What is reasonable to ask for after this inspection? updated

[expectantsteelerfan]

We are under contract to buy a house, and our inspection was yesterday.  This is only our 2nd time buying, and we've never sold, so I'm curious as to what others would think is reasonable in this situation (knowing it's totally a sellers market right now too).

The house was built in 2000, so it's 21 years old.  Sellers have only lived there since 2018.  When we went to see the house, we were told they had just had all the bricks repointed, had the concrete driveway leveled and repaired, hvac was updated when they moved in, and the roof had been recently replaced.  That all sounded great.

When we signed the offer, the roof work was listed as 'undocumented' with no details given.

When we signed the contract and were given the disclosure, the roof was listed as installed in 2000 with no updates.  So we asked our realtor, who said they had only repaired a part of it and weren't sure how to list that, so they had left it blank, and we'd deal with it in inspection.

Inspection showed that the entire roof (this is a 5,000 sq ft house) was original with no repairs/updates made whatsoever.  BUT the roof is in acceptable condition.  He said there were some areas that showed more wear than others (likely from getting more direct sunlight), but we should get another 5-10 years out of this roof.  So nothing technically needs done now, but at the same time, we are now buying a house with a roof that will need replaced in the next 5-10 years when we originally went into this thinking we were buying a house that just had the roof replaced due to what the sellers said.  

So is it appropriate to ask for anything at this point, since technically nothing needs to be done to the roof at the moment?

The only other things we are planning to ask for has to do with the hvac.  When they said they updated when they moved in, we learned that meant they added supplemental heating/air conditioning units because the original units weren't efficient at heating/cooling the whole house.  So there are 2 furnaces, 1 original and 1 installed in 2018, and 2 air conditioners, 1 original and 1 installed 2018.  The inspection likewise showed that the original units are functioning, but old and likely to be near the end of their lifespan.  So we are thinking of asking the sellers to have the original units serviced by hvac people just to ensure they are in good functioning order.

The only defective thing that showed up on the inspection were the jets in the master bath tub, but we aren't planning to ask for anything with that because we will likely never use the master bath tub (and it functions fine to fill/drain, just the jets don't work), and will have the master bath redone at some point and take the tub out entirely.   The inspection also showed some minor issues like interior doors that don't latch properly, 1 window that sticks when opening, and caulking around plumbing in a bathroom that he suggested we replace those fixtures at some point.  

We won't walk away even if the sellers say no to fixing ANYTHING, but we do feel like we should at least ask, but we aren't sure what specifically would be reasonable to ask for, so any opinions appreciated. 

[aprilsails]

How much would the full roof replacement cost? I would ask for maybe $2000 off the price, to reflect the cost of likely roof repairs in the short term, which they implied had been done and which would likely be imminent. .

On our first house we moved in when it was 12 years old thinking we had a long time on the roof. Joke was on us, 5 months later it was raining in our bedroom. Now the storm damage appeared to be limited to a small area but once we took a good look we found the original build did not meet code (2’ of water barrier above the eaves as compared to 6’), so we were likely to have more issues quickly as the shingles aged if there was any water damming in winter, so we replaced the whole thing all at once. Not what we were expecting 5 months in!

[aspentosh]

I am shocked that a roof that is 21 years old (with no signs of repairs) still has 5-10 years left. All our contractors have told us that 20 years is about the life expectancy of roofs. Maybe your material is different?

I might ask the inspector to give me a price quote for what the "more worn" areas would cost to fix and see what that number is. If it's not unreasonable you could ask them to cover that, or even just split it.

We had some shingles blow off our roof in a pretty bad storm a few years ago and it only cost a few hundred to fix. So if your roof is shingles and they could do that, it might give you some peace of mind, too.

[penguingrrl]

I would be very concerned. Not because of the need to replace a roof or the HVAC, as those are normal parts of home ownership, but at them blatantly lying about repairs and deliberately misrepresenting things about the house. Why were they only there 3 years? What did they ostensibly put so much work in (that you can’t prove) just to move? I’d be wary about this transaction and about what else they’re hiding.

