Maybe it is just my general guilt but I feel so upset and horrible that I can sit at home with my family for the next 18m if I so desire with no negative impact except to my mental health.
I just don’t see how we can judge people right now. It’s really easy for me to say what other people should or shouldn’t do because I don’t have to make one hard choice right now. And I feel guilty as fuck that the people who don’t have a choice barely make minimum wage. It’s disgusting. In many states we are going to be sending out the working poor as a test balloon because they don’t have a choice. It makes me sick, honestly. So take that $600 as long as you can as far as I’m concerned.
If you know them personally, have you asked them why they pay their employees so poorly in the first place?
They are tipped employees, but I’ll be sure to ask that. Listen I get that nothing I say is right, I've caught on.
I’m glad you are still here and responding. I just think people want to make sure you really understand. The stakes are high and we can’t have people uninformed and telling half truths about friends of friends of a cousin. It becomes the narrative and the narrative impacts laws. If everyone “knows” people “abusing” this system it will go away and people who need it will go hungry and homeless.
Maybe it is just my general guilt but I feel so upset and horrible that I can sit at home with my family for the next 18m if I so desire with no negative impact except to my mental health.
I just don’t see how we can judge people right now. It’s really easy for me to say what other people should or shouldn’t do because I don’t have to make one hard choice right now. And I feel guilty as fuck that the people who don’t have a choice barely make minimum wage. It’s disgusting. In many states we are going to be sending out the working poor as a test balloon because they don’t have a choice. It makes me sick, honestly. So take that $600 as long as you can as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly I hope as many people as possible are able to pocket that cash so they can delay returning to work if they feel unsafe. I know realistically these folks aren’t going to be able to do that but damn I wish they could.
They are tipped employees, but I’ll be sure to ask that. Listen I get that nothing I say is right, I've caught on.
I’m glad you are still here and responding. I just think people want to make sure you really understand. The stakes are high and we can’t have people uninformed and telling half truths about friends of friends of a cousin. It becomes the narrative and the narrative impacts laws. If everyone “knows” people “abusing” this system it will go away and people who need it will go hungry and homeless.
I completely appreciate this comment. More than you know, and thank you for the grace in the response. I’ve appreciated this discussion and has opened my eyes a lot. My comment was uneducated and now I am learning so thank you all.
If you know them personally, have you asked them why they pay their employees so poorly in the first place?
They are tipped employees, but I’ll be sure to ask that. Listen I get that nothing I say is right, I've caught on.
Nope. You are not a martyr here. What you are saying is inaccurate, misinformed, or just flat out wrong. You've heard stories from 2 business owners who can't "rehire" their employees. IF the employees turn down their jobs and aren't exempt due to one of the allowable reasons, they will lose the UI/PUA. I'm going to guess that you're not getting the full story from the business owners. They can also hire other people and still fulfill their PPP requirements.
Post by foundmylazybum on May 12, 2020 22:01:58 GMT -5
I went back and read your original post and the examples you used of people getting higher pay were retail workers and students...it just felt really harsh.
Retail workers, service workers etc are notoriously UNDERPAID to begin with and you feel like they should have been capped? During a pandemic?
A student who might (I mean probably) has loans?
I'm glad you are still responding and reading BC if those were representative of your true thoughts, maybe explore what you believe about people in those professions and is it accurate, or even kind?
Post by mysteriouswife on May 12, 2020 22:05:41 GMT -5
This post is making me sad and angry. WTF am I supposed to do? No one is hiring. Our daycare is only taking essential employee’s children. More daycares are closed than open. Looking for a job is damn near impossible if I want to keep my H employed. We are way more fortunate than others in our community. We aren’t dealing with COVID only. We had a massive tornado and storms take out several businesses, homes, and schools Mar. 3. The job loss here is tremendous. I don’t know that I will be back to work anytime soon.
I went back and read your original post and the examples you used of people getting higher pay were retail workers and students...it just felt really harsh.
Retail workers, service workers etc are notoriously UNDERPAID to begin with and you feel like they should have been capped? During a pandemic?
A student who might (I mean probably) has loans?
I'm glad you are still responding and reading BC if those were representative of your true thoughts, maybe explore what you believe about people in those professions and is it accurate, or even kind?
