Interesting article on the need for a variety in home sizes and prices in urban and suburban areas and how small houses fit a niche for those who are lower income or in non-traditional-nuclear-family living situations.
It reminded me of the Young House Love discussion recently on ML and how many people were in disbelief that a family of 4 could make living work in just under 1500 sq ft. According to this, the average new home size in the US is around 2100 sq ft and has increased by 1000 sq ft since the 70s - what shocked me most is that the price per square foot has remained fairly constant, adjusting for inflation, which means some of the affordability issue is because houses are just too big for most people to afford. (And stagnant wage growth, of course.)
Personally, I live in 1400 sq ft, in a house built in 1920, on a .1 acre lot with a driveway along the side and a detached garage. We have sidewalks and I can walk myself to lots of restaurants, shops, and a commuter rail, which was the main benefit of this home. It was also affordable, but man, I feel like I clean so much more than when we lived in a 700 sq ft, 2 bedroom apartment!
I was told that shotgun houses are called that because they're easy and cheap to build if you need a house fast before your shotgun wedding.
Beyond that, part of what I love about where we live is that because of the age of the neighborhood (1940s) almost all the houses are under 2000sq ft. The bigger ones usually have the basement and/or attic converted into a studio apartment. There's a lot of detached garages that have been converted into in-law suites. It was a real challenge when we were house-hunting here because they're almost all not permitted correctly (since that's really complicated and expensive to do, as the article says) and so we wouldn't get approval to use our VA loan to buy one.
It's a byproduct of living in a place with astronomical property taxes and multigenerational households.
I was told that shotgun houses are called that because they're easy and cheap to build if you need a house fast before your shotgun wedding.
Beyond that, part of what I love about where we live is that because of the age of the neighborhood (1940s) almost all the houses are under 2000sq ft. The bigger ones usually have the basement and/or attic converted into a studio apartment. There's a lot of detached garages that have been converted into in-law suites. It was a real challenge when we were house-hunting here because they're almost all not permitted correctly (since that's really complicated and expensive to do, as the article says) and so we wouldn't get approval to use our VA loan to buy one.
It's a byproduct of living in a place with astronomical property taxes and multigenerational households.
They’re called shotgun houses because if you fire a shotgun through the front door, it will go clean through the house and out the back door. They’re long and narrow, and definitely have fewer square feet than most other houses!
I have to say I love watching the YHL discussions on ML. People can not get over the idea that they might just be happy with a small house. The thread goes round and round talking about how this family can’t possibly be happy with gasp so little square footage. Meanwhile the ocean is steps away. Sounds like a fucking dream to me!!!
We also live in a small (I don’t think it is small) house. Our location is amazing. We also can walk to so much. I would never give this type of lifestyle up. We could afford much more, but I love the freedom we have.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jan 17, 2021 17:40:45 GMT -5
I remember that conversation on ML, and walking away thinking, once again, how people “need” 2000+ square foot homes is a disconnect for me (same is true for large SUVs for me). It seems so wasteful.
Something that stood out to me:
“Some Rust Belt cities have plenty of homes but still lack affordable options for a largely lower-income population; many people can't handle the renovation and maintenance of a hundred-year-old 4-bedroom house, but might be able to get back into the market in a Detroit or Cleveland if a far more modest option were actually available in their communities.”
Our last house was the only one we could afford at the time, and it needed serious work. We paid ridiculous amounts of money in oil, because the house wasn’t insulated. So even though our mortgage was cheaper, our monthly expenses were so high, something we didn’t anticipate (although probably should’ve).
In addition there are lots of people who flip affordable, smaller houses and then price out lower income people (so true here).
They’re called shotgun houses because if you fire a shotgun through the front door, it will go clean through the house and out the back door. They’re long and narrow, and definitely have fewer square feet than most other houses!
I learned that on the show Your Honor. TV is educational.
I live in an apartment and when I hear of 1400 sq ft houses, my initial thought is that's very small. But as far as apartment's go, I think that's huge. Which doesn't make a lot of sense because it's the same amount of living space and a house would also include a yard, garage, and possibly a basement and/or attic. Anyways, my family of 3 is quite comfortable in our 1000 sq ft apartment and it allows us to have extra funds available for vacations, entertainment, etc. (in preCOVID times, now most of that money just goes into savings).
