Salary negotiation help

[fryjack2]

Please don't quote.  Will probably delete at some point. 

Current salary is 70k below the market median in your city based on salary.com and other salary sites.  120k below what salary should be based on credentials, etc. when plugged into salary sites.  Not sure how accurate those sites are, but seem to all spit out comparative numbers.

Your employer is notorious for being stingy, but has money to increase pay.  You have been recruited to work elsewhere with a very nice package included with the job offer. Current employer scrambling to not lose you as it would be a huge loss for the organization.  Not really anyone who's salary within the organization that you can compare to as you are in a niche that you created. 

Current employer offered a new salary that is 40k more than current salary, but still 30k lower than the median and 80k lower than what salary "should" be. 

What salary number would you counter with?  

*Posting and running out to do some errands but will check back later and answer questions and respond. 

[Cappy]

I'd counter with just above the salary of the other offer as I'd see it as more indicative of the fair market value vs. the "zillow" type figures the salary websites give.

[carmenere]

Jul 15, 2021 9:18:38 GMT -5 Cappy said:

I'd counter with just above the salary of the other offer as I'd see it as more indicative of the fair market value vs. the "zillow" type figures the salary websites give.

I think this is a good approach. I also think how much above the new job offer depends on how much you want to stay with your current employer. How much more is the recruiter offering?

[krystee]

If I liked the new place, I’d just go there. I’d rather be at a place that recognizes my value than somewhere where I had to push and prod to receive what I am worth.

[ssmjlm]

Jul 15, 2021 10:06:03 GMT -5 krystee said:

If I liked the new place, I’d just go there. I’d rather be at a place that recognizes my value than somewhere where I had to push and prod to receive what I am worth.

This, I would take the new offer.

[Deleted]

current company is still low balling you. You’ll probably never get a raise again there because “we gave you a significant increase in 2021” (or some other bullshit). Take the new job.

[fryjack2]

The only way to get a decent raise and the support staff/programs to do your job better in this field is to have another offer. Its just the way it works unfortunately.

The new job is in another state and would mean a lot of change for our family, which we aren't necessarily sure we want.

This new job is providing leverage to get what is wanted at the current one. I think the counter needs to be significant because it will probably be the last time we negotiate staying until we retire or kids are grown. I'm leaning towards @cappy said-ask for more than the new place's offer and see where we land.

[lemoncupcake]

Jul 15, 2021 10:06:03 GMT -5 krystee said:

If I liked the new place, I’d just go there. I’d rather be at a place that recognizes my value than somewhere where I had to push and prod to receive what I am worth.

Agreed - I think it is rare for anyone (employee or employer) to be truly content with the situation after someone accepts a counter offer to leave. The employee is pissed that they only got paid their worth under threat of leaving, and the employer can feel like the person has one foot out the door

[fryjack2]

Jul 15, 2021 10:06:03 GMT -5 krystee said:

If I liked the new place, I’d just go there. I’d rather be at a place that recognizes my value than somewhere where I had to push and prod to receive what I am worth.

This is tricky because of the field.  Current employer is recognized internationally as the top place to be. Unfortunately, their pay scales don't reflect that  

[lemoncupcake]

Jul 15, 2021 11:17:57 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

The only way to get a decent raise and the support staff/programs to do your job better in this field is to have another offer. Its just the way it works unfortunately.

The new job is in another state and would mean a lot of change for our family, which we aren't necessarily sure we want.

This new job is providing leverage to get what is wanted at the current one. I think the counter needs to be significant because it will probably be the last time we negotiate staying until we retire or kids are grown. I'm leaning towards @cappy said-ask for more than the new place's offer and see where we land.

Well, it’s a different situation if you truly don’t want to accept the new offer. I’d try to counter at $10k over the new offer so you have some wiggle room to negotiate.

[fryjack2]

lemoncupcake I agree. I've been pissed for years about pay. But trying to balance the reality of the career choice and worth and knowing that the employer can pay more and also knowing that there is probably a cap to what they can offer.

The offer from current employee has everything that is wanted to stay in terms of the staff, program support, funding for various things, etc. (and will be enough to stay in that respect as it makes the trajectory of growth quicker), but obviously will counter the salary number and get it as high as possible.

H isn't motivated by money and would probably say yes to the offer because of the other components of it , but I'm acting as his agent and telling him to go big or go new

[ellipses84]

How aligned are the website salaries vs. your current offer? Are you going to counteroffer for the new job and potentially get more. I think using your other offer is good leverage but if it’s in a different cost of living area, you may have want to balance that with the website info for your city.

[janegold]

I think the key here is that the new job means relocation and that relocating would not be your family's preference.

I would say that current employer needs to at least match base salary of new offer. In case they won't do that or if you want to bring some other options to the table, is there other wiggle room in the comp outside of base salary (productivity or quality bonuses, for example) where current employer could make up the difference?

[k3am]

$70k below market is.. a HUGE discrepancy. In some areas, there a whole families living very comfortably off $70k. I'm not sure how someone that's paying $70k or more less than market is recognized as "the place to be."

