Expectations for 10 year old

[mae0111]

For those with close-to tweens/tweens/teens - what are your expectations?

We’ve been having an awful time with DD1, and I’m wondering if our expectations are too high.

We expect that she cleans up after herself. If she has friends over and they make a mess, it is her responsibility if she and her friend don’t clean it up together. Make her bed. Pick up her room. Pick up (not necessarily clean) her bathroom. Come home on time. All of these are huge challenges.

For distance learning, she needs to set her alarm to get to her early zoom classes. If she doesn’t get up, I wake her, but she’s expected to get up, get herself ready, and make it on time. We are in week 11. She still can’t do this without significant prompting. Today I woke her and confirmed that she had a 9am call - 35 minutes to get ready. Then I ran out to walk around the block a few times. I came back 5 minutes before her call. She was dressed, hair not fixed, teeth weren’t brushed, and she had to leave the call 15 minutes in to pee because she didn’t go when she got out of bed.

We are also having lots of issues with lying and taking things that don’t belong to her (only within our house). Like, if my stuff is not locked up, she will take it for her own. But God help anyone who touches her belongings. This aspect makes it feel like I’m dealing with a toddler - we tell her not to touch things and she will immediately touch them. Sometimes it’s a safety issue. She has very sensitive skin so I’ve told her I don’t want her using laundry detergent for slime. Contact lens solution works, so I get that for her. She snuck my super strong detergent that I use to wash stinky gym clothes, spilled it everywhere, and the denied the whole thing.

Eventually all of this devolves into everyone yelling. DD1 has ADHD and executive functioning disorder. I’ve tried walking her through, making lists, constant reminders. Nothing works.

So is anything on this list beyond the scope of a 10 year old? Is this just normal challenging authority? It feels beyond the norm, but also feels like even with her adhd, she should be able to handle things. But I’ve been told I’m “very strict” 🙄 because I expect kids to pick up after themselves.

I guess this is a partial vent, but I need tricks that work. Her therapist is good for some things, but hasn’t really been able to help with this stuff.

[waverly]

DS gets up on time and changes his clothes. It is hard to get him to want to shower. I still have to tell him to brush his hair and teeth. He constantly pees on the floor, and I am constantly telling him to wipe it up. He is still always touching things. It is slightly better but he hasn't outgrown it as much as I would like (sensory issues). Luckily elearning is over, yay! But before that, I would have to tell him every morning watch the teacher video, watch the lesson video, get on your call etc. After so many weeks he did start getting on the calls by himself but the rest of the stuff I still had to tell him.

He cleans his room very half done. Almost all his tasks are half done, and we have to inspect them and tell him what to finish. He tried to lie, but he always smirks, so I can always tell. He is pretty compliant on chores, like if I ask him to do it he does it- a lot of that is just his personality. He has decided it is not worth fighting it. DD does try to fight chores, but she is starting to be more compliant on them as well.

[hocus2]

My neuro-typical tween would meet your expectations most though not all the time which makes her a pretty normal tween. I will say staying home has been very hard on the kids and that amplifies and any small issues they might normally have.

I think much of this is the ADHD. I would consider talking to her psychologist or doctor about how to best manage consequences for her lying and taking things.

[xctsclrx]

We expect that she cleans up after herself. If she has friends over and they make a mess, it is her responsibility if she and her friend don’t clean it up together.- I expect this from my 5 year old, 15 and 17 year old,

Make her bed. - We don't do this in my house. so I can't comment

Pick up her room. - Not every day, but definitey a expectation of the 5 and above crowd. my 2 year old has started with my help.

Pick up (not necessarily clean) her bathroom. - My five year picks up his bathroom with reminders, and he cleans his own pee messes with my supervision. My older boys have been legit cleaning the bathroom starting at 10. Also when they started laundry.

Come home on time.- does she have a watch with an alarm? If so then yes.



For distance learning, she needs to set her alarm to get to her early zoom classes. If she doesn’t get up, I wake her, but she’s expected to get up, get herself ready, and make it on time. We are in week 11. She still can’t do this without significant prompting. Today I woke her and confirmed that she had a 9am call - 35 minutes to get ready. Then I ran out to walk around the block a few times. I came back 5 minutes before her call. She was dressed, hair not fixed, teeth weren’t brushed, and she had to leave the call 15 minutes in to pee because she didn’t go when she got out of bed.

