Now, if it is just taking care of regular patients, that isn’t anymore imminent danger than going to the grocery store if it is in your community like in Houston.
That's not true at all. Taking care of patients is still a risk for us even if they're asymptomatic. As research has shown us the virus can be spread through asymptomatic people. In addition, just going in to a hospital/clinic is being surrounded by a lot of people and germs in general.
I went to the grocery store today. I live in a large city with community spread. I was able to social distance and not get close to anyone except for 2 times in the store that I went to. I didn't sit down on anything and I didn't touch anything other than what I was buying. At work I have to sit down, touch a lot of things, etc. I encounter a lot more people when I see patients and at much closer distances without PPE.
I get that I guess you're trying to be helpful in this thread, but sometimes the attitude/thought process of HR/admin is not in line with those of us who are taking care of patients. So yeah like I said above lets try to make this thread a positive and understanding place and not spout off things like the above quote.
[mention]saudade [/mention] and [mention]fryjack2 [/mention] I am with you and I’m speechless.
It’s bringing out the worst in so many. Instead of our government agencies defending us and helping, they’re adjusting to obscene guidelines and the hospitals are following along.
I really wish organizations (hospitals, systems, etc...) could close until proper precautions could be in place. Then there would maybe be a sense of urgency to get the appropriate PPE where it needs to be.
[mention]saudade [/mention] and [mention]fryjack2 [/mention] I am with you and I’m speechless.
It’s bringing out the worst in so many. Instead of our government agencies defending us and helping, they’re adjusting to obscene guidelines and the hospitals are following along.
I really wish organizations (hospitals, systems, etc...) could close until proper precautions could be in place. Then there would maybe be a sense of urgency to get the appropriate PPE where it needs to be.
My test was negative!!! Thanks everyone for the support. I’m so glad I did not go in with COVID and it was just a regular cold (probably from the kid who sneezed in my mouth 🤢). I did go Debbie Downer with my husband and told him now I just have to get it later 😂. It was so nice to go get (drive thru) coffee this morning
If you have a condition that makes you more susceptible to complications if you get covid19, you may want to look at your personal finances and see if you can take an FMLA leave. You probably wouldn’t qualify for std since there is work available to you, but OSHA says employers should not put workers in imminent danger. Now, if it is just taking care of regular patients, that isn’t anymore imminent danger than going to the grocery store if it is in your community like in Houston. But if you are being asked to care for suspected patients You could request FMLA for your own protection so you are not working in imminent danger without PPE.
It is true that there isn’t enough PPE nationally. It is scary as F. Homemade masks can protect you but could endanger a patient if they get contaminated and you go into another patient’s room.
This is a terrifying clusterF now that supplies are dwindling and manufacturers can’t keep up.
No, they don't. Are they better than nothing? Not by much. Its crazy that people are creating FB groups to get batches sewn because our government failed us and they think it will help.
I see that other incorrect points in your post have been addressed by tacom and wanderingback. I know HR departments and you are trying to help, but the info you are putting up here is not valid and I would hate to think people reading it would think it is.
[mention]saudade [/mention] and [mention]fryjack2 [/mention] I am with you and I’m speechless.
It’s bringing out the worst in so many. Instead of our government agencies defending us and helping, they’re adjusting to obscene guidelines and the hospitals are following along.
I really wish organizations (hospitals, systems, etc...) could close until proper precautions could be in place. Then there would maybe be a sense of urgency to get the appropriate PPE where it needs to be.
Maybe a strike?
There’s always been talks of wondering why doctors don’t unionize and strike at some point. I guess bright side of this is maybe the public and even other doctors will see the difficulties that we face.
In my city nurses are protected by the union and have been on strike before. Late last year residents in another state went on a strike and that’s the first I’ve heard of that happening in recent history in the US. It’s definitely time for change and it’s unfortunate that this pandemic might be a catalyst for that, but even then I’m not holding my breath.
