need help with kids'/hall bath layout!

[fleurdelis]

Lurker here.

I need your input on hall bath layout
We live in an arts and crafts style house built in 1908 and are about to remodel all the bathrooms but keep finishes similar to original to preserve the historic look.
I am struggling with layout of the hall bath that both kids will use. It is tiny of course.
There is a separate water closet which will stay separate, so layout is just for tub and sinks and would like to keep some kind of closet or cabinet for storage.
The original plan was to take out the separate shower and convert tub to tub/shower, put full length cabinet where shower is currently. Then replace single pedestal sink with double sink (it wouldn't actually be the console type vanity pictured bc not enough space in the room to work around the legs, would either be wall mounted or two separate pedestals).
I didn't like the idea of having shower curtain blocking half of the window so we redid layout with moving the tub down and then have open space between tub and window all (about 30"), so designer planned to put a sink vanity there and then just a single pedestal on other wall with tall cabinet next to it. My concern was sink plumbing on exterior wall (the wall with sink next to tub is exterior) but contractor says can bring water lines through floor and will be no problem.
Then I became concerned about the double sinks backing up to the water closet where access to plumbing from behind would be almost impossible for one of the sinks without removing toilet (everyone says make sure you can access from behind so don't disrupt tile in the event of leak).

Also have aesthetic concern with the separate vanity sink and pedestal sink not "matching", ie. will it look odd to have 2 totally different types of sinks in same tiny space?

So which would you do - keep relatively small 46-48" double sink and then just a vanity with no sink on opposite wall next to tub? (would be less storage bc can't fit a full length cabinet there)
Or do vanity with sink there and single pedestal?

I hope you can somewhat understand what I mean!

first design - needed to move tub away from window

second design - concerned about sink on exterior wall and "non matching" vanity sink and pedestal sink

[af1212]

I would probably keep the first layout, frost the window, and pull the curtain to the side when not in use.

How old are your kids and how many other bathrooms do you have? I would probably actually change the tub/shower to a shower only if it was mine and there was a tub anywhere else in the house.

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 8:17:37 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I would probably keep the first layout, frost the window, and pull the curtain to the side when not in use.

How old are your kids and how many other bathrooms do you have? I would probably actually change the tub/shower to a shower only if it was mine and there was a tub anywhere else in the house.

Thanks for input!
We need to keep a tub here. We will have 2 other full baths, but one is the master and our kids have been showering in our bathroom for 3 years and they will NOT use our bathroom once theirs is usable! The other full bath is currently a half bath being converted as part of remodel and will have shower only, that is currently the third floor guest space but eventually a kid will likely move up there in a few years. 

[nicolewi]

I like first layout; just pull curtain tot he side during the day to let the light in. You can get sick-on window designs for privacy if you don't want to permanently frost the glass.

I would also do some kind of vanity with the sinks if at all possible rather than just pedestal. You need that counter space and storage! We have a powder room with pedestal sink that is heavily used by the kids, and I'm considering putting in a narrow-depth vanity instead of the pedestal sink.

Could you do one of those old-fashioned looking cast-iron looking large, long double sinks instead of two separate? Like this, but not triple? And maybe still with some kind of lower cabinet?
www.hometalk.com/diy/bathroom/kids-bathroom-design-ideas-1775267

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 8:47:53 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

I like first layout; just pull curtain tot he side during the day to let the light in. You can get sick-on window designs for privacy if you don't want to permanently frost the glass.

I would also do some kind of vanity with the sinks if at all possible rather than just pedestal. You need that counter space and storage! We have a powder room with pedestal sink that is heavily used by the kids, and I'm considering putting in a narrow-depth vanity instead of the pedestal sink.

Could you do one of those old-fashioned looking cast-iron looking large, long double sinks instead of two separate? Like this, but not triple? And maybe still with some kind of lower cabinet?
www.hometalk.com/diy/bathroom/kids-bathroom-design-ideas-1775267

We don't really need storage under sinks bc will have a huge floor to ceiling cabinet next to tub/shower (thats the large box opposite the door in the first design - it's actually larger than we probably need as we have a similar one currently that is half empty). Plus there will be medicine cabinets above each sink. The other issue is there is a radiator on sink wall so need space for that bc really no where else to put it.

[SusanBAnthony]

I really don't like #2. It's too choppy.

I would make #1 work.

[fleurdelis]

Thanks everyone! Very Helpful input

What about a mix of the 2 designs? So keep double sink on one wall but shift tub/shower down across from door and then put a cabinet without sink in space between tub and window wall?
I would have to use an L shaped curtain rod which is what we have in another bath now and doesn’t both me.