[origami]

I would ask them to pay for a home warranty. A good one. I’m not sure if those cover roofs but I believe they cover HVAC at least, and hopefully a lot more that might be a bad surprise later.

[circa1978]

Well, the good news is that seems like you actually got a pretty problem-free report. Everything is in working order and will need to be replaced eventually. I also wouldn't be shocked if they maybe legitimately don't have the full story on the history of the house. Three years is not that long and it sounds like they really did do costly stuff in that time.

The HVAC doesn't bother me. They did make significant updates.

In our area, when you go into a house for listing there is a printout with all the MSL info and the disclosures are available. It sounds like that's not the case where you are so when you say you were told there was a new roof - who told you? Was it on the listing papers? Because that would be a misrepresentation and I'd take it up with them. If it was said in passing by your realtor or theirs, I wouldn't be that upset. A roof on a 5,000  square foot home is quite an investment - I hope it isn't a ranch - so I'd be ready for that but 5-10 years is a good time; you might not even be living there then.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Apr 27, 2021 7:50:58 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I would be very concerned. Not because of the need to replace a roof or the HVAC, as those are normal parts of home ownership, but at them blatantly lying about repairs and deliberately misrepresenting things about the house. Why were they only there 3 years? What did they ostensibly put so much work in (that you can’t prove) just to move? I’d be wary about this transaction and about what else they’re hiding.

It's a corporate relocation, which are really common around here.  Because the location company pays for them to move, our contract is technically with them, which is where I think some of the miscommunication is coming from.

Our realtor told us 'roof was updated' when we first saw it, but I need to verify with her where she got that info. from.

The inspector isn't able to give any sort of quotes, so our best option is probably to have a certified roofer out to inspect the roof and give estimates for any repairs or what it would cost to replace the whole thing (ballparking off what it cost to replace the roof on our 2,000 sq ft home 6 years ago, I'm guessing anywhere between $20K-$30K for a whole replacement.  

My first instinct was to ask for maybe up to $5,000 credit towards repairs in the roof since they misrepresented it, but I am still nervous to ask for even that since the inspection didn't show that it actually NEEDED any repairs.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Apr 27, 2021 8:06:38 GMT -5 circa1978 said:

Well, the good news is that seems like you actually got a pretty problem-free report. Everything is in working order and will need to be replaced eventually. I also wouldn't be shocked if they maybe legitimately don't have the full story on the history of the house. Three years is not that long and it sounds like they really did do costly stuff in that time.

The HVAC doesn't bother me. They did make significant updates.

In our area, when you go into a house for listing there is a printout with all the MSL info and the disclosures are available. It sounds like that's not the case where you are so when you say you were told there was a new roof - who told you? Was it on the listing papers? Because that would be a misrepresentation and I'd take it up with them. If it was said in passing by your realtor or theirs, I wouldn't be that upset. A roof on a 5,000  square foot home is quite an investment - I hope it isn't a ranch - so I'd be ready for that but 5-10 years is a good time; you might not even be living there then.

Yeah here, nothing like disclosures is available usually until you are under contract.  Sometimes if a sale falls through after an inspection is done, they can make that inspection available for new potential buyers, but we got a form that the sellers (and in this case the relocation company based on what the sellers told them) filled out when we put in our offer, and then the official disclosure when they accepted our offer and we were signing the contract.  The official disclosure does not mention anything about any repairs/work on the roof.  
It's not a ranch, but we are hoping this is going to be our forever home, so the plan is to be there when all this stuff will need replaced.  We do understand that replacing these things are part of homeownership, but we put in our offer thinking the roof was in much newer condition than it really is.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 27, 2021 8:21:43 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

Apr 27, 2021 7:50:58 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I would be very concerned. Not because of the need to replace a roof or the HVAC, as those are normal parts of home ownership, but at them blatantly lying about repairs and deliberately misrepresenting things about the house. Why were they only there 3 years? What did they ostensibly put so much work in (that you can’t prove) just to move? I’d be wary about this transaction and about what else they’re hiding.

