House shopping/kitchen layout advice

[Susie]

We're currently house shopping, because we unhappily reached the conclusion that even after we maximally renovate and add on to our existing house, we probably won't be as happy with it as we could be.  The shopping process is reminding me why we wanted to renovate in the first place though -- there's so little that I'm interested in buying!  It's a low inventory time of year, but even reviewing past sales... pickings are slim.

Anyway.

The kitchen is a pretty key differentiator within houses we're looking at.  H cooks and I bake, and our current kitchen frustrates us like crazy.  We don't have enough storage, all the counters are choppy and little, there's no pantry, and there's not enough square footage to change any of that.  The fridge is counter depth to avoid sticking out into the room and impeding traffic, but that means small capacity.  We got by when it was 2 of us, but now there are 4 of us, and we've accumulated more kitchen toys.  We need a bigger, better laid out kitchen.

This is the kitchen in the house that pushed us to decide yes, we want to move.  Unfortunately it immediately went under contract and we missed out.









Unfortunately it was exactly our style, and now everything else pales in comparison.  Full inset cherry shaker cabinets, easy to use layout with an island, lots of storage, cabinets to the ceiling, everything in reasonable reach (except top shelves but that's ok), totally reasonable counters, and a clean look to the backsplash.  

So many of the houses we are looking at have kitchens laid out like these:




I don't like that layout as much, but I've never exactly had it.  Our kitchen is smaller, lacks the peninsula, has fewer cabinets, and is much shorter in overall length.  I'm curious how this layout works for those who are heavy kitchen users.  

One of my concerns is that the cabinet over the peninsula end would be really hard and awkward for a short person like me to reach.  That small counter/desk area by the table in the bottom picture also seems super useless.  I really, really, would prefer an island, because I'm worried about bumping into each other within the u-shape, but I guess what I am asking is... is that preference reasonable?  Do others with more experience using some of these layouts agree?  Is that worth weight in the house hunt?

I cringe at buying a house with an "ok" kitchen - better layout and size than current, nicer counters, but in that bottom picture, those cabinets are no nicer than what we have, with fake wood laminate end panels  I know I'd up leaving them for way too many years even if I hated them, because ripping out granite to change a layout would bother me as totally wasteful.  Ideally we'd buy a great house with a generous sized but dated kitchen and then reno it -- but it seems like kitchens are the place where people are like "let's slap granite on our shitty cabinets and list it for sale!"  Exactly what I don't want!  So that option doesn't really seem to exist.  

Advice please?  I guess what I'm trying to decide is, in our very limited inventory area, do we go with a less preferred kitchen layout, or is it worth it to hold out and stay where we are, hoping for perfect? 

[simpsongal]

The second kitchen looks pretty tight - I think you and your DH would be bumping elbows a lot. And there doesn't appear to be much of a design fix. The third kitchen seems like it has potential, esp for a facelift. You could remove the peninsula and do a narrow island. We ripped out a desk space like that and installed the counter-height cabinet. You could do new uppers w/o bulkhead and paint the rest of the cabinets to match. But that's obviously money and work.

I think a lot of folks in the market would jump at kitchen #1, so you're going to be fighting premium bids and escalation clauses. If you're willing to go w/an older kitchen that's decent and has potential, that might be your ticket to landing the house for a decent price. But I'd calculate the value of kitchen 1 vs 3. Our rough estimate for our kitchen upgrade is $60K. That's not a huge difference in monthly mortgage payments (plus there's the tradeoff of having to live through a renovation).

[aprilsails]

See if you are likely to keep it, I prefer the layout for kitchen 2 over kitchen 3. I mostly don’t like the fridge being outside of the kitchen footprint, and think the wall cabinets in 2 are a better use then the desk in 3.

My childhood home had a very similar layout to 2. It wasn’t perfect but no kitchen is. There was definitely enough space for two of us to work although you couldn’t dance around like crazy. You just stayed in your own space. I actually like that it stops kids from wandering straight through the kitchen. Keeps them out from underfoot. Something that I wish I had.

[Susie]

I'm waiting to see what the house with kitchen #1 sells for.  It listed for $410k, but with 6 offers this month, I am sure it went for more than that.  Still in contract now.

Kitchen #2 was in a house that sold for $515k in Nov. 2019.  That house is about 600 sf bigger than the other two, and has a swankier address.  Older, more established neighborhood.  The "it" neighborhood elementary in our district.  The price difference has more to do with those factors than the kitchen.

Kitchen #3 was in a house that sold for $401k in December 2020, on the same street as house #1.

So... financially it's hard to justify buying a house with a lesser kitchen and then dumping $60k into it.  OTOH, we could be waiting forever if we don't!

[woowoo]

Susie, would this be your forever home? If so, then I do think you should consider buying a kitchen with a desirable layout (ie: location of appliances, overall flow of the space) but needs updating with cabinets and countertops. This could land you more in the middle of renovation costs, and give you what you want with quality and durability.