If you have a condition that makes you more susceptible to complications if you get covid19, you may want to look at your personal finances and see if you can take an FMLA leave. You probably wouldn’t qualify for std since there is work available to you, but OSHA says employers should not put workers in imminent danger. Now, if it is just taking care of regular patients, that isn’t anymore imminent danger than going to the grocery store if it is in your community like in Houston. But if you are being asked to care for suspected patients You could request FMLA for your own protection so you are not working in imminent danger without PPE.
It is true that there isn’t enough PPE nationally. It is scary as F. Homemade masks can protect you but could endanger a patient if they get contaminated and you go into another patient’s room.
This is a terrifying clusterF now that supplies are dwindling and manufacturers can’t keep up.
No, they don't. Are they better than nothing? Not by much. Its crazy that people are creating FB groups to get batches sewn because our government failed us and they think it will help.
I see that other incorrect points in your post have been addressed by tacom and wanderingback. I know HR departments and you are trying to help, but the info you are putting up here is not valid and I would hate to think people reading it would think it is.
You are right that I should have said MAY protect you instead of CAN. My point was not to encourage homemade masks - it was to discourage them because they are more harmful than helpful in a patient care setting because of droplet transmission from one patient to another.
If you have a condition that makes you more susceptible to complications if you get covid19 . . . Now, if it is just taking care of regular patients, that isn’t anymore imminent danger than going to the grocery store if it is in your community like in Houston. .
This doesn’t make sense to me regarding risk.
I’d argue that a good number of immunocompromised people aren’t going to the grocery store at all, let alone for 40 hours a week. And we have to assume there are several undiagnosed cases in the inpatient population particularly for areas with community spread and limited testing capability. When I go to the grocery store, I sure as hell am not providing oropharyngeal suctioning, feeding, and touching everyone around me.
That is a fair point - would depend on the level of invasive ness of care for a patient. So if immunocompromised and no PPE, over 60 or immunocompromised one may need to apply to take a leave of absence and get your doc to certify it.
There are so many variations of nursing that it is a good point that some have higher risks of exposure than others.
There’s always been talks of wondering why doctors don’t unionize and strike at some point. I guess bright side of this is maybe the public and even other doctors will see the difficulties that we face.
In my city nurses are protected by the union and have been on strike before. Late last year residents in another state went on a strike and that’s the first I’ve heard of that happening in recent history in the US. It’s definitely time for change and it’s unfortunate that this pandemic might be a catalyst for that, but even then I’m not holding my breath.
I’ve heard about resident walk outs, but not a strike. How would that even work? I’d assume the programs would have to be extended to sit for boards then.
Residents are so expendable to administrations. It ridiculous.
My ultimate goal of sharing info/opinion is to help y’all know your rights under OSHA:
No healthcare worker should be penalized for refusing to do their job if they are facing imminent danger. Definition here: www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html
You would have to meet that standard if you wanted to walk off the job because of inadequate PPE and have job protection.
Next you can ask for an ADA accommodation if you have a qualifying condition.
We are trying to get all our pregnant, older and immunocompromised/respiratory condition caregivers into very low threat functions including charting, transcriptioning doctors orders, telehealth and phone screenings, etc but those jobs aren’t limitless. Moving to units with less invasive procedures is another effort we are trying but the options are limited.
Next you have FMLA, but if you aren’t sick you won’t get pay - you could use PTO or vacation if you have it. But at least you would be safe.
My ultimate goal of sharing info/opinion is to help y’all know your rights under OSHA:
No healthcare worker should be penalized for refusing to do their job if they are facing imminent danger. Definition here: www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html
You would have to meet that standard if you wanted to walk off the job because of inadequate PPE and have job protection.
Next you can ask for an ADA accommodation if you have a qualifying condition.
We are trying to get all our pregnant, older and immunocompromised/respiratory condition caregivers into very low threat functions including charting, transcriptioning doctors orders, telehealth and phone screenings, etc but those jobs aren’t limitless. Moving to units with less invasive procedures is another effort we are trying but the options are limited.
Next you have FMLA, but if you aren’t sick you won’t get pay - you could use PTO or vacation if you have it. But at least you would be safe.