It's a corporate relocation, which are really common around here.  Because the location company pays for them to move, our contract is technically with them, which is where I think some of the miscommunication is coming from.

Our realtor told us 'roof was updated' when we first saw it, but I need to verify with her where she got that info. from.

The inspector isn't able to give any sort of quotes, so our best option is probably to have a certified roofer out to inspect the roof and give estimates for any repairs or what it would cost to replace the whole thing (ballparking off what it cost to replace the roof on our 2,000 sq ft home 6 years ago, I'm guessing anywhere between $20K-$30K for a whole replacement.  

My first instinct was to ask for maybe up to $5,000 credit towards repairs in the roof since they misrepresented it, but I am still nervous to ask for even that since the inspection didn't show that it actually NEEDED any repairs.

Okay, that makes more sense. Corporate relocations are super rare where I am, so someone spending only 3 years in a home would be a red flag here.

I spent $20K on a new roof last summer. My house is about 2,200 SF and not a ranch, but has some tricky spots (1920s Tudor, so some interesting roofline stuff). I’m also in a HCOL area, so that would factor in as well. I would guess at least $20-30K. 

It also sounds like you aren’t getting formal disclosures, but rather word of mouth, which changes it a lot.

[circa1978]

I feel bad saying this because the situation sucks and I'm sympathetic but if it was your realtor who told you, I'd get a pretty firm answer from them on where they heard it before I asked for a concession due to the seller's misrepresentation. IMO the seller isn't responsible for what your realtor told you if it wasn't listed somewhere or the other realtor specifically said it to them. If the real estate market is dramatically different where you are, your mileage may vary but in my market, I'd let it go. There are so many terrible things that can be found in an inspection - and I feel like our past inspections as homeowners have turned them all up over the years, lol - yours sounds really clean.

[darby]

Honestly, based on what you said I wouldn’t ask for anything. I’m not sure where you are, but in my market you are lucky to have gotten the home with an inspection contingency. The price of an HVAC service is not enough to have bad feelings for the rest of the deal if you are saying you would be okay if they do nothing. Aging items in the home is part of the cost of owning one and the inspector said everything is fine for now. I would not be happy if you asked me (as the homeowner) for something that trivial in a sellers market. It sounds like you’re getting a great home that you love! Congratulations!

[ktw]

This is tricky. I totally understand and empathize with this: "we put in our offer thinking the roof was in much newer condition than it really is." But, I can tell you that as a seller, in a seller's market, we were very put off when one set of buyers first wanted us to replace our entire functioning septic system because their septic inspector indicated that it "might fail in 6 years". It's a long story that I won't go into unless you want more details, but it really soured us on working with them to be asked to replace something that wasn't even broken (and, the system was only 6 years old - my husband and father literally watched it be installed when we were buying the house ourselves), when we had others lined up with (and eventually behind) them making offers. And we had reports and conversations with other septic inspectors with entirely different opinions on the status of our system.

If you decide to proceed, I would do so very gingerly, especially given that you would agree to buy the house even if they don't make a concession. Ask your realtor for honest advice, and if you agree to ask for something, ask him/her to present it in a really delicate way.