Kitchen renovations get extremely pricey when you start moving walls, moving appliances, and upgrading appliances.

As an example -
The 2nd kitchen could be left nearly exactly as is with regards to lay out and appliances, but changing cabinets and countertops - maybe landing you somewhere in the $20K range? Then you could make the desk area a more functional space with additional storage. Appliances could be replaced as needed.

Good luck - I have a few friends house hunting right now and it is indeed very challenging.

[Susie]

Jan 26, 2021 13:36:10 GMT -5 woowoo said:

Susie , would this be your forever home? If so, then I do think you should consider buying a kitchen with a desirable layout (ie: location of appliances, overall flow of the space) but needs updating with cabinets and countertops. This could land you more in the middle of renovation costs, and give you what you want with quality and durability.

Kitchen renovations get extremely pricey when you start moving walls, moving appliances, and upgrading appliances.

As an example -
The 2nd kitchen could be left nearly exactly as is with regards to lay out and appliances, but changing cabinets and countertops - maybe landing you somewhere in the $20K range? Then you could make the desk area a more functional space with additional storage. Appliances could be replaced as needed.

Good luck - I have a few friends house hunting right now and it is indeed very challenging.

I completely agree that would be ideal, that just doesn't seem to exist in our market.  I haven't found a single one.    

I have learned not to think in terms of "forever" homes -- we thought we would stay where we are, but I think we were wrong.  This would definitely be a long term home though, for our 1.5 and 5 year olds to grow up in.

[ssmjlm]

I don't think kitchen 2 is bad, but the style is definitely a specific person. Kitchen 3 looks like the put granite on top of crappy cabinets to "update" before listing.

I would probably look more at the overall layout of the houses and if you want 1 or 2 dining areas. I would be in favor of remodeling to add an island, get rid of the "breakfast nook" (maybe keeping it as a small sitting room) and making the dining room the main eating area room and decorating it more casual.

[sicilygirl]

I’ve really liked the kitchen layout in both of our houses. The first was U-shaped with an island and the second L-shaped with an island. I like having counter space opposite each other and within arm’s length-ish. Maybe those smaller kitchens accomplish that without the island due to their size?

Both kitchens have also had a separate built-in bar/buffet. If you’re seeing a lot of kitchens with those built-in desks, it would be pretty easy to convert that. Our first was in the kitchen nook, kind of like in that last house you posted.  Doesn't help with the counter space while cooking, but adds a ton of storage.

Pics for reference:
Old



New

[Velar Fricative]

We have a peninsula kitchen - I'd say it's similar to #2's kitchen but not identical (and not as nice since it's still outdated and we haven't renovated yet). But it looks like they have a lot more space between the fridge and the peninsula than we do, where DH and I often do bump into each other (in ours, the fridge and peninsula are much closer, so if I'm preparing dinner and he needs to go into the fridge, we bump elbows). He hates the closeness, I think it's NBD because I otherwise like our house and kitchen layout a lot. So something that looks like #2 stills provides openness and flexibility but with more space, so I think something like that would work. But that's us. If you are looking for the perfect house and this isn't it and you can't renovate your way to your vision super easily, then that's fine too.

FWIW, when we renovate we can put it an island to fix the closeness problem, but I like the peninsula style better. It just works with the rest of our layout on the main floor (which is all open).

[freshsqueezed]

We have a kitchen similar to 2 and 3 with the peninsula. We hate it. You are right about difficulty reaching some of the cabinets. My husband feels the setup causes congestion or bumping into each other. We are in the middle of planning to rip everything out and remodel. We bought the house with the intent of remodeling to what we want, which is what it sounds like you want to do. I’d suggest looking until you find what you want. Inventory was very low when we bought but I refused to compromise because I planned to be here a long time.

[lessel]

We have a kitchen with a small peninsula. We... do not love it. If the kitchen was overall wider and the peninsula was larger, I think I would like it MUCH more than I currently do.

But the kitchen we left had a huge island and I desperately miss it. Lemme see if I can upload comparison pics.


ETA pics...

Old kitchen:


Current:

The current shot is an in-progress pic. We had the cabinets painted and are still doing finishing touches. Before the cabinets were basically so dark brown they were black and the kitchen felt like a cave.

[Susie]

Thank you all for your feedback, I really appreciate it.  You're all kind of confirming what I thought, which is that those layouts with granite peninsulas are not what I want.  If I found a house with that layout done in laminate (and priced accordingly), that would be a different story, and I'd buy it, rip it out, and get exactly what I want, but that doesn't seem to exist.  In the meantime, we are fortunate to have time on our side, we can wait for better.

[macmars45]

My sister has a kitchen like the first picture. It's too tight between the island and the surrounding cabinets/oven/fridge etc. She and her H plan on remodeling it this year actually.

