Is a backyard reno worth it?

[origami]

We bought a new house late last year. It has a pool, a patio (which is kind of beat up but it’s there) and mature landscaping. So if we wanted to, we could invest zero dollars in it and it would be done. But I hate the way the landscaping was done. There are 14 huge pines, most of which are now dead. There’s almost no yard because of those trees. The fence is very close to the pool so there’s not a lot of space to sit and it’s hard to see into the pool if you’re in the house because the fence is in the way. We also can’t easily access one side of the house from the backyard because of the giant trees. And that’s the side with the pool stuff, so it’s annoying.

I got some landscaping bids. To pull out the trees and move the fence is ~$20K. To add cement or pavers so that there’s space to sit (where the trees used to be) + redoing the existing patio is easily another $20K. (They wanted to tear out all the existing stuff but that’s $30-42K). And that doesn’t include adding back new landscaping to regain some privacy. I could shop around more but contractors are super busy and the prices I got so far are all in line so I think is just what it will take.

I’m trying to scale back on the trees... maybe only remove half...IDK. But I’m still looking at a chunk of change. I know I’ll never recoup this when I sell so I feel like this is probably a bad investment. But I also want to like my yard.

Any advice?

[dr.girlfriend]

Mar 3, 2021 22:13:51 GMT -5 origami said:

We bought a new house late last year. It has a pool, a patio (which is kind of beat up but it’s there) and mature landscaping. So if we wanted to, we could invest zero dollars in it and it would be done. But I hate the way the landscaping was done. There are 14 huge pines, most of which are now dead. There’s almost no yard because of those trees. The fence is very close to the pool so there’s not a lot of space to sit and it’s hard to see into the pool if you’re in the house because the fence is in the way. We also can’t easily access one side of the house from the backyard because of the giant trees. And that’s the side with the pool stuff, so it’s annoying.

I got some landscaping bids. To pull out the trees and move the fence is ~$20K. To add cement or pavers so that there’s space to sit (where the trees used to be) + redoing the existing patio is easily another $20K. (They wanted to tear out all the existing stuff but that’s $30-42K). And that doesn’t include adding back new landscaping to regain some privacy. I could shop around more but contractors are super busy and the prices I got so far are all in line so I think is just what it will take.

I’m trying to scale back on the trees... maybe only remove half...IDK. But I’m still looking at a chunk of change. I know I’ll never recoup this when I sell so I feel like this is probably a bad investment. But I also want to like my yard.

Any advice?

I would first check your zoning...in my area you can only have x% of the lot's surface be covered and so any significant patio would have put us over.  Between your house and pool and existing patio you already sound like you don't have much wiggle room if you have a similar restriction.  Better to know in advance and then if you have a limitation on how big it can be that can help you guide the placement or decide if it's even worth it.

[sandandsea]

We are spending $$$ on a full yard renovation. It will make our backyard more of an outdoor living area so we can use it more. Also we are making it more low maintenance and drought tolerant. We want to stay In Our home long term and honestly will maybe get a 30-40% return on it but it is worth it to us to have more useful space and a place to enjoy, relax and recharge at home. We also have no debt besides the mortgage, are paying in cash, and using a small percentage of our total savings to do it. If that weren’t the case we wouldn’t be doing it.

[origami]

Mar 3, 2021 23:11:13 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

Mar 3, 2021 22:13:51 GMT -5 origami said:

We bought a new house late last year. It has a pool, a patio (which is kind of beat up but it’s there) and mature landscaping. So if we wanted to, we could invest zero dollars in it and it would be done. But I hate the way the landscaping was done. There are 14 huge pines, most of which are now dead. There’s almost no yard because of those trees. The fence is very close to the pool so there’s not a lot of space to sit and it’s hard to see into the pool if you’re in the house because the fence is in the way. We also can’t easily access one side of the house from the backyard because of the giant trees. And that’s the side with the pool stuff, so it’s annoying.

I got some landscaping bids. To pull out the trees and move the fence is ~$20K. To add cement or pavers so that there’s space to sit (where the trees used to be) + redoing the existing patio is easily another $20K. (They wanted to tear out all the existing stuff but that’s $30-42K). And that doesn’t include adding back new landscaping to regain some privacy. I could shop around more but contractors are super busy and the prices I got so far are all in line so I think is just what it will take.

I’m trying to scale back on the trees... maybe only remove half...IDK. But I’m still looking at a chunk of change. I know I’ll never recoup this when I sell so I feel like this is probably a bad investment. But I also want to like my yard.

Any advice?

I would first check your zoning...in my area you can only have x% of the lot's surface be covered and so any significant patio would have put us over.  Between your house and pool and existing patio you already sound like you don't have much wiggle room if you have a similar restriction.  Better to know in advance and then if you have a limitation on how big it can be that can help you guide the placement or decide if it's even worth it.

There’s still grass. We’re not covering the whole yard. I made it sound like we’re paving where every tree was. But really we’d just be extending the pool deck on one side and beyond that is grass. The existing patio they want to tear up goes the length of the house and a sidewalk along 1 side, which is why it’s so expensive. I could leave that but the new stuff can’t be matched to it, and it has all these unnecessary steps in it that reduce seating space.