[Susie]

I can see why you'd be in the disappointed to irked range of feeling about the representations re: roof and HVAC, but I'm honestly not sure either rises to the level of asking for a seller's concession.  On the roof, it's still functioning just fine, and will for another 5-10 years.  I'd want to know more about where the representation originated that it had been repaired, but to me that's kind of part & parcel of buying a house that isn't new construction.  At least some majors are going to be due for repair/replacement in the foreseeable future, and sellers of 20-30 year old houses shouldn't be held to a standard of new/full lifespan on all this stuff.  I say this as both a current seller of a 1985 house and a buyer of a 1994 house.  I'd certainly wish for more than 5-10 more years out of the roof, but I'm not sure it's concession worthy in this market.  I'm also not bothered by a 20 year old roof that has 5-10 more years left.  Our (for sale) house has a 40 year asphalt shingle roof that was put on by the previous owners in the 2000s (I forget the date, but we have a copy of the proposal and we included it with our sale disclosures), and we certainly expect it to have 10+ years of life left.  There will be no concessions for it not being new.

As for the HVAC, as long as it's in good working order, they DID update... I don't really see that as concession worthy either.  I do like the idea of a home warranty, especially since that would offer you some umbrella protection since you're kind of dealing with this at arm's length via the relocation company.  That seems like a reasonable ask, and you can cite all these things as individually falling short of being concession worthy, but collectively giving you pause.

FWIW, we didn't ask for anything on our purchase after inspection.  Items of note were a deck post that was starting to rot, some decking that was reaching end of life, HVAC that is 1994 original, a hot water heater on later legs of life.  But we felt that as long as it all worked, it was all in line with what was represented to us, and is what comes with a house of that age.  A home warranty on their dime would've been nice, but not gonna happen in this market.

[bee20]

Honestly, that is a really good inspection report and as a seller I'd be annoyed if you're asking for things, but it sounds like you are working with the relo company and not the actual owners. My experience buying from a relo company is they are less willing to coordinate stuff like getting an HVAC inspected, but if you come to them with a proposed home warranty or dollar amount you might get it if it's like $500.

But honestly, I wouldn't risk having them go to the next buyer, around here at least prices are continuing to rise and as a relocation company, they don't have the same stress and urgency on selling someone coordinating a move might.

[simpsongal]

Ditto OPs, given the market, I'd probably just move forward and not ask for concessions.

Curious about the brick - why would it need repointing after ~20 years?

I think the bigger HVAC issue could be how the system is zoned and evenly heats/cools the home. I don't think a quick tune up inspection will give you much info on that front. Hopefully they used a good company when adding units and redesigning how the home is heated and cooled.

[wildrice]

I'm certainly no expert, but I agree with the idea of having them purchase a home warranty and that your inspection actually sounds really good. I also think verifying where the idea of the new roof came from. If they misrepresented something that might be a different story.

What does your realtor think? Actually I think my real answer is that as long as you trust them, I'd go with what they recommend. They should know the local market and what's reasonable to ask for better than anyone!

[expectantsteelerfan]

Thanks everyone. I will definitely be talking to my realtor and asking her to verify where the info. about the roof originally came from, and based on her answer, will tread lightly when asking for anything roof related.

I think asking for a 1 year home warranty (especially if we decide we aren't asking for anything with the roof) is a good idea. That would cover anything with hvac going wrong for the 1st year, and then if they make it longer than a year, we will consider ourselves lucky and be prepared for them to need replaced at any time after that. Warranties are pretty common here, especially with the smaller/older homes, at least when the market isn't insane like this. So hopefully asking for one won't completely be out of line and make them hate us.

I will update after we make final decisions. My dh has an important licensing exam today, so we've been waiting to talk to our realtor and respond to the inspection until at least tomorrow because dh didn't want to be stressed about it until after his exam.

[ellipses84]

It sucks you were misinformed, but unless it was in the listing ad, or in writing in the contract documents, I don’t think you have much room for negotiation. The easier thing you can do is say, these are all of our concerns, we’d like a credit and make it small, like $3k (maybe they come back with $1500) or cost of hvac service + home warranty. You can typically renew a home warranty each year for pretty cheap. I know a lot of people don’t like them and you end up paying OOP for upgrades, but if one major item or system needs replacing they can still be very beneficial to you, or extend the life before needing a full replacement. Having the seller provide a 1 year warranty was the norm when I bought a house in my area.

