Need help on money decision

[waverly]

We took some money out of our mortgage to add in a bathroom. It is an exterior 2nd floor build and the quotes are coming in higher than we would like at 85k.

Options are 1. Go ahead with the bathroom
2. Live with 1.5 bathroom but @ kids are 8 and 10 and the idea was to do this before they are teenagers
3. Pay off student loans from DH’s MBA program, but we do really need a bathroom
4. Buy another house but there are no good options. DH is very picky and this is his dream historic house in a great location. The housing market is overpriced right now.
5. Chuck it all and start over somewhere else with no jobs (mostly joking)
6. Buy a vacation lake house? Not a ton of options in our lower price range

Only other debt is car loans. Salaries are good. Retirement looks good.
We will probably do the bathroom but DH is having a hard time swallowing the pill. He is indecisive, and I think if he was more decisive than I would go with what he thought. I’m out of ideas so I thought I would crowdsource. My ideas are more how to do it cheaper but there really isn’t a good way to do that. He is having a hard time due to the amount of money and feeling more locked in.

[imojoebunny]

How much is a bigger house in your area? Here, a 2.5 bath 3 bed wouldn't be anywhere near 85K more than a 1.5 bath 3 bed, since lot value is high, so the differential between older houses is pretty minimal.

Is there a way to add a full bath onto the main floor more economically, like a mudroom style bath, that would be less expensive to add, but still give you the second full bath that could be used by a teen, and make sense for the layout, even if it in a less convenient location?

Our old house had a master upstairs, and only the master, and we used it as a second den, and slept downstairs, but to get dressed, we went up to the master bathroom and closet. I actually really liked it, since I didn't hear every move DH made in the morning when he got up before me, and it was nice to have the tv on in the master bedroom, turned second den, when you were getting ready. You would have the reverse of that, with the extra bath off the kitchen or wherever on the main floor. It would probably still be $40K, but that is a lot less than $85K, if it would give you the functionality you need. It isn't hard to train yourself or your kids to bring clothes to change into, but if you did mudroom style, you could have a closet in there to, for clothes, for whomever was the main user.

I would not buy a vacation place. We have one, and while I like it, I won't lie, it is hard sometimes with school age kids.

[ohgillian]

This is tough. What did you think the bathroom was going to come in at? Are there any options for a historic structure tax credit to lower the net cost? Could you expand the current half bath in some way that would stay a half bath but be more useful?

[chpmnk1015]

So you have 1.5 now.. can you expand the half bath to a full.. maybe less cost and gives you the second bathroom..and if any left over pay some to the student loans or whatever is at the higher rate? (Car or student loans)

[cricketwife]

We have 1 bath and it’s a huge reason that I would like to move. However, I’d really struggle to spend $85k to have another bath. I feel like it depends on what the house is currently worth, how much equity you have vs how much mortgage remains. It’s sounds like you are pretty secure. This is a hard one because that’s a lot of money for a bathroom, but it’s your H’s dream house so I wouldn’t want to move either. And I’d be tempted to pay $85k just to be able to stay out of the crazy market right now anyway.

So I think I would hate it but I would do it if I really wanted the bathroom. But I would try to explore other options (like a first floor bath) that would be cheaper. 

[Susie]

That's tough.  I also live in a house with 1.5 bath and two kids, but my kids are still 5 and 1.  My dad is also talking about moving in with us, but for now only does extended visits (well, til covid, but will again now that he's fully vaxx'ed.). I can see the challenge coming, but it hasn't hit full on yet.

We thought about all kinds of reno ideas, but ended up settling on #4.  We're buying another house.  The market here is tight too, but we went under contract last weekend to buy, and will be listing our house for sale in about 1.5-2 weeks.  

Both the value of the purchase and our projected sale price are inflated due to the current market, but I don't necessarily think the delta is that out of whack with normal.  I expect the difference between new house purchase price and old house sale price to be in the ballpark of $130k-$150k.  For that price delta, the difference from current to new house will be:
- an extra .36 acre, going from .25 to .61
- roughly +350 sq. ft.
- a master bath, going from 1.5 to 2.5
- a first floor laundry room, vs. basement laundry
- a larger basement (full vs. partial)
- a 2 car garage (vs. 1 car)
- a more expensive neighborhood, which doesn't inherently add value, but it gives me more flexibility to improve in the future without hitting a ceiling on value.  We will have a smaller/less expensive house in the neighborhood now, instead of being one of the larger.

The addition we were thinking of doing probably would've been in the $75k-100k range, maybe more due to inflated materials costs right now.  Moving seems like a much better deal even though it costs more.

