@Getting a doctorate later in life

[lizlemon19]

Does anyone have experience or advice on getting a doctorate later in life? I turn 40 this year and have three children. I have been considering but also daunted. I am a social worker with an MSW. I also am the primary breadwinner. I still have loans from undergrad (under 10k). My oldest will be graduating high school in 5 years and we do not have a lot saved. I also am overwhelmed with the idea of a dissertation. I have looked into a DSW, which does not require it. I would love to teach at the college level. An advanced degree may also help if I branch into training and consulting, or higher level admin roles.

[Cappy]

I earned my doctorate in higher education administration later in life (37), in between kids. It took me 8 years bc I worked FT during. It resulted in zero job opportunities in teaching (not even adjunct) and no raises or promotion in my job. Thankfully I was able to pay cash for the program along the way due to a 50% discount from my employer (the university) but I gave up precious time with my family and money that really provided zero ROI. Higher ed is struggling right now and teaching jobs are scarce. It's nice to have as a credential, it helped me publish, and I value the personal development but that is where I found the benefits ended. My experience applying to faculty jobs was that they were not interested in the credential so much as the prior college level teaching experience (of which I have zero bc my job is staff). Even my own university would not hire me as adjunct. I probably sound like a bitter Betty but I want to be honest.

[keweenawlove]

I went into my PhD in engineering right from undergrad so some of this may or may not be applicable. I do have a current PhD student right now who's pursuing a PhD later and life and really struggling with advice to give her on stopping at a masters vs getting her PhD due to the available jobs with either. In my field, a lot of industry jobs don't want to hire PhDs for lower (BS/MS level) positions and outside of academics, it can be harder to find PhD level positions, especially if you have a limited geographic area. 

If you'd interested in getting into teaching, I'd really recommend trying to learn what the job market is like for teaching in your field. Kind of to echo what Cappy said, in my area the outlook isn't great. There's a huge number of people with PhDs relative to the number of university jobs. And adjunct pay isn't good. The postdoc term for a woman in my group is ending and some teaching slots she's looking at pay $5000 for a 3 credit class with no benefits. My BIL (also engineering) has done some adjust teaching jobs as a trailing spouse to keep up his resume and he said he barely breaks even with paying for daycare. 

[kershnic]

Have you looked into adjunct teaching without a doctorate? Plenty of my MSW professors did not have doctorates. Honestly, as a social worker, I would not bother getting a doctorate with a goal of career advancement (as opposed to getting one for the sense of accomplishment/personal growth/etc.) I guess if your passion is being tenure-track faculty maybe, but that's an incredibly difficulty job market in the best of circumstances.

[wildrice]

I am sure it somewhat depends on the field. My H finished his doctorate at 37, and the biggest downside I see for him (aside from the later start with paying off loans/retirement) is that he is too old to be in a junior/training position and feel good about it. It's not really an ego thing, I think, but rather just having way too many years of "starting out" and having people in higher level positions thinking they are better than you and refusing to listen to your (very valid and knowledgeable) input. It was one thing to be in a role like that in your 20's when you're just starting out, but feels very different as a person nearing 40 who has a lot of life and work experience to bring to the position that isn't maybe being totally recognized. He finds a lot of frustration with it. 

My H does not teach, thankfully. I agree with the others that it's super hard to even get a teaching position, let alone to make enough money to live off of. And student loans have astronomical interest rates, so unless you can get funding or tuition remission, you are likely going to be taking on a lot of debt that will be hard to pay off. Again, this would probably feel differently if my H graduated in his late 20's instead of his late 30s... it gives us 10 years fewer to get out from under the debt and prepare for retirement, which is really not awesome.

[dr.girlfriend]

May 24, 2021 7:37:50 GMT -5 lizlemon19 said:

Does anyone have experience or advice on getting a doctorate later in life? I turn 40 this year and have three children. I have been considering but also daunted. I am a social worker with an MSW. I also am the primary breadwinner. I still have loans from undergrad (under 10k). My oldest will be graduating high school in 5 years and we do not have a lot saved. I also am overwhelmed with the idea of a dissertation. I have looked into a DSW, which does not require it. I would love to teach at the college level. An advanced degree may also help if I branch into training and consulting, or higher level admin roles.

I am in a related field for which a doctorate is required, and I don't know anyone that has a doctorate in SW around here.  Not that they don't exist, but one of our high-ranking administrators is an LCSW...I just looked to see if he has a secondary business degree but surprisingly he does not.  I think an additional masters in health administration or business or HR or something else related to whatever administrative position you might be interested in would probably make more sense for your career flexibility and earning potential than a doctorate in social work, but if you are interested in branching out I would see what's available now and if an additional degree would even be helpful.

[mich1]

I am ABD from my PhD.....which I started later in life. I got sick and wound up disabled (started at 45, got sick at 52) before I could get my dissertation written.

For me, it there was $0 out of pocket costs as a university employee. My goal was not to switch jobs, but to be more educated support for the principal investigator I worked with. If my employer hadn’t paid my tuition, there is no way I would have done it because I knew at the time receiving it would put me into a position of having difficulty getting a job if I ever left what I was currently doing. While getting the degree did bump my salary some, the ROI wouldn’t have been worth it at my age if it hadn’t been paid and it would have pigeonholed me.

[lizlemon19]

May 24, 2021 10:33:05 GMT -5 kershnic said:

Have you looked into adjunct teaching without a doctorate? Plenty of my MSW professors did not have doctorates. Honestly, as a social worker, I would not bother getting a doctorate with a goal of career advancement (as opposed to getting one for the sense of accomplishment/personal growth/etc.) I guess if your passion is being tenure-track faculty maybe, but that's an incredibly difficulty job market in the best of circumstances.

I applied once or twice. I haven’t been religious about it. I would love to eventually.

[Cappy]

May 24, 2021 19:01:20 GMT -5 lizlemon19 said:

May 24, 2021 10:33:05 GMT -5 kershnic said:

Have you looked into adjunct teaching without a doctorate? Plenty of my MSW professors did not have doctorates. Honestly, as a social worker, I would not bother getting a doctorate with a goal of career advancement (as opposed to getting one for the sense of accomplishment/personal growth/etc.) I guess if your passion is being tenure-track faculty maybe, but that's an incredibly difficulty job market in the best of circumstances.

I applied once or twice. I haven’t been religious about it. I would love to eventually.

I bet if you reached out to someone teaching social work in higher ed they'd be happy to do an informational interview, provide tips on how to tweak your resume, and drop names of places that hire with an MA + work experience. 

If you want to just peek at faculty position requirements Higher Ed Jobs is a good site: www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/search.cfm?JobCat=169&suggest=2

I'd target non-tenure track and instructor roles as a career changer. Just glancing through looks like they look for a MSW + the work experience vs. a doctorate for those roles. 

[stpancras]

I just finished an EdD in my late 30s.  I teach FT at a community college and did it for the salary increase.

There definitely was a point during the dissertation when I said, 'if I had known how much work this was going to be, I wouldn't have started.'

I agree with what others have said -- try adjuncting first.  You might be able to teach enough to scratch that itch PT, or you might find that you don't even like it.  Social work is a good field to adjunct in with a masters.  Check community colleges, too - they might have a social work program.

[lizlemon19]

Thank you all for the feedback. Unless my employer offers an amazing stipend or I do end up working for a college that offers tuition remission, I will not pursue it right now. I work with doctors all day (MD or PsyD/Ph. D) so I may have been feeling some jealousy or inadequate. It isn’t feasible for us financially.

I probably will start to look into seriously apply for adjunct teaching jobs, especially in my niche areas of social work.