[hbomdiggity]

I would not ask for a concession. There is no current issue that needs to be addressed. As a seller, you are selling a house in working condition. (Though it was custom in both markets we sold in to provide a 1 year warranty for anything else that may pop up.) Otherwise, future repairs and ongoing maintenance is on the buyer and factored into the price. And unless it was obvious that was a relatively new roof, I would have expected that a 20 year old house had a 20 year old roof.

[icedcoffee]

I wouldn't bother having them service the HVAC. They're going to hire their own person who will likely say it's fine It's honestly a waste of time and effort.

I get the disappointment on the roof, but in this market I don't know if you have any leg to stand on. I'd expect a 21 year old house to have a 21 year old roof. We replaced ours in year 33 so you could easily get another 10+ years out of it. FWIW, I think our roof was about 11k.

[boiler717]

I would ask for a home warranty, or you can buy one yourself. I would personally want to know where the discrepancy on the roof is from, but it sounds like they filled out the disclosure appropriately.

[heygrey]

We bought last September - 26 year old house with original roof. It needed replaced within a year. We considered rolling the cost into our mortgage, and were able to get several preliminary quotes from roofing companies based on square footage and google earth pictures! Companies just search the address, looked at photos online and made their best guess. We did replace the roof a few weeks after we moved in, which involved getting a formal quote from a company that came out and actually looked at the roof first. It was $1,000 less than they initially quoted and they said they always pad their guesstimates and rarely need to charge more later.

So if you want to get a ballpark estimate on the roof, you may be able to get a few companies to do a preliminary quote based on photos.

[expectantsteelerfan]

So we ended up only asking for a 1 year home warranty. Our realtor had no further insight as to what happened with being told the roof was updated and then finding out it wasn't, and wasn't confident we would ever get a response about that.

Well, the sellers declined to offer us a home warranty, so our realtor bought it for us herself. She said she is happy to do that to keep the sale moving along smoothly, and I'm definitely grateful.

She shared that the reason the sellers gave for not offering the home warranty is that they had been contacted by the people who made an offer higher than ours. These buyers had asked for 'chattel' along with their offer, and the relocation company responded that they weren't willing to negotiate, so the buyers decided to walk away. But apparently since then, they have contacted the sellers saying if our sale falls through, they'd be happy to remove the chattel request from their offer and still offer a higher price than ours. So yay for our realtor because apparently this was much closer to falling through than I realized!

[notsopicky]

Roof-adjacent (had no advice on the concession question)--when the time comes to replace the roof, contact your insurance company. We bought an 18 year old house in 2015. We knew that the roof would need to be replaced in a year or two (and after we bought it, it sprung leaks in 2 places). We had a roofing company come out, and the rep suggested we contact our insurance company to see if they would cover any of the replacement cost. So we did, and the insurance agent told us that it's one of the little known secrets in the business--that sometimes an insurance company will pay for at least part of a roof replacement. Our company ended up paying for a little more than 1/2! So instead of $15K, we only paid $7K. I was so surprised, and happy for the cost savings.

[krystee]

Also roof related: if you have any hail storm at all, have your roof inspected! We had a hailstorm but had no visible damage. But I saw a neighbor getting a new roof and he mentioned it was free from the hailstorm (insurance paid the whole thing). I had a roofing company come check for hail damage, and they found some. It wasn’t even that bad, yet we got $24K from insurance because in addition to some dings on the roof, there was also one each on two sides of the house. We got a roof and new siding for free, and I would never even have called if I hadn’t seen the other neighbor getting a roof done.

[rocklake]

Be sure to read the fine print in your home warranty. Ours required us to contact the home warranty company to set up HVAC inspections within 60 days of purchasing the home. If we failed to do so, they would not cover any associated HVAC expenses. We have used the warranty for some random leaking pipes and it was very easy. So be sure to always go to your home warranty company to see if any future issues are covered before calling a repair person!