I’ll admit that I would like a second bathroom and more than 1.5 closets, but that’s not necessarily a small house issue.
Anyway, the article also doesn’t get into how minimum zoning disincentivized public transit and walkability and incentivized car ownership, which increases living costs and the environmental toll large homes take on the planet.
This hits me as we are currently house hunting, and stuck because I lot of what we want comes in what we call “middle age homes for families with teenagers.” I want a garage and H wants/needs space for his tools (employment related) and workshop (hobby). So we end up looking at 4 bedroom, 2500 sq ft homes because they have a walkout basement at a garage. I feel guilty about it, but we want a middle-age house for middle-age us.
We have 1800 sq ft now, but it’s a 3-level townhouse. And I’m having issues with stairs (friggin chemo neuropathy). What we really need is a home in a 55+ community - those tend to have features we want. But we are 9 years too young.
I personally don’t think their house is too small—but I can’t imagine a house with no closets. I am amazed that a house with four people with no closets doesn’t look like a disaster all the time because there is a lot of stuff we keep in closets!
However, I would be happy to try and make that work if I got to live right by the beach!
1400sqft is tiny? That seems palatial to me! But we lived in a studio flats abroad for several years and now live in a 900sqft condo. I do wish for more space sometimes, but it works fine for now. Although I wasn't counting on COVID when we bought it so would be amazing to have an office. We do frequent closet and household item purges. Our biggest problem is storage for things like bikes and camping equipment. Our strata is building a bike locker and that will free up a lot more space in our storage locker. I can finally stop using my parents' garage! 😂
We started house hunting last spring and intentionally set out to buy something small. Our realtor showed us one neighbourhood with 2 bedroom houses that aren't age restricted (lots of 45+ communities here). In 9 months of looking we bought the only 2 bed in that community that came on the market. Competition was so hot we lost out on it twice! Both times the contract fell through and we offered again so I think the 3rd time they picked us even though we weren't the highest offer, but clearly we wanted it bad enough. A similar floor plan down the street went on the market in late December and sold for $25k more than we paid in October (our house is objectively nicer, so I guess that's good for us). At 1150 sq/ft 2 bed/1.5 bath, we're comparable to a condo or mobile home, but the private outdoor space and quality of a stick built home.
There is absolutely a need for more of this size in our city. Lots of people questioned our sanity in buying something so small, but I constantly question why society wants extra space to clean/heat/furnish when it largely goes unused. I'm on a one woman mission here to show people that smaller is just as good. We can have overnight guests and host parties (I assume... haven't actually tried yet!) as good as anyone else.
I personally don’t think their house is too small—but I can’t imagine a house with no closets. I am amazed that a house with four people with no closets doesn’t look like a disaster all the time because there is a lot of stuff we keep in closets!
However, I would be happy to try and make that work if I got to live right by the beach!
This is common here. We spent so much on Tupperware! We also lifted our bed, so we could have space underneath. The beauty of it is that you don’t keep what you don’t use.
Post by mysteriouswife on Jan 17, 2021 18:48:54 GMT -5
Our house is way too big. We purchased it knowing we would eventually be caring for GMIL and my parents would be living here. What we didn’t expect is my mom to die 6 months after purchasing and GMIL diagnosed with terminal cancer shortly after. Now we have a huge house for 4 instead of 7. We told DD we wouldn’t move her again until she graduates high school. We have slowly been renovating and making upgrades to put our house on the market in 4.5 years.
I’m over cleaning and upkeep. We outsourced our lawn care to support a musician friend out of work. H and I had a discussion about continuing it this season. We are overwhelmed. I am ready for my 1200 or less sq ft.
I personally don’t think their house is too small—but I can’t imagine a house with no closets. I am amazed that a house with four people with no closets doesn’t look like a disaster all the time because there is a lot of stuff we keep in closets!
However, I would be happy to try and make that work if I got to live right by the beach!
