Helping Kids Memorize?

[cereal K]

DD’s (3rd grade) class has an annual “Passion Project” - a large writing project that has some sort of twist. Last year was a research paper, creating a product, and presenting the product. This year is more of a persuasive piece, which is being presented as a TED talk. This kids wrote them (I didn’t love the process, but it’s done), and now have to memorize them. DD is *so* frustrated. She’s never had a problem memorizing before, but she’s hitting a mental wall. They practice daily in class, and we’re trying to practice 2-3x a day at home, but it’s not clicking. She presents/will be recorded on 3/5.

How can I help her get over this hump? We’ve tried reading it over and over, recording her reading it and have her listen to it, hand writing the whole thing, writing queues. I’ve definitely seen improvement, but she still needs prompting through most of it. It’s less and less, but she’s just SO demotivated. I don’t want this to be a battle of wills, and I don’t want her to bomb - both of which will be crushing to her, but it has to be done, and she’ll have to do a variation of the project again for the next two years. 

[pierogigirl]

Can she make a couple of notecards with one or two key words to help her get mostly through it? Once she has a part down, take away that note until she's not using them.

Some kids memorize things by singing (and then she'd have to not sing once she knows it).

[jinkies]

How long is it? Can you break it into chunks and only practice one chunk at a time? So if it's a 5 minute speech, practice the first 30 seconds or first minute, over and over until she gets it. Then move on? I know my son would find that easier than practicing the full 5 minutes every time.

Also, again, I don't know how long the speech is but this seems like a lot to expect from a 3rd grader.

[cereal K]

Feb 24, 2020 19:45:53 GMT -5 jinkies said:

How long is it? Can you break it into chunks and only practice one chunk at a time? So if it's a 5 minute speech, practice the first 30 seconds or first minute, over and over until she gets it. Then move on? I know my son would find that easier than practicing the full 5 minutes every time.

Also, again, I don't know how long the speech is but this seems like a lot to expect from a 3rd grader.

It’s four pages typed. When she recorded herself it was under four minutes, but she was reading fast. She has the intro and conclusion down cold, but stumbles in the middle, meaty sections. She seems to need to momentum, so when we’ve tried to focus on a section she can’t tie it together.

After ever recitation, we review sections that need more attention. I’ve finally convinced her that, during practice when she stumbles, she should just move on to the next part she remembers to help preserve her confidence.

[cereal K]

Feb 24, 2020 19:41:08 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

Can she make a couple of notecards with one or two key words to help her get mostly through it? Once she has a part down, take away that note until she's not using them.

Some kids memorize things by singing (and then she'd have to not sing once she knows it).

I suggested singing and she looked at me like I was the lamest loser ever lol!

The teachers allowed the kids a queue card, but she didn’t realize it would be held at a distance so she wrote too small to read it.

The teachers are allowing her to use her script while practicing but I worry she’ll overly rely on it. And I’m hearing from her that “everyone else” has theirs memorized so I know that feels like a kick while she’s down.

[imojoebunny]

I would just let her do her best. Sounds like the project is over the top for a third grader, and the teachers need to see that, may already even know it, and be forced to do it, via the administration. Encourage her to do her best, tell her you are proud of her for practicing, as hard as, she has, and leave it at that.

I just went to my son's 5th grade parent night, where kids presented projects. There were three different choices allowing kids to showcase their skills in the way that was most productive for them. One was a mask they could hold in front of them, and reciting a poem they wrote. It was genius, because the kids held up their mask, and read the poem printed on the back. It both allowed them to have prompting from the printed words, they had clearly practiced, and let them hide their faces, for the shyer kids. Even with that, one great kid could not get through his, and the teacher came up and helped him finish. His poem was magnificent, not a dry eye in the room when it was done. If the teacher had forced him to be able to recite it on his own, we all would have missed out on a really amazing poem, and the kid, on the joy of having his hard work appreciated.

My only point in telling that story, is that when a project has age inappropriate requirements and cannot be modified to allow for different types of kids to successfully present their best ideas, parents shouldn't try to turn their kid into a pretzel to achieve the ridiculous goal. Encourage your kid be the best loaf of bread, bagel, or gluten free pancake they can be, and not worry about the results. Being the pretzel is not proof of anything, and any good teacher knows this.