I was just about to say "OSHA." I can't believe hospitals (!!!!!!!) are telling their staff to reuse PPE. That is such a huge OSHA violation. In normal times, I always have "OMG is that an OSHA violation?" floating around in the back of my head because we are told to fear a random audit or a patient/staff reporting me and my office. Honestly I was never even sure if I was following everything I am supposed to do beyond what I learned in school/residency about infection control (homemade masks will do squat to keep COVID-19 out!). I just ordered a $600 OSHA/HIPAA binder earlier this year to finally do the proper training and nail it down. How this whole situation is getting a huge pass from the CDC right now is beyond me.
I wish the doctors would walk out. It's time our physicians get credit and proper financial renumeration for all the hard work, education and sacrifices they make. Support staff too. Where are those MBAs that supposedly run these giant healthcare systems right now? Working from home? SMH. WTF. ALL THE ACRONOYMS.
Oh and let me also add what is making me really mad. Some of these hospital systems rake in $$$$$$$$$ and we (my fellow small business dental office owners) are being told to DONATE supplies? Our state dental society has asked us to submit inventory of certain items so they know what is out there for us to donate. Apparently the state's stockpile was loaned out at some point and not yet returned. OMG again. I get helping the doctors and nurses at a personal level so they can work safely. They likely had nothing to do with the supply ordering where they work. But it is rubbing me in all the wrong ways that I who has a teeny tiny office is being asked to donate to an entity that has beautiful lobbies and giant billboards advertising how caring they are and couldn't be bothered to be prepared for disaster scenarios at their hospitals.
We have no covid patients yet, just r/os and none have been positive, yet.
We have a papr cart that has 4 paprs. If there is a code, you can have 4 people in the room. You better hope the patient is small enough for the LUCAS to fit.
During the shift we have to spray down the papr to reuse. After we use the papr for our shift we have to send it down to sterile to be cleaned for another person to use.
There are many posts on Instagram how they've set the iv pumps outside the room and the vent monitor. This allows for alarms to be silenced, adjustments to be made, bags to be hung, error codes to be cleared without having to gown up just to do that. It's genius really. Our facility has said absolutely not.
We have no covid patients yet, just r/os and none have been positive, yet.
We have a papr cart that has 4 paprs. If there is a code, you can have 4 people in the room. You better hope the patient is small enough for the LUCAS to fit.
During the shift we have to spray down the papr to reuse. After we use the papr for our shift we have to send it down to sterile to be cleaned for another person to use.
There are many posts on Instagram how they've set the iv pumps outside the room and the vent monitor. This allows for alarms to be silenced, adjustments to be made, bags to be hung, error codes to be cleared without having to gown up just to do that. It's genius really. Our facility has said absolutely not.
Can you not use N95s because they don’t have them? Our friend is insisting on sending some to me since he had them from his painting company but I can’t give single ones to work. I guess I keep some in case we run out of the shields for our CAPRs? I’ll send people single masks but I know that’s not going to help
Oh and let me also add what is making me really mad. Some of these hospital systems rake in $$$$$$$$$ and we're (my fellow small business dental office owners) being told to DONATE supplies? Our state dental society has asked us to submit inventory of certain items so they know what is out there for us to donate. Apparently the state's stockpile was loaned out at some point and not yet returned. OMG again. I get helping the doctors and nurses at a personal level so they can work safely. They likely had nothing to do with the supply ordering where they work. But it is rubbing me in all the wrong ways that I who has a teeny tiny office is being asked to donate to an entity that has beautiful lobbies and giant billboards advertising how caring they are and couldn't be bothered to be prepared for disaster scenarios at their hospitals.
That seems really justified. While my hospital is non-profit the people who make these decisions make a pretty good salary. I hope this doesn’t come across offensive but I feel like these small offices can’t make the huge salaries these CEOs are making and they want you to save them.
There’s always been talks of wondering why doctors don’t unionize and strike at some point. I guess bright side of this is maybe the public and even other doctors will see the difficulties that we face.
In my city nurses are protected by the union and have been on strike before. Late last year residents in another state went on a strike and that’s the first I’ve heard of that happening in recent history in the US. It’s definitely time for change and it’s unfortunate that this pandemic might be a catalyst for that, but even then I’m not holding my breath.
