but that's not likely truly representative.
To put in context and perspective, there's already a very strong anti-Chinese sentiment in much of SE Asia. Not too long ago, some Chinese tourists defecated near an important Thai shrine. It was an int'l incident, to put it politely. It caused a huge ruckus to the point where the Chinese gov't mandated certain travel education about respect. In Myanmar, I definitely met local people who were not shy about saying how much they dislike Chinese since they disrupted their budding tourism industry. In Cambodia, Chinese developers are buying up areas and over developing and not using local labor. There's so much resentment that was already there that a virus is fire to the already lit dynamite.
As for US, the CDC says don't wear masks unless you're in a healthcare situation where you might be exposed (and there you've had a proper fit test and know protocol). Plus, most people don't wear masks correctly anyway. Where I am, we're mostly concerned about not breathing in minute particulate matter, so anything is better than nothing. But the number of surgical masks I saw in my travels likely do jackshit especially given the haphazard way people use them. There's still a run on them in the US.
4speedy what you're saying is what I've been feeling had been happening in China.
In the US, I'm mostly worried about how this will hit vulnerable populations. There are a lot of medically fragile people who this could impact.
This. I don’t want to panic unnecessarily but I feel like not worrying about it is a privilege. And I am extremely privileged to be generally healthy and have access to medical care, but for the people who don’t it will be devastating. I am really concerned about what is being done to prepare to care for and protect those people.
4speedy thank you for sharing. That is really frightening.
What I'm concerned about is the evacuation of foreign medical providers. I don't think there's much of a plan.
In Hong Kong there is a memorial/shrine to the nurses who died due to SARS. I don't want another situation like that. Yet, by keeping providers safe by evacuating, they're leaving behind the most vulnerable. Many people I know would choose to stay behind 1st. I've often thought about what I would do in a similar situation, and I think I'd stay b/c hubris. I'm relatively young and healthy, and though I may get sick, I'm likely to survive.
Apparently all US bases in S Korea now have temp scanners to access base. I'm guessing that's for walking access since you can't assess cars that way.
My base in South Korea is not doing this (I went today and went through the walk-in point). My H was only warned that while off base to comply with Korean jurisdiction if they try to take your temperature.
And now that the plane landed yesterday in Ontario, that’s added to the spread of more misinformation. SFO residents didn’t want them to land there so they had to redirect to one of the poorest counties... 🤨
The plane was re-routed in air from Ontario International to March Air Force Base in Riverside County. It's a best case situation in a worse case scenario in the sense that there is a lot more control on the base than there would have been with potential cross exposure at Ontario. Passengers were asked to stay under observation for 14 days on base and after one attempted to leave they placed him under quarantine.
I'm in Hong Kong - which is pretty much shut down because of this. Schools are closed until at least March, all parks, museums, beaches, tourist attractions, etc. Are closed. Streets are pretty empty compared to normal. For too many Hong kongers, this hits too close to home and brings back memories of the Sars epidemic which is why there have been so many preemptive measures taken this far.
My base in South Korea is not doing this (I went today and went through the walk-in point). My H was only warned that while off base to comply with Korean jurisdiction if they try to take your temperature.
At Yongsan, there is one particular gate on the east side of the base that leads out to Banpo-daero. The gate has two lanes leading in to the base, one lane out. Of the two lanes going in, one side is manned by the Department of Defense and the other side is manned by the State Department. This is because out of the few people who remain on base, they are split pretty evenly between military employees and US Embassy employees. I’ve heard the State Department side is checking temps but the Defense Department side is not. Go figure, lol.
Wow, and yeah go figure lol. I keep forgetting about Yongsan since everything is still balancing out from a lot of facility closures and moving personnel around.
And now that the plane landed yesterday in Ontario, that’s added to the spread of more misinformation. SFO residents didn’t want them to land there so they had to redirect to one of the poorest counties... 🤨
The plane was re-routed in air from Ontario International to March Air Force Base in Riverside County. It's a best case situation in a worse case scenario in the sense that there is a lot more control on the base than there would have been with potential cross exposure at Ontario. Passengers were asked to stay under observation for 14 days on base and after one attempted to leave they placed him under quarantine.
