Getting your Professional Engineering license in the U.S. requires two tests plus the training years mentioned by others. The first test is usually taken around the end of your bachelor's degree so not usuallypaid by employer. Some employers will pay for the second after the several years of work.
You are looking at a couple hundred bucks to take the PE, and you can completely self study.... The point isn't that engineers don't get any post-BA education, the point is that it's nearly all on the job training or paid by employers. That is wildly different than a 100k masters degree. Even if you pay for your own PE test prep it is still wildly cheaper.
Getting your Professional Engineering license in the U.S. requires two tests plus the training years mentioned by others. The first test is usually taken around the end of your bachelor's degree so not usuallypaid by employer. Some employers will pay for the second after the several years of work.
You are looking at a couple hundred bucks to take the PE, and you can completely self study.... The point isn't that engineers don't get any post-BA education, the point is that it's nearly all on the job training or paid by employers. That is wildly different than a 100k masters degree. Even if you pay for your own PE test prep it is still wildly cheaper.
Of course. I was literally just answering the question.
I remarked upthread about some problems with graduate programs and professional credentialing.
You are looking at a couple hundred bucks to take the PE, and you can completely self study.... The point isn't that engineers don't get any post-BA education, the point is that it's nearly all on the job training or paid by employers. That is wildly different than a 100k masters degree. Even if you pay for your own PE test prep it is still wildly cheaper.
Of course. I was literally just answering the question.
I remarked upthread about some problems with graduate programs and professional credentialing.
I know you know, I wasn't questioning you at all, more trying to explain for others who might not know.
I’m starting graduate school in a month. I’m 20 years post BS. I’m in the MSSW program at the University of Texas. I had been considering graduate programs for years but cost and ROI were a big issue. But I planned and saved for whatever program I was going to do and knew why I wanted the degree and what I planned to do with it.
I would fully discourage anyone going into a graduate program straight out of undergrad (unless it’s a professional degree like JD, MD, PharmD, etc.) I think there is a lot benefit to taking the time for working, developing a network, and finding funding sources for further education.
Having recently officially enrolled in MS near 20 years out of BS, although I had half the degree done with continuing education requirements before enrolling, I do think work experience has helped my perspective on the coursework. Also, my employer has paid for 100% of my post-bac, non degree grad, and degree grad classes and books, except for that 1 I got a scholarship for. This summer I’m even getting paid a small amount to take one of the classes, because it’s on the a topic on the COVID relief funding PD list.
I almost enrolled in the MS right after BS, but life was only giving me 1 more year in the area and online courses were not really a thing. So, this makes me super jealous of the new 4+1 programs. I have missed out on thousands of dollars that the MS would have given me in step pay for not doing it immediately.
I’ll also add that I’m not exactly getting a $60k prestige degree. It’s $400/credit state school. I don’t know as prestige matters much when your goal is to teach public school.
rupertpenny , right, my MLS worked for me too. But that doesn't mean it can't be part of a bachelor degree except for the academic and prestige. And that doesn't seem to matter in public libraries like it does in academia. And not to discredit you at all, but the second masters required to work in an academic library for that same amount of pay (let's say 50-60K and might be higher in a big city) doesn't make a ton of sense to me either. It makes more sense to me to do coursework more related to my job rather than a random masters degree just to check a box, and some might have found a degree that relates better such as music to work in a music archive, but a lot seem like there wasn't a ton of thought behind the second masters and the pay doesn't increase as far as I know anyway. Obviously I am in public rather than academic, but I spent some time in academia and the mental gymnastics among some to categorize people they would help was a bit much for example they would only help tenured professors but not staff lecturers- eyeroll. It's probably me rebelling against the snobbery of academia.
But overall, the profession does need to be paid better from top to bottom. Hard to do when taxes haven't increased ever.
I think the second master's does make sense for some positions, but it is mostly used to justify the completely arbitrary standards used to decide if a certain position is faculty or non-faculty, tenure track vs contract faculty, etc. I am a (contract) faculty librarian and I think it is silly to have faculty librarians at all in some cases. The tenure model doesn't really fit the work we do most of the time. I think who it is really for is all of the PhDs who failed to get teaching positions and are using librarianship as their fallback career. Luckily I'm seeing fewer and fewer of those people these days.
WRT Masters in the Humanities and if they have any actual value, here’s why I did one. My undergrad GPA was only a 3.3. Senior year, I decided I’d like to pursue a PhD and teach. I knew my GPA would not make me a competitive applicant. Going to an MA only program at a local state school would allow me to get a more competitive GPA, create relationships with faculty needed for references and gain teaching experience. Tuition was $3000 per year and my job said they would cover it. While there, I taught several classes and finished with a 3.9 GPA. I had great references and additional work experience in a related professional setting. I would have been a very competitive applicant to transfer into a PhD program. My asshole ex talked me out of it.
My masters is in theater. Probably one of the degrees that would be considered “a total waste” by most. But, I now work in higher ed and having the masters has given me opportunity to negotiate higher starting salaries several times. My current job, I negotiated my starting salary so high compared to my teammates, that the department realize they were paying slightly under market, and a bunch of my teammates got “evening out” raises. I also teach and consult, and the masters has allowed me to get a higher hourly in both of those side gigs.
I have to do two years of field placement with a relevant agency for my MSW program. It’s 20 hours a week, we’re not paid, and if you’re in the clinical track, none of your direct client interaction hours count towards LCSW hours (AFAIK.) I think it’s bullshit.
My MS in counseling was the same. 48 credit program with 600 hours required (unpaid) field placement/client hours over two semesters. None of which count toward the 3000 hours required for licensure. My master’s degree was a dumb move, financially speaking.
I work in higher education and none of this is surprising to me. It occurs at the undergraduate level as well. Faculty committees approve degree/major requirements and make decisions with their own interests in mind. Admissions is admitting basically anyone with a pulse and not supporting at-risk students. On paper they are. In practice, it’s another story.
Yup, I have a master's in counseling psychology. I was lucky that my in-school hours of experience were able to count towards my 3,000 hours for licensure (MFT track here). But they were all unpaid and I maintained a part-time, unpaid position at that agency while working full-time in another industry to pay the bills because I was the breadwinner in my marriage and couldn't afford a pay cut to be full-time in the field. Once I was, I started out making under $40,000. Got raises, but then when I got licensed my pay increased to just over $50,000 and stagnated there until my most recent job change. Therapists are another seriously underpaid career that requires a master's at minimum.
Yup, I have a master's in counseling psychology. I was lucky that my in-school hours of experience were able to count towards my 3,000 hours for licensure (MFT track here). But they were all unpaid and I maintained a part-time, unpaid position at that agency while working full-time in another industry to pay the bills because I was the breadwinner in my marriage and couldn't afford a pay cut to be full-time in the field. Once I was, I started out making under $40,000. Got raises, but then when I got licensed my pay increased to just over $50,000 and stagnated there until my most recent job change. Therapists are another seriously underpaid career that requires a master's at minimum.
Agreed. There was zero chance of my being hired for my position without a master's degree. My starting salary was 31K in 2006 with nearly 50K in debt. My H completed his MBA at the same time, paid for by his employer. That's the only reason I'm not still carrying student loan debt.
I'm finally making a dent in mine because I have a job that actually pays well and because of the lack of interest accruing right now. My BFF got her MBA around the same time and because she worked for the school she attended, the cost was much less. I wish there were more and better options to offset our debt. My student loan debt was similar to yours.