[imojoebunny]

Feb 24, 2020 19:59:02 GMT -5 cereal K said:

Feb 24, 2020 19:41:08 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

I sincerely doubt, even if you live in Lake Wobegon, this is true, that every 3rd grader in her class has successfully memorized a 4 page script, unless all the other kids scripts are on how to play mindcraft.  You might reach out to the teacher on this point, if she is having a lot anxiety about this.  

[cereal K]

Okay, so, here’s some additional context that I didn’t originally include in an effort to be concise.

DD is in the district’s immersive gifted program, so the work and expectations are not that of a standard third grade class. (She switched elementary schools last year to participate.) Her classroom is comprised of eight second graders and six third graders from across the district. This project also includes the fourth/fifth grade class (12 total there).

So, yes, it’s a lofty project. No, it is not above her typical ability. Yes, it’s possible that “every other” third grader has memorized it. No, I don’t know what the other children’s topics are (each child picks their passion - only rule this year was no animal topics). I struggle with not pushing her because of the general scope/tone of this program.

I struggle so much with this because she has memorized large portions of text in the past easily, and presents them with enthusiasm and stage presence. The teachers have email me, first telling me that she was having trouble, which was abnormal for her, and asked that we put more focus on it at home, then again to say that they would allow her to have her script while presenting to ease the struggle. The downside of the later is, of course, the other-ness. Her cohort is really competitive for 8-9 year olds, so I hate to put her in that position.

[Nonny]

It's been ages since I've had to memorize anything, but I used to participate in speech team starting from about 7th or 8th grade onward. My tips are less about memorizing, and more about handling the nerves that might be impeding the memorizing.

1. It doesn't have to be "perfect." No one in the audience has her script, so if she forgets something or says something differently than how it was originally written down, it's OK to move on because no one will know.

2. Some of the best/iconic scenes in movies were ad-libbed or changed by the actors. I don't necessarily have any good 3rd grader appropriate examples, but even "on Wednesday we wear pink" from Mean Girls was apparently supposed to be "on Tuesdays."

3. It's OK to be nervous, and her classmates are probably all nervous too, they are just showing it in different ways. Public speaking is scary for most people, and even when you've done it over and over again there will still be nerves and mistakes and that's OK (see #1 - no one will know!), you just have to practice channeling the nervous energy into excitement. (I'm assuming she excited about the project? It's easier to do this when you *want* to share the information you are presenting.)

[docholly]

I would let her use the script.

The only true measure of her ability to persuade/her understanding of persuasion is the writing of her script and her performance giving it.

She may well have the best speech.

She has tried, and it is frustrating her, and the memorization has no real educational value.

Of course, talk to her about it, and see what she wants to do, but the ability to memorize large swaths of text verbatim is not a reflection on her intelligence, and I would tell her that.

Hemingway couldn’t spell. Memorization is a tip of the ice berg skill for speech writing/presentation... like spelling for writing. You can have the best spelling but is it The Sun Also Rises? Haha

[minzy]

My DD is in a similar third grade class. She does great on her report card but tends to blow off prep of extra things I encourage her to do, like practice guitar or study for the spelling bee, or this week’s battle, getting moving on her (optional) science fair project (grr). I then struggle with it because I feel like I’m riding her ass all the time and we both hate that.

So I’ve tried to rein myself in a bit and am thinking more in line with letting her “fail” at these low stakes type things when she’s younger. I fear becoming a snowplow parent, smoothing and easing the way for my little precious who already has lots of built in privilege, when the real world won’t work that way. I’m already socially smoothing her way with friends by hosting a gajillion play dates and with adults who deal with her by being very active at the school/community. So if she bobbles a little now, ok then. We just had this happen with the spelling bee (she did not study as much as I encouraged her to) and sure enough, she didn’t make it very far. But then she chose to sit there and watch it to the very end, when nearly everyone else who lost had left. She said now that she knows how it works that she “definitely” wants to do it again next year, and that she’ll make a better effort to study. TBD if that happens, but I’d be willing to bet that the experience itself of not doing so well the first go around is way more effective than all of my harping.