[goldengirlz]

Other than finding someone to do it cheaper, I think it could be worth it if it adds to the value of the house. I can definitely see why that price is giving you sticker shock, but it sounds like you weighed your options and renovating would give you greater ROI than moving. So it’s an investment that you may be able to recoup — and even if this is your forever home, it’s still cheaper than moving, which has TONS of hidden expenses.

[waverly]

I’ve thrown out other bathroom ideas, but DH doesn’t love them. Maybe if he got an actual quote between adding on a shower on the 1.5 and the master bathroom. I think adding into the ground floor bathroom would be tricky since I think it’s already an addition because probably there were outhouses back then ha ha, but it’s doable for a price and we would probably lose some windows.

I’ve also thrown out basement, attic (it’s fully finished) and moving DS’s wall for a super small bathroom. Maybe I need to measure and sketch them out for him to decide.

[kershnic]

A house just down the block from me is under contract, and I am super curious to see what the actual sale price is. The house is VERY similar to mine, except that it has 2.5 bathrooms, whereas mine has 1.5, and it has a 2 car garage whereas I have a one car garage and a 2 car driveway. Square footage, number of rooms, layout, quality of finishes, yard, almost everything else is super comparable. House is listed for $75k more than the Zestimate for my house currently, and $95k more than I paid for my house in 2018.

I really want another bathroom (and a 2-car garage), but right now I'm not willing to pay $100k to get it. But if you don't have another need for this money, and it will truly make your house into your actual dream house, it may be worth it.

[marie]

Can you table it for a year? I heard all reno prices are a bit inflated right now because of the demand. My friends renovated and she said the cost of lumber was through the roof compared to years ago.

[waverly]

Some answers to your questions- DH was expecting it to come in at 60-65k, so it is coming in about 20-25k higher than he thought. This is the first time we have gotten quotes though. We built the house with the intention of adding on the bathroom 10 years ago but never got quotes for it back then.

DH confirmed this would be his dream house with the bathroom. Unless we move out of state there is no reason to move to a different house in our area. The house and location check all our other boxes. And there isn’t any point in changing school districts. Inventory in our area is low and requires work and they are not historic downtown type houses- more suburban which DH doesn’t like.

Do we need the money for other things? It would be nice to use the money to other things but we don’t necessarily have to. The price of the house has gone up quite a bit in the 10 years since we bought it and would go up with the bathroom addition. I don’t think it would go up 85k from today’s price to the value with the bathroom. But the value of the home would go up about 85k from the time we bought it 10 years ago if that makes any sense.

I think he is just really twerked by the unexpected estimates and feeling locked in. We talked about the purchase price and selling price today just to make sure it wouldn’t be a total mistake. We wouldn’t be underwater, and we have some savings if we needed to sell and pay an agent. I’m mentioning that because we tried to buy a house before this one and the seller couldn’t afford to sell (underwater, back taxes, HELOC, and couldn’t pay his agent). So of course we wouldn’t want that situation.

[krystee]

I would probably table the renovation for a year. The cost of supplies is super inflated right now, so waiting a bit could probably result in a big savings.

Have you investigated how much more it would be to blow out a basement with either a living area or bedroom and bath (or all three)? I’d be inclined to pay more to get more rather than $85K for just a bath.

[waverly]

Thank you. I will bring up the basement and tabling issue to DH again.

[dr.girlfriend]

Apr 2, 2021 8:22:37 GMT -5 marie said:

Can you table it for a year? I heard all reno prices are a bit inflated right now because of the demand. My friends renovated and she said the cost of lumber was through the roof compared to years ago.

This was my suggestion.  I think construction prices are probably peaking right about now.  I would not pay $85k just for another bath.

[babsbunny]

Is the second bathroom required for your DH to consider it his dream home after the kids go off to college?

My aunt has a lovely old home in a city and put a self standing 3-walled shower in the basement (looks like it just needed some plumbing for water and draining). It is ugly, but is exactly what I would do too if I could spend 10k to hold me over for 10 years.

Good luck!

[ellipses84]

I’d consider some other options. Get more quotes or wait a year since construction labor and material prices are really high right now. Everyone wants to renovate since they are home so much. Consider other options for a more cost effective location for the bath room. Do you have a 1.5 now and want to go to to 2.5 or would you consider an extra half bath? Most teenagers I know only take showers and would travel to any part of the house if it meant having their own bathroom.

What helps me with these decisions sometimes is breaking it down, and I’m ok prioritizing / spending on house renovations that improve your daily life rather than waiting. How much does that end up costing you per month or per day and if it’s worth that to your convenience and you can afford it, don’t get stuck on the overall price. Ask yourself what price you would be comfortable with. Is $10k or whatever the overage is going to make a difference in the long run, either in expense or getting what you truly want vs. settling?