Again, I’ve been called out multiple times for the same thing. My comments were uneducated, wrong, based on minuscule subset of people. I could go on, but yes, my comment being harsh is putting it lightly.
Shit, if you want to be angry at someone getting the extra $600, get mad at me. I make six figures and Mr. Smock got laid off. Fuck yes we're taking UI +$600.
We lost our health insurance during a global pandemic and there's no guarantee when he'll find a job. We could manage financially on my income, but it would be tight, especially with our new $1k+ per month in health insurance premiums.
Our budget will get a lot tighter after July when he's still unemployed and we're no longer getting that $600. So better believe I'm happy for the extra money now.
This post is making me sad and angry. WTF am I supposed to do? No one is hiring. Our daycare is only taking essential employee’s children. More daycares are closed than open. Looking for a job is damn near impossible if I want to keep my H employed. We are way more fortunate than others in our community. We aren’t dealing with COVID only. We had a massive tornado and storms take out several businesses, homes, and schools Mar. 3. The job loss here is tremendous. I don’t know that I will be back to work anytime soon.
Why is it a problem? Honest question. The fact some kid is getting $2400 or more a month for a few months doesn’t impact me at all. Are you mad because you aren’t getting an extra $2400? Would you rather be laid off of work with no benefits?
I guess I just worry about the future implications of this. I’m not an economist. I can certainly be wrong. I don’t see how this won’t at some point affect our world, but I’m reading more of the comments and obviously I don’t know enough about this. I don’t even particularly care that much to be honest, just made a comment to state one point, that I didn’t think it would have been a bad idea to try to prevent abuse of the situation. I stand by that, doesn’t mean I am out there pissed off about people making extra money. Many of those I know getting it also think it’s pretty crazy, but why should they be the martyrs and collect? Obviously if it helps many people, it’s a good thing for them.
I think the point is that your anger (or annoyance) is misdirected. There’s so much wealth inequality in this country that the people making out like bandits aren’t the ones collecting $2400/month from government coffers. It’s the billionaires who made actual windfalls from the Trump Administration’s tax plan (and, really, benefiting from tax policies dating back much farther than that.) It’s the c-suite of the Fortune 500 rolling in their bloated stock options while slashing their workforce. It’s the large corporations that drained the PPP, which was intended for small businesses.
It may be crass to say it, but $2400 isn’t that much money. There’s unfairness in the system, but look around you. It ain’t this.
This post is making me sad and angry. WTF am I supposed to do? No one is hiring. Our daycare is only taking essential employee’s children. More daycares are closed than open. Looking for a job is damn near impossible if I want to keep my H employed. We are way more fortunate than others in our community. We aren’t dealing with COVID only. We had a massive tornado and storms take out several businesses, homes, and schools Mar. 3. The job loss here is tremendous. I don’t know that I will be back to work anytime soon.
I want to scream at some of you.
My H is also unemployed now, and he can’t even look in other geographical locations because I am under contract for 3 years and would owe my employer significant money if I leave. I’m scared. I’m upset. We’re limited.
mysterious, I have to believe this will pass. Some days I even do believe it.
I am a small business owner. I had 6 employees go on unemployment. I hear a lot about this $600 everyday. While I can see the argument for "the extra payment should have been up to what someone made weekly with a $600 max," that's not what happened. But many colleagues in my industry are fuming. I've heard a lot of moaning about employees "not wanting to come back because they make more on unemployment." Well that's a fact right now. Most of these colleagues yell some version of "BOOTSTRAPS" and say terminate them immediately and find someone new. I can see that point of view. But I think if I was in the employee's shoes, that extra cushion I suddenly came upon would be really hard to give up even though it's supposed to go away on July 31. That date is so far away. Time crawls on the Corona calendar. But right now, that extra money feels so good. In my state, even if I brought everyone back tomorrow, there is very little productive work for my employees to do until we can reopen to business as usual. In our state, my employees can work a few hours each week and it decreases their state take home but they still get the $600. So my plan is to cobble together a schedule with them working part-time so they can still get the $600 and then go full blast in August. That might work out for the timeline of reopening in my state anyways.