- I was still having issues at this age. My mom would set the snooze button to go off every 7 minutes to know I needed to kick in gear, and then she would make me skip breakfast or somthing if I was running late.


We are also having lots of issues with lying and taking things that don’t belong to her (only within our house). Like, if my stuff is not locked up, she will take it for her own. But God help anyone who touches her belongings. This aspect makes it feel like I’m dealing with a toddler - we tell her not to touch things and she will immediately touch them. Sometimes it’s a safety issue. She has very sensitive skin so I’ve told her I don’t want her using laundry detergent for slime. Contact lens solution works, so I get that for her. She snuck my super strong detergent that I use to wash stinky gym clothes, spilled it everywhere, and the denied the whole thing.

        -- I can't comment on the this. I remember my older boys lying around this age and straight up gaslighting DH and I. It didn't last long though. Or that really good at lying. However the boys aren't with us full time so I am not sure what it was like for their mom.


Eventually all of this devolves into everyone yelling. DD1 has ADHD and executive functioning disorder. I’ve tried walking her through, making lists, constant reminders. Nothing works.
        ---instead of yelling can you just tell her to go to her room and leave you alone before you loose it. Tell her that you are about to get really angry and need a break from her? I told my kid after I caught him lying that I didn't like liars and if that behavior continued I would love him, but I wouldn't like him very much. I also told my older boys this. Not sure if it stuck or not.

So is anything on this list beyond the scope of a 10 year old? Is this just normal challenging authority? It feels beyond the norm, but also feels like even with her adhd, she should be able to handle things. But I’ve been told I’m “very strict” 🙄 because I expect kids to pick up after themselves

        - you are not being strict from the outside looking in, but your daughter has issues beyond the normal scope. Are there things that are beyond her capablities?, I am not sure. I think you would know better if she were doing the things that she was capable of and not fighting you on everything.

Without knowing your daughter and your dynamic I am not sure how much help we can be.

I would be consistent go over the expectations when you are calm; layout the consequences if she doesn't comply. Ask if there is anything she doesn't agree with and why (this might get to the root of capablites) be honest with her in how you are feeling. Stay consistent stay consistent stay consistent.

When youa are about to yell can you either remove yourself from the situation or remove her? It isn't being productive and if it is happening all the time she is tuning you out and labeling the crazy lady. ( that is what I did to my mom) She is being a bully right now. When she knows it gets to you she is digging in more. If you can keep the emotion out (hard) it might help the situation.

Have you gone to parenting classes/thearapy for you to help learn how to communicate with a child like this? Not juding you or anything just curious.

Anyway these are just my thoughts, you know your daughter better than anyone else so listen to your gut and know we are here for the rants.

[GuestMom]

Is she on any medication? Different organizational and coping techniques were enough to help me stay on top of things but one of my brothers wasn't able to function without medication no matter how hard he tried. Without medication he couldn't keep up with everything and just got frustrated and upset and then just spiraled. He was well aware of what he needed to be doing but his brain just could process everything.

[mae0111]

Thank you - this is helpful.

I think some of my post makes me sound really harsh. I’m honestly not looking for perfection. “Pick up room” means toss dirty clothes in the hamper, once a week put away the laundry that I washed and folded. If she doesn’t do a quick pickup every day, her room very quickly becomes so messy that I literally can’t open the door. Like a sitcom typical teenager’s messy room.

For zoom calls, I remind her the night before, usually when she gets up in the morning, and typically several times before to keep her moving. But she gets frustrated with me. So she doesn’t want the reminders, but without the reminders, she will forget to go or show up 5-10 mins late. I wasn’t sure if I was expecting too much for her to get herself there with 1-2 reminders.

I feel like we’ve had so many issues that 1. I don’t know where to focus, and 2. My fuse is extremely short after 6+ years of daily meltdowns lasting 45+ minutes (at least one, sometimes more).

She is on medication, which has helped tremendously. But when it wears off, watch out. It keeps her focused for school, and we catch the brunt of things after that. A partial boost after school is not an option on her medication, and she does really poorly on those medications that allow for the short afternoon boost.

[madringal]

Jun 9, 2020 9:41:09 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

My neuro-typical tween would meet your expectations most though not all the time which makes her a pretty normal tween. I will say staying home has been very hard on the kids and that amplifies and any small issues they might normally have.