I'm in Hong Kong - which is pretty much shut down because of this. Schools are closed until at least March, all parks, museums, beaches, tourist attractions, etc. Are closed. Streets are pretty empty compared to normal. For too many Hong kongers, this hits too close to home and brings back memories of the Sars epidemic which is why there have been so many preemptive measures taken this far.
Yesterday I probably had 20 pax on my flight on transit to HK. They all wore not only masks but also gloves. There's a memorial to the healthcare workers who died from SARS in HK. I'm sure it seems extremely personal.
At Yongsan, there is one particular gate on the east side of the base that leads out to Banpo-daero. The gate has two lanes leading in to the base, one lane out. Of the two lanes going in, one side is manned by the Department of Defense and the other side is manned by the State Department. This is because out of the few people who remain on base, they are split pretty evenly between military employees and US Embassy employees. I’ve heard the State Department side is checking temps but the Defense Department side is not. Go figure, lol.
Wow, and yeah go figure lol. I keep forgetting about Yongsan since everything is still balancing out from a lot of facility closures and moving personnel around.
My Mom said there is no point to the screening by temperatures for this virus. Not everyone develops a fever, and by the time they do they have already likely been contagious. It makes government agencies feel like they are doing something, but from a clinical diagnosis standpoint it is of very limited value.
Post by basilosaurus on Feb 1, 2020 13:01:18 GMT -5
I'll agree that the temp scanners are mostly bs. I was scanned often after being outside in the heat. I also run pretty cool, so my fever is still in "safe" range. But it makes people appear they're doing something.
I will say that temp scans on int'l flight arrivals are nothing new. I've seen them for at least a decade, maybe more. And it seems, at least in Thailand, authorities know that which is why they are diverting Chinese passengers for extra screening here. We can debate that part, too.
Wow, and yeah go figure lol. I keep forgetting about Yongsan since everything is still balancing out from a lot of facility closures and moving personnel around.
My Mom said there is no point to the screening by temperatures for this virus. Not everyone develops a fever, and by the time they do they have already likely been contagious. It makes government agencies feel like they are doing something, but from a clinical diagnosis standpoint it is of very limited value.
Beyond mistrusting the Chinese gov't reports, this is an important point. Many are likely not to develop serious symptoms, so they're not even counted. That affects fatality rates and overalll affected rates. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
Have we talked about the hospital China is building in response to Coronavirus? It is insane to me how quickly they're able to build something like this:
Have we talked about the hospital China is building in response to Coronavirus? It is insane to me how quickly they're able to build something like this:
I read somewhere that this is not possible in US not due to manpower or resources, but because there is not as stringent of codes and inspections in China which makes me a bit nervous.
Have we talked about the hospital China is building in response to Coronavirus? It is insane to me how quickly they're able to build something like this:
I read somewhere that this is not possible in US not due to manpower or resources, but because there is not as stringent of codes and inspections in China which makes me a bit nervous.
I mean, they made it out of containers with Communist workforce. Of course it was done quickly. They probably worked around the clock in shitty conditions. All they had to do was outfit the containers. So it's not like it was built from the ground up. I'm not trying to imply this wasn't a great feat, but it's not a state of the art brand new hospital.
We couldn't do that for labor reasons, code reasons, resources, etc. We don't have people willing to work like that. We don't have the supplies to do so.
And now that the plane landed yesterday in Ontario, that’s added to the spread of more misinformation. SFO residents didn’t want them to land there so they had to redirect to one of the poorest counties... 🤨
I have to keep calming down my coworkers/friends about it and have them use their critical thinking skills.
Ontario International Airport (along with Oakland International) was designated as a repatriation point approximately 10 years ago, which is why that flight was initially directed there before landing at March AFB. So Ontario actually would've been more than well equipped to deal with the issue since they've had the staff, facilities, and training for this during the past decade. I live locally and county officials actually seemed pretty annoyed that the flight got diverted to March because they kept stressing the fact of their preparation to locals who were flipping out for no reason on social media.