I don't have time to get mad about the $600. I'm very glad my employees are all getting something extra that I could not give them otherwise. Everyone knows this isn't going to last forever.
This post is making me sad and angry. WTF am I supposed to do? No one is hiring. Our daycare is only taking essential employee’s children. More daycares are closed than open. Looking for a job is damn near impossible if I want to keep my H employed. We are way more fortunate than others in our community. We aren’t dealing with COVID only. We had a massive tornado and storms take out several businesses, homes, and schools Mar. 3. The job loss here is tremendous. I don’t know that I will be back to work anytime soon.
I want to scream at some of you.
My H is also unemployed now, and he can’t even look in other geographical locations because I am under contract for 3 years and would owe my employer significant money if I leave. I’m scared. I’m upset. We’re limited.
mysterious, I have to believe this will pass. Some days I even do believe it.
Until then, we have each other to hold onto.
H carries our insurance. He is in a solid role until fall. Once fall hits things will start getting scary. He too is in the entertainment industry. His company will still be needed, but his role may not. We are fucked if bars and restaurants don’t start live music back. We are paying everything we can off and saving all daycare expenses. The $600 is saving us.
Post by morecoffeeplease on May 13, 2020 5:53:28 GMT -5
I keep coming back to how the extra $600 a week might allow someone to make more money right now but it isn’t a shit ton of money.
If someone gets max unemployment benefits in PA, they can get $573 a week. (I don’t know anyone who has been approved for max benefits.) Add the $600 to it and before taxes they are getting $1173. That means people are bitching that these people are making closer to a liable wage then they had been. These people aren’t getting rich.
The argument that it should be capped at what they were making is appalling because a lot of these people weren’t making a livable wage.
Edit to add: and you can’t even multiply that 1173 by 52 weeks a year because the benefit runs out after 3 months. 1173 a week is more than I make as a teacher, so I’m not scoffing at it. I’m just pointing out that the extra $600 a week isn’t making anyone rich.
kath16 that sounds like a state problem, not a Fed problem. In Missouri, if you qualify for $1 of the state unemployment, yes, you also get the full $600. BUT the calculation to get any unemployment if you worked during the week is crazy. I just looked at our site and to be able to qualify for $1 (thus giving you the $600 in addition) you can't make more than $385/week. That's $12/hr if you're working 32 hours. Total you'd make $986/week. Yes, that's decent, but I definitely wouldn't call it "bank".
it could very well be a state thing (i am in PA). and yeah i was exaggerating when i said that they are "making bank" but they are "profiting". they are eligible for 20% unemployment plus the flat $600 with no changes to their benefits, etc.
to be clear, i think this is the only scenario that it's being kind of exploited.
kath16 that sounds like a state problem, not a Fed problem. In Missouri, if you qualify for $1 of the state unemployment, yes, you also get the full $600. BUT the calculation to get any unemployment if you worked during the week is crazy. I just looked at our site and to be able to qualify for $1 (thus giving you the $600 in addition) you can't make more than $385/week. That's $12/hr if you're working 32 hours. Total you'd make $986/week. Yes, that's decent, but I definitely wouldn't call it "bank".
it could very well be a state thing (i am in PA). and yeah i was exaggerating when i said that they are "making bank" but they are "profiting". they are eligible for 20% unemployment plus the flat $600 with no changes to their benefits, etc.
to be clear, i think this is the only scenario that it's being kind of exploited.
Who the fuck cares?? How does this affect you at all?? You seriously begrudge people this money??
The $600 a week has an end date so I have a hard time believing large amounts of people are just choosing to basically quit their jobs when unemployment numbers are so high and there will be millions of people trying to find a job at the same time as everyone else. I’m curious as to how many people you actually know that are saying this.
Post by somersault72 on May 13, 2020 7:13:09 GMT -5
I mean I'm still waiting for my "appeal" to go through (I put that in quotes because what I am appealing says I'm eligible for benefits yet I have not gotten them in 5 weeks--hours were reduced by half). I'm incredibly grateful for the $600 because since I was still working half time the regular benefits for me only came to $87/week. The $600 ALMOST put me where I'd be without having my hours reduced. I went back to my regular schedule May 4.