[origami]

Mar 4, 2021 1:57:59 GMT -5 sandandsea said:

We are spending $$$ on a full yard renovation. It will make our backyard more of an outdoor living area so we can use it more. Also we are making it more low maintenance and drought tolerant. We want to stay In Our home long term and honestly will maybe get a 30-40% return on it but it is worth it to us to have more useful space and a place to enjoy, relax and recharge at home. We also have no debt besides the mortgage, are paying in cash, and using a small percentage of our total savings to do it. If that weren’t the case we wouldn’t be doing it.

that’s awesome. I think mentally I struggle with this because we live in Michigan. So at most we’re using this space 6 months. 4.5m for the pool. If I lived in a warmer climate it would be more of a no brainer.

[origami]

This is the current yard - cropped to the property line

[carmenere]

Get an arborist to look at your trees so you can prioritize removing the ones that are at risk of falling. If your bids were from a landscaping company, you might get lower bids from a company that just does trees.

[simpsongal]

Sounds like a safety issue, so they probably should come down. Ditto getting multiple bids.

Landscaping vexes me as a homeowner. We've spent A LOT on landscaping and I know we won't get most of that money back. But it makes us happy and definitely improves the look/enjoyment of our property. But I truly don't understand why the condition of a yard seems to have so little effect on home value.

[icedcoffee]

Our landscaping has been such a headache. We've been here 6 years and we have piecemealed changes together this whole time. Doing a lot by ourselves and a little bit outsourced.

At this point, we've spent quite a bit of time and quite a bit of money and it still looks like shit and makes me stressed out to sit there. I wish 6 years ago we had just hired someone to overhaul the whole thing. I say do it. Especially because you have a pool. You want to be able to go out there and enjoy it and not be stressed by it. Do it now so you can sit by the pool this summer with a cocktail.

Pines have very shallow roots and fall easily in storms even when they look healthy so if you really think they are dead I would do this ASAP.

[origami]

Mar 4, 2021 8:49:43 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Get an arborist to look at your trees so you can prioritize removing the ones that are at risk of falling. If your bids were from a landscaping company, you might get lower bids from a company that just does trees.

I probably could get the tree removal price knocked down a bit. But that’s a small part of the overall price, unfortunately. The fence is ~$11K and the cost of pavers & cement are currently outrageous for some Covid reason I don’t fully understand. If I really tried to save money, I’d have to skip the patio part of the reno 

[origami]

This is wrong but, if no one got hurt, I would be thrilled if those trees fell into the pool so my insurance would pay. Sigh.

[InBetweenDays]

Well, there is being "worth it" from a resale perspective and there is being "worth it" in terms of being able to enjoy and be happy with your yard. And the latter is of course dependent on your priorities, your financial situation, etc.

We just did a pretty hefty patio project (and yes, concrete/hardscaping is expensive!) and for us it is totally worth it. Hard to say if we'll recoup the cost - it is a vast improvement and I think it will add value but I'm not sure it will add as much as we put in. BUT, we plan to be in the house for many years so for us it was more about being able to enjoy our yard and also make it a place our kids want to hang out with friends.

[marie]

So you have not had a summer in the house, correct? Did you get to use the pool last year? I might do it in steps, with taking down the trees first. You may want to experience the summer and get a feel for what you are really looking for in terms of the layout.

[origami]

Mar 4, 2021 11:59:42 GMT -5 marie said:

So you have not had a summer in the house, correct? Did you get to use the pool last year? I might do it in steps, with taking down the trees first. You may want to experience the summer and get a feel for what you are really looking for in terms of the layout.

Yah we had 1 week of a pool before we had to close it, so not much of a summer and we didn’t use it at all in the fall since we have zero patio furniture or a fire pit. I could definitely take the trees out first and then sit on it. Moving the fence would cause issues with the patio reno so I’d have to suck up a summer of hardly anywhere to sit. But that’s not the worst thing in the world of course. 

eta and for all I know contractors are too backed up to do it all before the summer anyway

[wanderingback]

Are you planning to stay there long term? 10+ years?
Obviously no one can predict the future, but do you think you might move in the next few years?

If you're planning to stay there long term then I think it's worth it to renovate in to a nicer area. Especially since you have a pool, it seems like you'll want to spend time out there, so you might as well make it a space you can enjoy. 

I know nothing about major back yard renovations, but hopefully you can shop around for different quotes. Even if you have to save up the money for a year or 2, if you're going to be there for awhile it'd be worth it in my opinion. 

[lacey]

If the trees are really dead I’d prioritize getting them taken down this spring and putting in some new privacy plants. I’d push off the fence until fall to see how bad it really is with the yard opened up from the removed trees. If it’s awful pull the trigger on the fence in the fall (or whenever you decide you can’t live with it) and hardscape either next year or in the fall depending on $ and whether there is any benefit to getting it all done together. I certainly think there is value is making the outdoors more enjoyable. But if this isn’t something you definitely want to throw a bunch of money at I’d spread out the cost a bit.