H and I just moved into a new construction house with a kitchen like the second one you posted. For us it's a upgrade. It's so much bigger with so much more storage than anything we've had before. We have empty cabinets and extra space in our giant pantry currently which is amazing. The cabinet over the peninsula isn't too bad for me to reach (the first 2 shelves are not a problem at all) and I'm 5'2" fwiw.

[wildrice]

I think it's a matter of preference, of course, but the first kitchen reminds me of the kitchen we had in our last apartment (only larger than what we had). I found it felt too small when you'd be in the part between the dishwasher and the island - if you have 2 people in the kitchen, you would be bumping into each other when you're both in that space because it's narrow. I also hated that when I had the dishwasher open, I could open the cabinet opposite it to put stuff away.

I grew up with kitchens more similar to 2 and 3, and while it's not like we never bumped into each other, I found it easier to navigate around a larger middle space. However, I do think that having a bunch of cabinets and a desk outside of the cooking area isn't really ideal and would be kind of a pain.

[hbomdiggity]

In your position, I would not move for kitchen #2 (prob wouldn’t even view it in person) and there would have to be a lot of other checked boxes for #3 to be in consideration.

[ellipses84]

lessel OMG, I thought your kitchen pics were a before and after and it nearly killed me thinking you’d renovate like that. 😆 Your new kitchen is fine, but the space thing is frustrating and your old house was amazing! It would be a crime to cover up those ceilings.

For OP I think you are on the right track. Find a house with a kitchen you love or one the size of the other pics that is outdated, to renovate before you move in, if you can. Some of it comes down to personal preference. We have a square kitchen, open on one side to the dining area, a bar one one side and cabinets on two sides and I love it. I love islands but not if there’s not enough room for two people to pass by each other, so any long and narrow kitchen I dislike, especially if it’s a high traffic pass through.

[circa1978]

I've read a few of your posts and it doesn't seem like there is urgency to move? With a market like yours, I might sit tight for a while and just continue to watch inventory. I think there is a real risk that you'll have to make a major compromise and regret it if you move too fast. I also don't like markets where it seems like prices could bubble out. I don't know you but we've posted on the same board for years and I've always thought you to be very practical and reasoned. You need that in real estate, so listen to that side of yourself. Just my ringside opinion.

[mccallister84]

I’m sure you’d see any houses in person before putting in an offer but add me to the chorus of people who have seen kitchen 1 (it’s what my sister has) and the island is just too big for the space - the pass throughs are very narrow. That’s hard to tell from pictures, especially real estate ones, so it may or may not be true here.

[SusanBAnthony]

This post is confirming that I want different things in a kitchen than all of you, haha.

We have a galley kitchen and I love it! I've loved every galley kitchen I've ever had.

My parents have a layout similar to #2 and #3 and the cabinet over the peninsula is indeed very hard to reach. It is a pretty spacious kitchen but just not as usable.

[savan]

Kitchen #3 is almost exactly our layout, except our stove/oven/microwave are next to the refrigerator where that pantry door is located. We even have the small desk area that houses a computer and has our electronics (router/modem/accesories) housed in the cabinet above. It works perfectly fine for us and we are heavy users of the kitchen. We keep bar stools at the peninsula and our kids eat a lot of meals there. They are currently seated for breakfast there right now. The cabinets above the peninsula are super awkward to reach. In hindsight I would have skipped the cabinets and extended the window. They currently house items that aren't heavily used, like cookbooks and various pans.

[sassystace]

I'd hold out for more of what you really want and then be ready when it comes on the market. More houses will list and this bubble will also burst once the vaccine gets distributed and people aren't so home bound.

[Roc A Bee]

I have an L shape plus island. One side of the L is the pantry and fridge, the other is stove/oven/microwave. The island is where the sink and dishwasher are.

I really like it. It feels open and 2-3 people can cook and not be in the way. I also like the seating at the island as my kids have lunch there plus chill while cooking is happening.

[TBM]

Jan 27, 2021 10:59:54 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

We have a galley kitchen and I love it! I've loved every galley kitchen I've ever had.

I was just watching HGTV, and the woman called the galley kitchen (on the house they wound up buying) a 'booth to booty' kitchen. lol

[definitelyO]

also not a fan of the peninsula in the kitchens you shared - not enough space.
and the "Desk" in the kitchen is a waste of space to me and a clutter magnet (in my house). we have something similar w/o the upper cabinets and it collects backpacks, mail, we sit on it... not efficient use of space for us.

but I also want a new kitchen as ours is so small - I call it a one butt kitchen.

[mellym]

Our kitchen is similar to #2 and I don't love it. I've been dreaming of remodeling it but not sure how to start. The problem we have is we're always bumping into each other and the walkways aren't wide enough from the table into the kitchen, as well as where the two seating areas meet at the peninsula and kitchen table.