I have heard a few people say they would have made more money being laid off than working and maybe that's true.However even if that's the case, it's temporary. It's not like people are going to be able to ride this train for the long haul. I think we're all aware the system isn't always "fair" and when it's not fair it's usually fucking over the lower or middle classes.
Post by turnipthebeet on May 13, 2020 7:25:42 GMT -5
Executives have profited greatly off of underpaying the workforce. And now that these folks have a shot at a livable wage during a time of great uncertainty, we want to begrudge them?
If this system wasn’t broken, more people would have been earning a fair wage, possibly building a nest egg for such a situation, and fewer would be reliant upon UI benefits for an undetermined amount of time.
Even IF people had been properly compensated, a recession due to a pandemic is a pretty difficult thing to prepare for.
it could very well be a state thing (i am in PA). and yeah i was exaggerating when i said that they are "making bank" but they are "profiting". they are eligible for 20% unemployment plus the flat $600 with no changes to their benefits, etc.
to be clear, i think this is the only scenario that it's being kind of exploited.
Who the fuck cares?? How does this affect you at all?? You seriously begrudge people this money??
kath16 that sounds like a state problem, not a Fed problem. In Missouri, if you qualify for $1 of the state unemployment, yes, you also get the full $600. BUT the calculation to get any unemployment if you worked during the week is crazy. I just looked at our site and to be able to qualify for $1 (thus giving you the $600 in addition) you can't make more than $385/week. That's $12/hr if you're working 32 hours. Total you'd make $986/week. Yes, that's decent, but I definitely wouldn't call it "bank".
it could very well be a state thing (i am in PA). and yeah i was exaggerating when i said that they are "making bank" but they are "profiting". they are eligible for 20% unemployment plus the flat $600 with no changes to their benefits, etc.
to be clear, i think this is the only scenario that it's being kind of exploited.
But it’s not being exploited. The benefit was designed this way. On purpose.
Post by seeyalater52 on May 13, 2020 8:07:20 GMT -5
OK im going to make this really simple for people who can’t be bothered to read back through the thread where this has been said repeatedly: how we talk about these benefits and the people receiving them MATTERS.
You might think you’re making a harmless observation or acknowledge that you’re talking about a very small subset of people, but your voice is being added to a massive chorus of other voices saying the same thing - and those voices are being used to influence safety net policy.
Using words like “exploit” and “profit” makes you guilty of dogwhistles.
Using examples like part time “fun money” workers or students or noting a living situation that you think means someone doesn’t deserve or need the money makes you guilty of stereotyping.
Every state in this country is broke or about to be broke, and how we talk about these programs and the people who use them makes a difference for what gets slashed when these budget cuts go into effect. The federal government is the last hope for a bailout here (for people and for state budgets) and they’re not going to do that if people keep playing into the hands of those who oppose any further aid except to businesses and corporations.
I mean I'm still waiting for my "appeal" to go through (I put that in quotes because what I am appealing says I'm eligible for benefits yet I have not gotten them in 5 weeks--hours were reduced by half). I'm incredibly grateful for the $600 because since I was still working half time the regular benefits for me only came to $87/week. The $600 ALMOST put me where I'd be without having my hours reduced. I went back to my regular schedule May 4.
I have heard a few people say they would have made more money being laid off than working and maybe that's true.However even if that's the case, it's temporary. It's not like people are going to be able to ride this train for the long haul. I think we're all aware the system isn't always "fair" and when it's not fair it's usually fucking over the lower or middle classes.
Well, if you were still getting benefits, apparently you were "exploiting" the system according to kath16
I, for one, don't think (or really care) if anyone is exploiting the system. Or maybe because I am? I left my job via settlement in mid-February. Part of the agreement allowed me to collect unemployment benefits. I was confident that I'd find a new job very quickly b/c it was a great market and I was less than 3 months from my MBA. Guess what? Not so easy when hiring freezes started three weeks later...
So, technically, I was on UE unrelated to COVID-19, but I still get the $600/week "extra".
My brother has been on unemployment since November. He lives in a state with a pretty good UI system, which means that this new $600 bonus puts him over what he was making while employed. He's a museum curator, and not in a major city. He doesn't make bank to begin with, and he and his wife have about 4 degrees between them, meaning their student loans are well over $1000/month, and more than their mortgage, actually. Student loans are only paused until September.