Of course, you don’t want to see your kid struggle, but maybe there is a plus side to a little adversity/challenge/not being perfect at everything the first time.

As for actually increasing the memorizing, can she switch it up a little and FaceTime the speech to the grandparents or a cousin or something?

[darthnbjenni]

Even in an accelerated class, this seems...a bit much (and I teach AP high school kids). I've coached Mock Trial and have encouraged students to remember key themes for their opening and closing statements. Basically, make a map or bare bones outline, and then ad lib. Speak slowly to allow yourself enough time to think. It's way more effective than memorizing verbatim and rushing through a rehearsed speech.

[frankette]

Sorry, lurker here chiming in.. I’m an actor, so these are a few tricks I have used. does she fully understand what she is saying? Even if it is a topic she choose or is interested in she may be struggling with either the technical facts or the overall idea or concept of this section. Maybe work on that, really breaking down what she is saying, why etc. that might help it stick a little more.

Sometimes if I struggle to link up long sections it can help to work backwards. Because we tend to start over when we “mess up” it means the beginning is often repeated more than the end. So if she knows the conclusion and the intro, divide the middle up into smaller sections and work on the last one first. As she gets more comfortable and familiar with that add the section that comes before and so on.

When you have tried writing them repeatedly, has she been saying them aloud at the same time? You have to go slower to stay “in sync” but speaking and writing simultaneously can help. Good luck!

[lilac05]

I’d try to take a day or two just to talk with her about the project. Build her confidence in her knowledge of the topic. Make sure all of the information makes sense to her. It’s MUCH easier to present information that you know vs the same length of something that you don’t fully understand, like explaining how to do something you do daily vs reciting a principle of physics in detail. Even if both are 20 seconds long, one is significantly harder than the other! Remind her of the goal: to pass along the information to her audience. If she can keep that in mind vs trying to just memorize words, that should help her presentation tremendously.

Also, learning to recognize and use the supports available to you when needed is a very important lesson and skill to have! Others may not need it, but SHE may need them...and that’s OK! It’s better to take a potential knock from other students, but excel during her presentation than try to do without anything and really struggle through it. In the end, no one wins there! If she’s in a gifted class, this may be one of the rare opportunities for her to struggle academically. That’s not a bad thing. It’s good to try and do things that don’t come easy.

[mandymay]

Feb 24, 2020 21:45:21 GMT -5 darthnbjenni said:

Even in an accelerated class, this seems...a bit much (and I teach AP high school kids). I've coached Mock Trial and have encouraged students to remember key themes for their opening and closing statements. Basically, make a map or bare bones outline, and then ad lib. Speak slowly to allow yourself enough time to think. It's way more effective than memorizing verbatim and rushing through a rehearsed speech.

Yeah, my daughter’s in the gate program in our district (4th grade) and no way has she ever been required to memorize a four page persuasive essay/speech. When she gives presentations her teachers allow notecards they can hold to remind them of their points, but they’re graded on the amount of interaction and eye contact they have with their class/audience. Memorizing that much is not age appropriate, even for an accelerated class.

That being said, I’ve needed to help my daughter with memorizing lines for her school play and when she has trouble with a particular section I encourage her to think about the overall idea she’s trying to discuss. So, maybe try breaking paragraphs into ideas and once she has the paragraph ideas down try and break up the sentence ideas. If she can remember those, the words she has to memorize might be easier to memorize.

[sonrisa]

can she put it to music?

I still know the preamble to the constitution because we sang it in 7th grade.

[bohemianmango]

It seems she has done this type of activity before with success. Still, memorization can be tedious and practice is not always fun.

It sounds like she’s doing pretty well with the intro and conclusion. For the other sections, she can try associating images with the text. On her practice notecards, she can make drawings/cartoon strips or find associated images to put on one side and have the text on the other side. Retention and recall of the mental imagery will aid in the recall of the verbal information. The creative and visual aspect also adds a little more fun to the memorization activity.