[waverly]

Apr 3, 2021 10:55:55 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

Is the second bathroom required for your DH to consider it his dream home after the kids go off to college?

My aunt has a lovely old home in a city and put a self standing 3-walled shower in the basement (looks like it just needed some plumbing for water and draining). It is ugly, but is exactly what I would do too if I could spend 10k to hold me over for 10 years.

Good luck!

I think so...

[waverly]

Apr 3, 2021 14:43:43 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

I’d consider some other options. Get more quotes or wait a year since construction labor and material prices are really high right now. Everyone wants to renovate since they are home so much. Consider other options for a more cost effective location for the bath room. Do you have a 1.5 now and want to go to to 2.5 or would you consider an extra half bath? Most teenagers I know only take showers and would travel to any part of the house if it meant having their own bathroom.

What helps me with these decisions sometimes is breaking it down, and I’m ok prioritizing / spending on house renovations that improve your daily life rather than waiting. How much does that end up costing you per month or per day and if it’s worth that to your convenience and you can afford it, don’t get stuck on the overall price. Ask yourself what price you would be comfortable with. Is $10k or whatever the overage is going to make a difference in the long run, either in expense or getting what you truly want vs. settling?

I’ll mention to him that kids can use bathroom located elsewhere not him. He doesn’t want to walk all over the house. I’ll also take a look at the monthly cost.

I feel like we spend more for cars which depreciate, so why not put the cost into a house that holds it value? But the monthly cost is a good point because we are paying off a few things that will leave room for monthly costs.

[simpsongal]

I’d wait and shop around for more bids (try word of mouth for cheaper contractors).

Fwiw, I had 2 brothers growing up and my family of 5 pretty much shared 1 bathroom.

[abs]

I'd table it for now. I know you are in a HCOL of living but that seems very high. I think if you wait a bit the price of supplies won't be quite as high.

FWIW we have 3.5 bathrooms. The only time a shower other than ours gets used is when my MIL stays with us. I keep thinking DD will want more privacy any day now but nope. She likes using our shower.

[Velar Fricative]

That seems really steep but I suppose it could be because of increased cost of materials. Here's what I would do:

1) Shop around for other quotes and if the only option ends up remaining this plan on the second floor, table it for another year if you can.

2) The attic sounds great! Presumably it's one floor up from where the bedrooms are and if it's fully finished, it probably wouldn't be that costly. But if the attic is a no, then...

3) Reconsider the basement. When we moved here, we had 1.5 bathrooms, which was more than the 1 bathroom we had growing up as a family of 6 so I was fine with that. But DH grew up with more than that so our plan was to finish the basement and make sure to add a full bathroom when that happened. 2.5 years after moving in, that's what we did. Not sure if your basement is finished or not, but I think that's a good option that would probably cost less, OR you'd be getting a finished basement out of the project which is also valuable. DH actually prefers to shower down there even though we have two other showers upstairs now (we added a master bath last year, which wasn't really in the plan back when we added the basement bath) because it's larger and he doesn't care about schlepping clothes and stuff down there for that reason.

[waverly]

We have shopped for other quotes. It’s difficult to even get contractors to call us back. The other quote we got was 95 and didn’t include heat which was weird.

My co-worker got her basement done and it was 150k, not sure why it was so high but it is really nice. So I wouldn’t assume basement would be cheaper because of subterranean pipes and leveling the floor and we have to remove our cistern which is 10k by itself- 10 inch concrete- got to love a historic house.

I’ll pitch the other locations again in the house. I’ve brought up the attic several times but I’ll bring it up again since he is still deciding. I think the attic might be the cheapest. Expanding the powder room would include foundation work which my assumption would be pricier than the attic. It would knock out or guest bedroom but we could put that awkwardly in the basement. My mom is the only one that stays there anyway.

[ellipses84]

Oh yeah, putting the bathroom in an existing room on a main level will probably be cheapest, especially if it’s near plumbing. Then use the remaining space to add stairs to the attic, or extra closet space and add a room to the basement. The one consideration there would be to make sure it has what it needs to count as a bedroom for real estate resale (window closet, consider an egress window or exterior door for a basement).

[mich1]

I'd wait on renovations in the hope that prices go down. Right now, lumber is at an all time high. I'm very glad that we did the work on the house that needed to be done last year. I'd hate to know what the siding and deck would cost us now.

Plan B would be to look at what would be involved in turning your half bath into a 3/4 bath by installing a shower stall. It might handle the increased traffic from older kids. It also might be a stop gap measure until later.