This is common here. We spent so much on Tupperware! We also lifted our bed, so we could have space underneath. The beauty of it is that you don’t keep what you don’t use.
This is what we did growing up and what my mom did in her last home. Zero closets and minimal cabinets. They turned their second bedroom into a storage room and had air mattress for us.
For me, a house is for your season of life. I don’t want to live in a house this big with this much yard when I’m retired! My priorities will be different.
I think our house decision was based on a lack of community resources. No sidewalks, no community center, etc. We have to drive to a playground. The libraries are small with limited collections.
I end up going to neighboring cities and counties for just playgrounds.
I never think of our 1590 sq ft house as being small, and there are 6 of us here plus 3 dogs. But then I read some posts like the YHL post on ML and feel like we live in a shed. Honestly though, we have plenty of storage, a large yard, a finished basement and I personally don’t think that I’d want a larger house (well, a master bathroom would be nice). When we were house shopping, lot size was more important than house size. I’m honestly not even sure what I’d do with more square footage.
Post by penguingrrl on Jan 17, 2021 18:55:11 GMT -5
I’ve never understood the American obsession with huge homes. Or why people think the YHL people have a “tiny” home at 1,400 SF. Especially in an area and lifestyle that prioritizes outdoor space, which they have a ton of.
@@@@@
Our biggest gripe in our NYC years was the lack of private outdoor space. That was killer, especially when our kids were 2 and 4 and wanted to be outside running around all day but it meant I couldn’t get anything done at all. But that wasn’t an issue of too small a home (we had a 600 SF 2 bedroom apartment) but rather of not having private outdoor space where I could let them go outside into a safe fenced area while I stayed in and got a few things done.
Our first two homes outside the city were each under 1,000 SF for 5 people and we were honestly fine for how we were living then. I’ll admit, with the pandemic our lager house is good because H has dedicated work space (in our prior homes working from home was sitting on our bed for lack of anywhere to be, not ideal as a full time permanent solution).
Now we’re in 2,500ish square feet and it’s palatial. And that’s with also having my adult brother living with us while going to college full time, so 6 people. We could still comfortably downsize to 1,500ish square feet, especially once my brother moves out and the kids are past the toys stage (which they mostly are). However, I would prefer not to go back to only one toilet for all 5 of us.
@@@ So much of it comes down to layout too. I lived in a great 400 sq ft studio in the city as a family of 3, but it also had a huge patio attached and the outdoor space was key to maintaining our sanity.
I also lived in a great 1000sq ft 2bed/2bath apartment as a family of 4, and thought we’d live there forever until covid hit. With my husband wfh indefinitely, and my 7 year old in virtual school, we needed more space.
My dad thought we were nuts for wanting 4 bed/3 bath, saying he grew up with 2 siblings and never had that much space. But I didn’t want a house we’d outgrow anytime soon, and I wanted separate rooms for the kids and dedicated office/guest room space. But the bedrooms are small and the whole house has much smaller closets than we ever had in any of our apartments. My attic is stuffed with clothing overflow that I need to sort through. I’m sure we could pare things down, especially now that it’s easier to do laundry.
(Also, even with all the extra space, our mortgage is almost $2k a month less than our rent was, which is just crazy. Never thought I’d leave the city, but now I’m glad we made the leap!)
I personally don’t think their house is too small—but I can’t imagine a house with no closets.
You don't have to. One trip to IKEA and every house can have closets.
We are 4 in about 1200sqft and could use a better layout and a touch more room, but really the layout issues bother me most. We have a room worth of dead space because of the poor layout and I wish the house entry didn't tromp right through the small kitchen.
We live in a ~1600 sq ft apartment as a family of 4. The size is perfect, it feels absolutely palatial after years of living in a <400 sq ft NYC apartment (pre kids, but still). Our problem is our complete lack of closets (we have 1), and the fact that we are the upstairs apartment and our kids are SUPER LOUD for our downstairs tenant (we lived in his apartment pre-kids and def understand the acoustics). I'd love not to tell my kids to stop running or jumping 486983 times a day to avoid angry texts from downstairs.