He was about to get an offer for a director position at a museum 90 minutes from his house (40 from our mom's house) in a northern climate because roles in his specialty are just that few and far between. They literally have the offer letter waiting for him, because they drafted it in March. They are, let's say, on hold at the moment.
He is still applying because obviously he's not putting all his eggs in one basket. He just applied for another job that's also at least 90 minutes from his house, which wouldn't start until October.
Do you know how many museums are hiring right now?! My brother is also going to be 35 in July and basically entered the workforce during the great recession. I definitely don't begrudge anyone the extra $600 - especially people who may be unemployed for a year or more, whose restaurants will never open, who won't have clients coming back regularly until there's a vaccine, or who have had their entire industry disappear.
Post by lilypad1126 on May 13, 2020 8:30:51 GMT -5
My company just temporarily furloughed a bunch of people (close to 1,000). All of whom, by the company's calculations, will make more money collecting unemployment (with this extra $600) than they would if they weren't furloughed. The furloughs end July 31.
I'm incredibly grateful I wasn't furloughed, but I'm still so angry that my company furloughed the lowest paid people. 1, everyone I know that was furloughed is so stressed/anxious/worried about it turning into a permanent job loss. And 2, because these people were making so little money to begin with, they are the least likely to be able to handle this financially. They have less in savings, they rely on this income to pay basic needs, etc etc. One woman I work closely with is 60 years old, she works part time and carries the benefits and her husband was laid off permanently last year by the only other large scale employer in our rural area. They both have health issues. She's so frantic, and there's nothing I can do to reassure her because while I would hire her full time for department in a heartbeat, we have a hiring freeze in effect.
If my company doesn't bring these workers back, there are no other jobs in the area for them. None. I live in rural America in one of the most poverty-ridden states. These people who have lost their jobs are poor, most with numerous health issues, and most would happily go back to work ANYWHERE, can't find jobs, are competing for jobs with people who are "more qualified" and half their age.
It's a nightmare of epic proportions. I hope every single unemployed person get their full UI benefit, including the additional $600. I hope the $600 benefit gets extended. I hope they mail out more stimulus checks. I'm so disgusted with how our country is handling this, and to hear people bitching about this makes my blood boil. If that extra $600/week helps those unemployed sleep a little easier, then it's completely worth it. The amount of privileged entitlement I see surrounding this is obnoxious (not just here, but in my local facebook groups). The system is set up for poor people to fail, so the least, the VERY LEAST our government can do is quickly hand out some extra money.
Post by mysteriouswife on May 13, 2020 8:41:49 GMT -5
Employers are calling to report those who will not return to work. I wonder if it is childcare issues on top of being afraid. No one will be falsely getting these benefits. States are checking, employers are reporting, and I’m sure butt hurt coworkers are too.
If you know them personally, have you asked them why they pay their employees so poorly in the first place?
They are tipped employees, but I’ll be sure to ask that. Listen I get that nothing I say is right, I've caught on.
Well, policies that allow tipped workers to be paid less than minimum wage are a whole other problem. (I realize you didn't specify food service, but that's what I'm reading into it.) Of course someone whose income is partially dependent on tips is not anxious to come back to a restaurant, salon, valet stand, or wherever they work if the customers aren't coming. Those people are between a rock and a hard place - come back to work for a fraction of what they made before, possibly without reliable childcare, at risk of exposure to the virus - or decline to return and risk losing UI benefits. It's a shitty position to be in.
Post by purplepenguin7 on May 13, 2020 8:57:08 GMT -5
I do know one person who you might say "finagled" the system by taking a voluntary furlough so they could collect UI plus the extra $600. But, who knows if it will end up biting them in butt if they aren't given their job back at the end of the furlough, or it extends beyond the CARES act. But for every one person, who *maybe* doesn't need the money (who am I to judge), there are probably 50 where that $600 means making sure they can feed their family, or continue to pay rent, or pay their car payment or whatever. There are always going to be people that exploit the system, even if its returning something you wore 7500 times to LL Bean. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in place for the thousands/millions of others who need them.