I think much of this is the ADHD. I would consider talking to her psychologist or doctor about how to best manage consequences for her lying and taking things.

I was going to say something similar. My 12 year old would have had no problem doing any of those things when she was 10.

My 8 yo who was recently diagnosed with ADHD would have struggled (and did) with many of those things. Especially the lying and being sneaky part. But having to constantly prompt her to do daily tasks that she is fully capable of doing used to be a nightmare.

I second the suggestion of talking to pedi.

[mommyatty]

You may never be able to compare her to a typical kid her age. But you should be able to rely on her therapist for help on coping mechanisms for her, you, and the family as a whole. I can understand her needing help or reminders. I could not stand the fits over your helping her when she’s not following up on her responsibilities.

A friend of ours is a pediatrician with ADHD who specializes in adolescent medicine. One time she drew a chart for another friend whose child has ADHD, showing how dire a situation is and when an ADHD brain has enough of the right chemicals to motivate them to do something. It was FASCINATING. There is basically this tiny window where there’s enough stress to trigger adrenaline so they act before there’s too much adrenaline and it crashes their circuit board. You need to find a pediatrician like her in your area, who specializes in kids with ADHD and other issues.

[traveltheworld]

My DS is only 8 so I don't know what he'd be capable of by the time he's 10 or 11, but he definitely is way below his age group in terms of executive function. He can't do things that his 5 year old sister can and personal hygene is a major struggle. We have posters and checklists all around the house for him, and he has his own dedicated Google Home alarm system to prompt him with different things. His pscyhologist's office offers social skills / executive function classes. He has attended in the past and we will have him go back for more.

I do get very frsutrated and discouraged at times, and the constant reminders/nagging wears on me. I worry how his life will be like given that he seems to struggle with "life". It also doesn't help that my BIL also has severe executive function deficits and struggle mightily (e.g. you can't even step in his condo as things are so disorganized and he has faced multiple career setbacks despite being profoundly gifted and finishing his PhD at age 23 because he can't do simple things like getting to work on time or remember to respond to emails), so there's always the example of what DS could end up like.

What we've learned throuhg lots of therapy ourselves and watching my BIL go through therapy is that you can't necessarily change the underlying issue (ADHD, executive function deficit), but it's really important to teach them to acknowledge that they have a deficit and get them on board with strategies to cope with that. I think the biggest problem I see from what you've said is the constant melt-downs and refusal to let you help her. I think if you could get her to a point where she acknoledges she needs help, then at least that might make things smoother.

[erinshelley21]

This is all coming from a parent with ADHD. I don't have experience parenting a kid with ADHD, at least not officially.

Try to capitalize on when she is feeling/behaving her best. Outside of that, do what needs done and try not to get much more. For example, to get ready for her calls with limited time. Get dressed, brush hair and pee. They aren't going to smell her breath through the computer. She can brush her teeth when she is done or after lunch. This will help her learn to prioritize.

I like to do certain chores on certain days. If I don't get them done, it takes longer the next time or I get so annoyed with myself that I stress myself out fitting it in throughout the week. I don't make my bed. It's never been a requirement for me as a kid and time is precious in the morning so every minute counts. Use bed making as a bargaining chip. If she keeps her dirty clothes off the floor or the chore that bothers you the most, she can quit making her bed.

I'm not sure how to handle the lying and stealing. DS tries to lie but isn't good at it since he is 6. My niece stole money from me and got away with it for 2 days before she finally. If you are on to her about a lie, question her over a couple days and see if her story changes or stays the same. Have you tried using fear and telling her about going to jail etc? Might be too extreme, but you've tried everything.

She needs to succeed during her best hours. Do the most important tasks then, save the rest for later and prioritize those. I am an ambitious human from 8:00am until about 6:00pm. I can convince myself I can accomplish all the things and then the medicine is further out of my system and I lose motivation and discipline. These issues you are having with her are going to be around the rest of her life. Maybe not this extreme, but to some degree. And there are some good qualities that come from ADHD. I know I wouldn't be as resourceful as I am if it weren't for ADHD and I'm pretty good at winging it because I put myself in situations all the time where I have to be. She will find her strengths and use them to her advantage one day.

