On the subject of getting sh*t together in case you die...

[dr.girlfriend]

My father passed away in April 2020.  Just prior to that (December 2019), my mom initiated a divorce, and he had to provide a list of his assets to the divorce lawyer.

I do not know WHAT we would have done without that.  Even with that, it has been total chaos for more than a year trying to get everything moved to my mom's name and get her access, consolidate assets, reset passwords, etc.  A few months ago I "found" almost $3 million in 401k money my dad had from previous jobs.  Just today an account we thought had been transferred and closed we discovered was still open in my mom's name with $250k sitting in it.  

This is WITH a (partial, disorganized) list of what institutions my dad had assets at and what the rough balance of assets was only a few months prior to his death.  I truly believe we never would have recovered even a fraction of his assets without it.  I thought there would be some magical system where when someone passes away their social security number is flagged and any institution holding assets would go looking for beneficiaries.  It is so very much the opposite of that -- even the same institution does not communicate within itself.  We sent all the documentation (death certificate, etc.) to the stock brokerage that held an equity account.  Even though my dad had a 401k with the EXACT SAME BROKERAGE, because their retirement section is separate they didn't know, and we had to go through the whole process and resubmit the exact same paperwork again to that other branch.  Same for this last (maybe) $250k, we knew the brokerage account at that institution had been closed and transferred but apparently that did not prompt them in any way to transfer over the savings account in the same name.  Even though my mom was listed as a direct beneficiary and they knew my dad died, they created a beneficiary account in her name but she didn't get access or statements or anything unless she initiated that process.

Anyway, I'm not complaining about my dad leaving a lot of wealth, but just a general PSA to keep on top of things, bug your parents to keep on top of things if you have that kind of relationship with them, and to NEVER ASSUME ANY FINANCIAL INSTITUTION WILL TAKE THE SMALLEST INITIATIVE IN YOUR FAVOR.

[shaynaatl]

Great reminder, and I'm glad you found those missing accounts.

My parents are visiting us right now, and last week we went through some of their accounts. We discovered my dad is a hoarder of checkings/savings accounts. He has 8 different ones! Apparently he likes to open them up for the sign-up bonuses. One of them has less than $200 in it. We told him he should close down at least half of them.

[Cappy]

Wow. I'm really sorry and this is very helpful information.

[ellipses84]

I’m sorry you lost your dad.

I’m glad you had that list though. I’ve often thought the same thing. I was reading an article about some bills that are in development (by Rs and Ds separately). Most of them have to do with opt-out vs. opt-in and catch-up employer requirements. At least one of them had a provision for a system where people could locate all of their 401ks. Apparently there is a lot of unclaimed money from people losing track of them as they switch employers. You can look up unclaimed money in the state treasury, but you have to check by state and 401k funds wouldn’t be there unless they knew the person died and couldn’t contact beneficiaries.

A year after my grandpa passed away, we found out he had an account somewhere like New Hampshire. He lived on the west coast his entire life. I think it was from an old job he had in his early 20s and they transferred institutions without his knowledge. That happened to me once. I had 10k in a 401k account from short lived job. The company changed ownership and their 401k company changed. I vaguely remember seeing a notice but we lost all the paperwork in a flood. I couldn’t remember the new company or login to my old account. I kept meaning to call my old employer to ask about the new company but before I ever got around to it, I started working for them again. It still took about 2 hours on the phone with the new company to locate my old account and get online access and make sure my new account was the same. If my old company had gone out of business it would have been difficult to figure out.

[pearls]

I'm sorry about his passing and all that you've had to deal with. I keep talking to my parents about this (the last time was last week) and my concerns about them not having any lost together for my brother and I (or either of of them) and they said "We guess it's going to be a frustrating process for you when we die...hahaha" because they cannot face it. And I cannot force them and it's very frustrating. My dad almost passing due to COVID really shook me up and I was worried re money access immediately for my mom and now that he's recovering it's like no one can talk about the necessity of just writing down account information. Ugh.

[Wallflower]

dr.girlfriend, I'm very sorry about the loss of your Dad. And this is a good reminder - I handle my mother's finances and I was just thinking about trying to simplify some of the accounts.

And it makes me remember my Dad - he was going in for surgery that was a huge risk, so he organized all his information. And trust me, my Dad was an incredibly organized man. Well, the surgery failed and in the months after, my stepmother still had a few things that Dad had missed and that she had to figure out. So, even when you plan, it's so easy to forget stuff.

[Pom]

Yes! We went through this with Mr. P's dad with dementia. In his case he had also divorced recently, so that was the only saving grace that the lawyer had some information. So many annuities and things he'd moved around, switched banks. It was a ton of leg work and very frustrating. Mercifully, my mom wrote down most all of her info after watching H and I go through this with FIL. She did, however, neglect to indicate that there was a very large life insurance policy she left for my sister and I. She was quite ill for the last ten years of her life, so I'm not sure if she forgot to notate it or if she wanted it to be a surprise. Thinking back on all the times she "surprised" me with a visit, I kind of believe it was intentional. I think it was her last surprise.

I know it is uncomfortable to talk to family about these things, but I would not want my family to be so stressed after my passing and have shit strong all over with no clear roadmap to the estate.

[minzy]

Wow. That’s a lot to absorb. I’m glad you’ve been able to figure stuff out though.

I’m planning a trip next month to see my dad and aunt, both of whom I’m listed as the executor for, so I should probably try to review some of the specifics of this with them. I saw this book yesterday at Barnes and Noble and thought of the board. Maybe I could call it a Fathers Day gift.

www.amazon.com/Important-Information-Belongings-Business-Affairs/dp/1441317996/ref=asc_df_1441317996/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312721175982&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17374676162237198279&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008023&hvtargid=pla-418222801358&psc=1

[konapoppy]

I’m sorry for your loss and the prolonged process. We went through the same thing with my grandmother - finding random accounts, finding accounts at the same company that she had known other accounts, etc. it was exhausting for my dad.

I keep a password protected list of our accounts, and a print out in our safe. A few years ago we moved everything to schwab and have been diligent about doing rollovers when we change employers. But I am still sure we will lose something at some point.