I’ve heard about resident walk outs, but not a strike. How would that even work? I’d assume the programs would have to be extended to sit for boards then.
Residents are so expendable to administrations. It ridiculous.
Yeah, they are really powerless in this situation. No protection and do get thrown under the bus as well. At least RNs have the union.
Oh and let me also add what is making me really mad. Some of these hospital systems rake in $$$$$$$$$ and we're (my fellow small business dental office owners) being told to DONATE supplies? Our state dental society has asked us to submit inventory of certain items so they know what is out there for us to donate. Apparently the state's stockpile was loaned out at some point and not yet returned. OMG again. I get helping the doctors and nurses at a personal level so they can work safely. They likely had nothing to do with the supply ordering where they work. But it is rubbing me in all the wrong ways that I who has a teeny tiny office is being asked to donate to an entity that has beautiful lobbies and giant billboards advertising how caring they are and couldn't be bothered to be prepared for disaster scenarios at their hospitals.
That seems really justified. While my hospital is non-profit the people who make these decisions make a pretty good salary. I hope this doesn’t come across offensive but I feel like these small offices can’t make the huge salaries these CEOs are making and they want you to save them.
To those reading, please don't think I'm not trying to help the doctors and nurses. I want them to be safe. But straight up donate? Even if the hospital doesn't pay me for my little box of masks (again Level 1 mask, basically worthless but I have heard there are dentists with N95 stockpiles out there), where are the private insurers in all of this? I don't hear Aetna/Cigna/BCBS coming out and saying they will pay extra for an "infection control code" or the like for possible COVID workups to allow the hospitals to reach out to us other professionals and buy off our stock? I know 3M and others have said they are trying to move mask production out of China and produce more ASAP. But these big guns (hospital systems, health insurance companies) can't lobby Congress to somehow boost that effort further and protect our doctors? Again, I really hope our doctors win back THE LARGE MAJORITY of power in healthcare after this.
sent, I am a nurse and I understand what you are saying, I don't think you are not trying to help at all! You have said encouraging and supportive things. We are all in this together, especially all healthcare providers!
I've been wondering if people who work in county-funded programs are going to band together and sue our county when a bunch of people inevitably catch COVID-19. The county so far has said that people providing services under behavioral health contracts can't get paid if they're not billing/providing services. These are people who are underpaid and undervalued, like mental health care frequently is.
This virus is absolutely exposing the ways in which companies very clearly don't care about their employees.
I’ve heard about resident walk outs, but not a strike. How would that even work? I’d assume the programs would have to be extended to sit for boards then.
Residents are so expendable to administrations. It ridiculous.
Yeah, they are really powerless in this situation. No protection and do get thrown under the bus as well. At least RNs have the union.
Well, some RNs do. Unions are not allowed in Texas, so we do not have that protection here in the "world class Texas Medical Center".
Yeah, they are really powerless in this situation. No protection and do get thrown under the bus as well. At least RNs have the union.
Well, some RNs do. Unions are not allowed in Texas, so we do not have that protection here in the "world class Texas Medical Center".
Wrong. Unions are absolutely allowed in Texas. However, Texas is not a heavily union state. It is a right-to-work state, so union lobbies don't have has much power in influencing legislation nor are they able to be as influential in assisting RNs in confronting major employers (like hospital groups) on issues of pay, work safety issues, etc.
I'm being completely serious when I say this: you should look at what unions are available here in TX for your profession and join it. Or start one. My sister was an organizer for the TSEU (Texas State Employees Union) and I watched some amazing changes happen for state workers.
Yeah, they are really powerless in this situation. No protection and do get thrown under the bus as well. At least RNs have the union.
Well, some RNs do. Unions are not allowed in Texas, so we do not have that protection here in the "world class Texas Medical Center".
Nurses are *absolutely* permitted to unionize in Texas. The right to unionize is federal, protected by the National Labor Relations Act, and state law cannot restrict or overrule federal law; they can *expand* but cannot *contract* rights and protections under federal law. Under the NLRA, workers have protections, particularly when engaged in unionizing activities. www.nlrb.gov/how-we-work/national-labor-relations-act
It's a right-to-work state so unions don't have much of a presence or a lot of support, but if there is a push and a wish for unionization, it is a right.