[mae0111]

Jun 9, 2020 12:22:13 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

She needs to succeed during her best hours. Do the most important tasks then, save the rest for later and prioritize those. I am an ambitious human from 8:00am until about 6:00pm. I can convince myself I can accomplish all the things and then the medicine is further out of my system and I lose motivation and discipline. These issues you are having with her are going to be around the rest of her life. Maybe not this extreme, but to some degree. And there are some good qualities that come from ADHD. I know I wouldn't be as resourceful as I am if it weren't for ADHD and I'm pretty good at winging it because I put myself in situations all the time where I have to be. She will find her strengths and use them to her advantage one day.

I agree with your whole post, but this especially. I have been pushing to do the things that need to be done early, and then she’s free after that. That’s been the carrot so far. Sometimes this happens with very few issues and very little pushback. Those days are rare. It happened today after the initial bumps. I’m going to try my hardest to keep her on a schedule this summer.

There are lots of other issues. She can be mean when lying. She told her sister that it was time to go home, quick sister! We will be in trouble! I will be right there! Sister rushed home and started defending DD1 for being late... and it wasn’t time to come home. DD2 was crushed. Again.

I’m hoping that if I can get her to a point of functioning, we can start working on some other things.

[CrazyLucky]

DS is 10 and has been diagnosed with ADHD, impulsive type. We have about the same expectations, although he doesn't have to make his bed. He has a couple of others, like feeding the dog and putting his dishes in the dishwasher. The ones we argue about most are cleaning up his room and the epic amount of Legos in it and taking a shower. Being at home so much has definitely led to some extra struggle, but all in all it's been good for him to have less sitting still time. He gets up on his own, so we have no trouble with that. DD is almost 8, and we do have trouble getting her up sometimes, but once she's up, she does what she needs to.
I think your DD seems pretty typical, except for the stealing and lying. All kids lie, but at some point they get a little better at it and realize they shouldn't lie when there is no chance they'll be believed, like with the detergent. The stealing and lying are the behaviors I'd go after. With punishment for lying, with praise when she tells the truth, with some conversations about the importance of being trustworthy.
Also just curious, is she on medication? DS just got his first Rx today, and he's very anxious to see how it works.

[mae0111]

CrazyLucky she is on medication. She’s on Vyvanse. We also tried Ritalin, which made her shake and sob constantly, and Adderal, which made her even angrier than she already was. It’s not a magic bullet but we see some improvement when she takes it. When it wears off is an issue.

[vasc]

I don’t have a 10-year-old, but I’m a school counselor and have worked with kids with a full range of attentional difficulties. As others have mentioned, it seems her heel-digging and refusal to accept help are the biggest hurdles. I’ve spoken with several students and their parents about helping kids open themselves up to being more coach-able in all areas of their lives. Would she pitch a fit on the ballfield with a coach trying to help her improve her skills? Apply the same analogy to parenting. “I’m not doing X to be mean, I’m doing it to coach you on how to self-improve.”

Like mommyatty said, you likely can’t compare her exactly to her neurotypical peers because she will need coping skills and accommodations for life due to her diagnoses. In addition to ADHD and executive functioning disorder, it sounds like she has a layer of “need for control” and “I won’t be told what to do,” which obviously conflicts with her need for help. Hence the need for her to emotionally open herself up to being coached through tough moments rather than immediately digging her heels.

[erbear]

Jun 9, 2020 9:41:09 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

My neuro-typical tween would meet your expectations most though not all the time which makes her a pretty normal tween. I will say staying home has been very hard on the kids and that amplifies and any small issues they might normally have.

I think much of this is the ADHD. I would consider talking to her psychologist or doctor about how to best manage consequences for her lying and taking things.

I was going to say this. You are describing my 11 y/o on ADHD meds (in what you want to happen) vs not on meds (what you are seeing). She's on Focalin.

[vasc]

As far as intentional meanness towards your DD2, I almost think I’d prioritize addressing that higher than even her attitude toward you. “I’m the mommy and I have skin tough enough to handle myself when you are unkind, but DD2 doesn’t understand all the why you are how you are and all she sees is a big sister being mean.”

A neighbor friend shared a line she drops occasionally with her kids...”Mommy has feelings too.” I’ve used it on my kid a few times when she’s been a pill in recent months and I think it’s really made her think.

[vasc]

Has she read “The Feelings Book” for girls?


The Feelings Book (Revised): The Care and Keeping of Your Emotions www.amazon.com/dp/1609581830/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_UPe4Eb6PJM1ZG