But as far as size, we don't need anything bigger. I grew up in a 4000+ sq ft house and looking back it was kind of ridiculous. There were several rooms we never ever used.
Our 1200sqft only feels small sometimes because it is a split level with 3 half levels and one full (the basement). We have lots of closets and storage space. YHL does not have much in the way of closets and storage and some of their bedrooms are teeny tiny with no closets. So the house seems very small to me in relation toy own.
But they irritate me for many reasons that are not related to their house size, lol.
I think a lot has to do with layout, too. My townhouse is around 1500 square feet, but it feels like a small house because it's 3 levels and about 1/3 of that square footage is our basement. We really only use the basement for exercise and laundry, so our actual living space is more like 1000 square feet. Which is honestly perfect for us as 2 adults, but @@@ I think this layout would be challenging for a larger family. I guess if we had 2 kids they could share a bedroom and we could make the basement a play area? The bedroom is a little small for 2 beds but perhaps bunk beds.
In general, I like having a smaller space. This is the biggest house I've lived in since 2013 and I think it has really helped me cut down on storing junk I don't need. It also feels more cozy!
I was just having this conversation with my H. We currently have just under 1600 sq ft 3bed 1.5ba. We have a family room addition that is essential to the house working for us. H wants a bigger home, I’d rather renovate here. We’re basically a Love It or Leave It episode.
Post by cherry1111 on Jan 17, 2021 20:18:11 GMT -5
We are in our first home still after 14 years. It has 1600 sq ft. We are definitely not the norm as all our friends are on home 3 or more now. I love our teeny mortgage and the financial freedom we have by staying here. My husband wants to move and I’ll probably give in next year as it appears my job is going permanently WFH so I’d love a dedicated office space. It will be hard to resist the 3000 sq ft homes that are the norm here but I don’t think we need that kind of space.
Post by imimahoney on Jan 17, 2021 20:23:17 GMT -5
My house is too small and we are looking to move.
It's 990 sq ft with a teeny tiny kitchen and dining room and 1 bathroom that only fits 1 person at a time. We have a finished basement downstairs that we use as my husband's home office and a family room which adds about 200ish more sq ft. We are a family of 4.
If we had 1 more bathroom and if each room was just a bit bigger we wouldn't be so itching to move. I grew up in a small nyc apartment so I'm used to small spaces but our house's layout is just not conducive to what we need right now.
We are hoping for 2 bathrooms and 1800ish sq ft, which doesn't seem huge to me.
I think a lot has to do with layout, too. My townhouse is around 1500 square feet, but it feels like a small house because it's 3 levels and about 1/3 of that square footage is our basement. We really only use the basement for exercise and laundry, so our actual living space is more like 1000 square feet. Which is honestly perfect for us as 2 adults, but I think this layout would be challenging for a larger family. I guess if we had 2 kids they could share a bedroom and we could make the basement a play area? The bedroom is a little small for 2 beds but perhaps bunk beds.
In general, I like having a smaller space. This is the biggest house I've lived in since 2013 and I think it has really helped me cut down on storing junk I don't need. It also feels more cozy!
And stairs also take up a lot of square footage! 1500 sq ft on 3 levels would be noticably smaller than our 1500 sq ft ranch, which is large enough to have space we rarely use.
I was just having this conversation with my H. We currently have just under 1600 sq ft 3bed 1.5ba. We have a family room addition that is essential to the house working for us. H wants a bigger home, I’d rather renovate here. We’re basically a Love It or Leave It episode.
We will compete with you to get on the show lol. I too am Love It and he’s List It. We are in a rowhouse with 2,000 sq ft including the finished basement, but because he grew up in a large suburban house and I grew up in a family of 6 in apartments with only one bathroom, he thinks we will outgrow it and I think he’s nuts.
How we were raised plays a big role in our views, but I felt like younger generations were really starting to embrace smaller-space living...until covid hit. I do hope we still can prioritize smaller-space living but provide more private outdoor spaces or shared outdoor spaces for all residents.
I also wasn’t aware at what truly drove this building spree of bigger houses until reading the OP article. It really is a no-brainer to have varieties of housing in communities but there are so many reasons why that doesn’t happen.