[icedcoffee]

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to split it into 2 projects. First to take out the trees and second to do everything else. They are likely different contractors and if you give it a year before phase 2 you can live with it to really be sure you know what you want and also prices may come down as COVID phases out? (Probably hopeful thinking LOL).

We had originally planned to redo our kitchen before moving in and in some ways I’m glad we didn’t because now I have a better idea of what I want.

[ssmjlm]

I would have a tree removal company come out and give you a couple bids. Then I would maybe see about getting some dirt put over the area the trees were, but taking out that many trees, your yard is going to settle quite a bit in the next few years as the stuff in the ground decays. We had this issue in our front yard in our old house because we removed some bigger trees.

Then maybe in a year or so, I would look into landscaping.

[gaudi]

I would have an arborist check the trees and take care of anything that is a safety concern immediately.

I wouldn't do anything else until you have lived through all the seasons. We have a similar set up with lots of trees around the pool and it changes so much throughout the year. When you know what you want, get multiple bids and hire it out.

[origami]

Thx! Got an arborist coming on Monday.

[treedimensional]

I think you should hire a landscape designer or landscape architect first.
They can develop a vision and draw a plan. They will work with you on budget and order of priorities (most people can't afford to execute an entire design all at once). Then you can talk to your bank if you want to move it along quickly.

I believe a landscaper will charge less for tree removal, because they can sell you other services to make money, and a tree service may not be able to do anything else except trees. However, tree removal is dangerous for people without specific expertise, and if they are injured/die and don't have insurance, they can sue you (and win) for knowingly hiring unqualified contractors to do a dangerous job. The single most important thing you need to verify when hiring a tree removal contractor is INSURANCE.

I should also say that arborists are just like people in other professions, in that some of them suck. Most of them maintain certification by the bare minimum. They don't care about learning new things. I always ask them the last conference they attended, and what speaker they remember. Most can't say anything.

Anyone interested in finding an arborist can do so here:
www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist

[origami]

Mar 6, 2021 8:33:37 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

I think you should hire a landscape designer or landscape architect first.
They can develop a vision and draw a plan. They will work with you on budget and order of priorities (most people can't afford to execute an entire design all at once). Then you can talk to your bank if you want to move it along quickly.

I believe a landscaper will charge less for tree removal, because they can sell you other services to make money, and a tree service may not be able to do anything else except trees. However, tree removal is dangerous for people without specific expertise, and if they are injured/die and don't have insurance, they can sue you (and win) for knowingly hiring unqualified contractors to do a dangerous job. The single most important thing you need to verify when hiring a tree removal contractor is INSURANCE.

I should also say that arborists are just like people in other professions, in that some of them suck. Most of them maintain certification by the bare minimum. They don't care about learning new things. I always ask them the last conference they attended, and what speaker they remember. Most can't say anything.

Anyone interested in finding an arborist can do so here:
www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist

I did hire a designer/architect! That’s where the numbers in my OP came from. The design firm’s subcontracting the trees, fence, etc. If I did everything on the plan it would be ~120K. The initial budget I gave him was $50-60, but I told them I’d like to see a “full” plan just to know what could be done. I’m scaling it back to my original budget, and even that is making me question if I should do it or just suck it up and live with a backyard I don’t love.

Thank you for the link. I’ll check to see if the ppl coming are on this list.

[af1212]

Mar 6, 2021 8:33:37 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

I think you should hire a landscape designer or landscape architect first.
They can develop a vision and draw a plan. They will work with you on budget and order of priorities (most people can't afford to execute an entire design all at once). Then you can talk to your bank if you want to move it along quickly.

I believe a landscaper will charge less for tree removal, because they can sell you other services to make money, and a tree service may not be able to do anything else except trees. However, tree removal is dangerous for people without specific expertise, and if they are injured/die and don't have insurance, they can sue you (and win) for knowingly hiring unqualified contractors to do a dangerous job. The single most important thing you need to verify when hiring a tree removal contractor is INSURANCE.

I should also say that arborists are just like people in other professions, in that some of them suck. Most of them maintain certification by the bare minimum. They don't care about learning new things. I always ask them the last conference they attended, and what speaker they remember. Most can't say anything.

Anyone interested in finding an arborist can do so here:
www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist

What does it mean if someone’s name is not on this list, but in their business communications next to their name it says “ISA Certified Arborist” and then a number?

[treedimensional]

Mar 6, 2021 19:17:32 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Mar 6, 2021 8:33:37 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Anyone interested in finding an arborist can do so here:
www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist

What does it mean if someone’s name is not on this list, but in their business communications next to their name it says “ISA Certified Arborist” and then a number?

Cross reference. Check their name or the certification number here:

www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/verify

If they're not there, they're lying.

[af1212]

Mar 6, 2021 19:25:12 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Mar 6, 2021 19:17:32 GMT -5 af1212 said:

What does it mean if someone’s name is not on this list, but in their business communications next to their name it says “ISA Certified Arborist” and then a number?

Cross reference. Check their name or the certification number here:

www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/verify

If they're not there, they're lying.

Thank you just checked and he is there - all of his info matches.