Unions are absolutely allowed in Texas as others have stated.
But (unwelcome comment on this board), fully research what unions will help you with and what they won’t.
The flexibility my employer has in trying to help workers would go away if we had to negotiate with unions, because then every decision would have to go through contract terms.
Over 500 ADA requests at this point so we are mandating you managers : find a safer option for this person. If it means floating them to a safer unit, do it, and let us know what you and the employee decided.
Floating nurses from one unit to another is often a contracted item for unionized nurses. So if the contract says floating out has to go through X process, we would have to tell nurses that want to work that they need to go home and use their PTO until we go through their ADA process AND the contracted process before we could find them a place to work. That would easily be two weeks because the normal ADA process takes several days PER REQUEST in order to meet all the provisions of the law. Our practice of saying that we will believe you without physician certification for now in order to fast track a safe assignment, and deal with people who abuse the process and don’t have valid medical conditions later - that would have to go. And we DO have nurses who are pissed that it is taking us a day or two to get to their request and they can’t just work it out with their manager.
That is just one example.
I can’t speak for all hospital systems, but I know we had several months of supply available. We are down Significantly and burning through inventory at way faster rates. Manufacturers sent everything they had to China in early January when we were putting in our orders to stock up in prep for the pandemic. Our orders have been waiting and we having been offering premium amounts and lobbying HAS been done - Cheeto head has been making comments about pressing manufacturers to increase supply with incentives.
We have shut down all elective services, which are the money makers, to preserve equipment. We have employees who are pissed about that. They may want to unionize so in the future we can’t so quickly shut down their operations for the benefit of inpatient units.
I absolutely get the desire to unionize when you feel your employer doesn’t care about protecting you. And it may be the right decision for some. But definitely consider ALL the factors that would come into play if every staffing decision had to be managed through a contract. There are pro’s and con’s on both sides. And as I listed up thread, you have a lot of legal rights available for you to exercise without a union too. Consider what a union contract would help with and hurt at this time and make the right decision for yourself.
I’ve heard about resident walk outs, but not a strike. How would that even work? I’d assume the programs would have to be extended to sit for boards then.
Residents are so expendable to administrations. It ridiculous.
Yeah, they are really powerless in this situation. No protection and do get thrown under the bus as well. At least RNs have the union.
Not all hospitals are union. I am not at a union hospital.
ETA: I see that's been mentioned many times. I am not in Texas though.
sent A good friend is an entrepreneur with millions of dollars. He asked me what he and other entrepreneurs could do to help the supplies situation.
I told him that the government should be buying supplies from construction companies and dental offices, etc. I think he is going to start approaching companies himself and offering to buy equipment to then donate.
You shouldn't lose even more money from your business because the government ignored warnings and now wants people to be super generous at a significant cost to themselves.
sent A good friend is an entrepreneur with millions of dollars. He asked me what he and other entrepreneurs could do too help the supplies situation.
I told him that the government should be buying supplies from construction companies and dental offices, etc. I think he is going to start approaching companies himself and offering to buy equipment to then donate.
You shouldn't lose even more money from your business because the government ignored warnings and now wants people to be super generous at a significant cost to themselves.
That's awesome. I have literally nothing to give but I bet some of the hoarders amongst us might be motivated by $$$. Orthodontists who have 3D printers have been trying to figure out how they can print masks. People are trying to help despite this crappy situation we are in. We care because it's our friends and relatives out there as you know.
The most critical part of an N95 is the fit. If we're not fitting everyone properly, then what good is a community effort to round up all the masks?
sent A good friend is an entrepreneur with millions of dollars. He asked me what he and other entrepreneurs could do to help the supplies situation.
I told him that the government should be buying supplies from construction companies and dental offices, etc. I think he is going to start approaching companies himself and offering to buy equipment to then donate.
You shouldn't lose even more money from your business because the government ignored warnings and now wants people to be super generous at a significant cost to themselves.
Inside source says Hines is looking for a New York hospital system to whom they will donate a large supply of masks. Hines is an international real estate and construction company.