I was underpaid at my old company (they acknowledged it and were "trying to get me back to market over time") it the psychological aspects of that were.. a doozy. I vowed never again. If this is the culture that they want, undervaluing employees, requiring a competing offer to pay appropriately, etc, what other cultural value shortfalls does the company have?

Working for a company with name recognition that's recognized as the "place to be" is also a great stepping stone and looks good on a resume when you find a company that really values you. This offer may not be the one, since relocation is hard, but I'm sure there are others.

[dr.girlfriend]

I have found that sometimes places known as "the place to be" consider the prestige to be a tradeoff for low salaries! It's only when those places are in less-desirable locations that they actually bump salary up as incentives. That said, if there's any way your DH can reach out in a timely manner to other colleagues in similar niches that he would consider equivalent to do some real-life benchmarking, I would do that. My husband recently went freelance in a field that he more or less was one of the creators of. He set up a chat with equivalent positions (e.g. a few other people who keynoted at conferences he attended, etc.) to get a sense of what their rates were and realized he could basically double what he was asking for.

[RockNVoll]

I would take the highest number you've found, whether that's the new offer or the number you found online, and add 10-15%. He has nothing to lose at this point and will probably never be in a better position to negotiate. This sounds like the type of company that will want room to negotiate you down. Aim high.

[TR]

Jul 15, 2021 12:35:52 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I have found that sometimes places known as "the place to be" consider the prestige to be a tradeoff for low salaries!

I was going to say the same thing. They know people want to work there so they don't have to worry about paying competitive salaries.

[fryjack2]

Jul 15, 2021 14:44:07 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 15, 2021 12:35:52 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I have found that sometimes places known as "the place to be" consider the prestige to be a tradeoff for low salaries!

I was going to say the same thing. They know people want to work there so they don't have to worry about paying competitive salaries.

The current employer is the NASA of its field.  They get away with a lot because....NASA

janegold exactly.  Do we want the life change is one big question we haven't answered yet.  Pros and cons to a move.  Just want to position ourselves the best way we can for both scenarios. And I know you know where we are talking about, so I hope what I type for those that don't makes sense

[Covergirl82]

Jul 15, 2021 14:44:07 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 15, 2021 12:35:52 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I have found that sometimes places known as "the place to be" consider the prestige to be a tradeoff for low salaries!

I was going to say the same thing. They know people want to work there so they don't have to worry about paying competitive salaries.

Exactly.  I used to work for a company like that, but (for some reason) they didn't realize that they weren't actually a prestige company. (LOL)

[fryjack2]

Jul 15, 2021 11:34:15 GMT -5 janegold said:

I think the key here is that the new job means relocation and that relocating would not be your family's preference.

I would say that current employer needs to at least match base salary of new offer. In case they won't do that or if you want to bring some other options to the table, is there other wiggle room in the comp outside of base salary (productivity or quality bonuses, for example) where current employer could make up the difference?

And ellipses84.  The new job offer just upped their salary by 50k and clarified other parts of the offer in terms of support staff making it also what H asked for.  That puts it at 90k over current job's proposed new salary and about 10k over what the median is ( but exactly at what google says salary should be with credentials). 

I think I'm going to advise him to ask for what RockNVoll suggested.  10-15% more than what suggested salary is.  They can only say no and there probably won't be another chance to negotiate this much until he becomes the boss in 10-15 years. 

And then I'm going to ask for a 25% of the salary difference in agent fees to do with what I please

[RockNVoll]

Jul 15, 2021 15:33:26 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Jul 15, 2021 11:34:15 GMT -5 janegold said:

I think the key here is that the new job means relocation and that relocating would not be your family's preference.

I would say that current employer needs to at least match base salary of new offer. In case they won't do that or if you want to bring some other options to the table, is there other wiggle room in the comp outside of base salary (productivity or quality bonuses, for example) where current employer could make up the difference?

And ellipses84 .  The new job offer just upped their salary by 50k and clarified other parts of the offer in terms of support staff making it also what H asked for.  That puts it at 90k over current job's proposed new salary and about 10k over what the median is ( but exactly at what google says salary should be with credentials). 

I think I'm going to advise him to ask for what RockNVoll suggested.  10-15% more than what suggested salary is.  They can only say no and there probably won't be another chance to negotiate this much until he becomes the boss in 10-15 years. 

And then I'm going to ask for a 25% of the salary difference in agent fees to do with what I please

FWIW, I've helped DH get more at his last two jobs, but am never successful for myself, LOL! I should've asked for that agent fee!

[atarianna]

Wow, I cannot imagine an offer then increased by another $50k; your H must be incredibly valuable. I know the move isn’t something you guys necessarily want, but this seems like a really great opportunity for him and could lead to incredible career growth in your industry. I recently left a job who severely undervalued employees and took advantage of us while spinning it as altruistic, so my opinion is very jaded.

I would leave in a heartbeat to feel valued and appreciated even if it meant a move.