[simpsongal]

I would stick w/#1 and do 1 sink for the extra counter space. I think it'll look less cluttered w/1 sink.

[darby]

Sept 14, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

I would stick w/#1 and do 1 sink for the extra counter space. I think it'll look less cluttered w/1 sink.

This is what I was coming in here to say. Some counter space is way more important than a second sink.

[af1212]

Sept 14, 2021 10:48:10 GMT -5 darby said:

Sept 14, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

I would stick w/#1 and do 1 sink for the extra counter space. I think it'll look less cluttered w/1 sink.

This is what I was coming in here to say. Some counter space is way more important than a second sink.

Yes! This is even better idea!! No need for 2 sinks!

[af1212]

Sept 14, 2021 10:48:10 GMT -5 darby said:

Sept 14, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

I would stick w/#1 and do 1 sink for the extra counter space. I think it'll look less cluttered w/1 sink.

This is what I was coming in here to say. Some counter space is way more important than a second sink.

Actually, thinking about it even more I would do 1 sink and a toilet so would be complete bathroom.

[dr.girlfriend]

I think you can fiddle with #1 to make it work. I'm a little confused, though, because I guess in #2 you've rotated the room around? Is there any chance you can use layout #2 and have the tub where the sinks are and the sinks by the window? I feel like my tub is only 50" or so and it's very comfortable for me. IDK if the width would still cover some of the window, though. I'm also a little confused about why you would have that giant cabinet if you don't need it, rather than a smaller cabinet on the window side. Are you just trying to fill up the space formerly used by the shower?

I don't have a lot of knowledge but I've seen a lot of posts recently about "wet rooms" that are designed to just let the water splash. Is that an option to eliminate your shower curtain concern? Or a half-glass door? I googled "tub shower combo with no curtain" and it looks like there are possibilities, although they may not fit with your historic aesthetic.

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Sept 14, 2021 10:48:10 GMT -5 darby said:

This is what I was coming in here to say. Some counter space is way more important than a second sink.

Actually, thinking about it even more I would do 1 sink and a toilet so would be complete bathroom.

The bathroom is only 6x7.5 ft so no way to fit a toilet, but there is already a separate toilet/water closet which we prefer that set up so one kid can use toilet and other can still bathe/do sink stuff. 

I'm surprised you all would just do one sink! It's making me second guess everything! 
We only have pedestal sinks in every bathroom in our house currently so we are not used to vanities or counter space at all. Certainly I am looking forward to having a nice vanity when we remodel the primary bath, but I don't see the need for the kids to have a lot of counter space. They really only need room for soap and toothbrush holder. What am I missing?

Growing up, I shared a bathroom with 2 brothers and was always just used to getting in/out of bathroom as quickly as possible. I always did hair/make up in my bedroom. My daughter is only 7 so a ways off from that, but that is why I was considering trying to do the 30" true vanity/sink on exterior wall. Do you all still feel that isn't enough space?
Also, we can't really do a vanity where double sinks are bc of radiator on that wall. Well we could but it would be much smaller, like 30" so wouldn't gain much counter anyway.

[dr.girlfriend]

Here's an example of that glass half-door in a historic-looking bathroom:

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 13:04:45 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I think you can fiddle with #1 to make it work. I'm a little confused, though, because I guess in #2 you've rotated the room around? Is there any chance you can use layout #2 and have the tub where the sinks are and the sinks by the window? I feel like my tub is only 50" or so and it's very comfortable for me. IDK if the width would still cover some of the window, though. I'm also a little confused about why you would have that giant cabinet if you don't need it, rather than a smaller cabinet on the window side. Are you just trying to fill up the space formerly used by the shower?

I don't have a lot of knowledge but I've seen a lot of posts recently about "wet rooms" that are designed to just let the water splash. Is that an option to eliminate your shower curtain concern? Or a half-glass door? I googled "tub shower combo with no curtain" and it looks like there are possibilities, although they may not fit with your historic aesthetic.

You are right - the designs are just mirror images of each other bc thats the way she sent them to me, but the door would be staying in same place.
We unfortunately can't do tub on other side bc there is only 21" from window to wall so too narrow. 
I do like the half glass door idea, as long as my kids can keep from getting water everywhere! It would definitely eliminate the problem of the shower curtain obstructing

[lolalolalola]

is there a reason you can’t put the tub where the cabinet is? Then put a smaller cabinet by the window?

If that is not doable, I would choose your first option and would not worry at all about the window being over the tub. Frost it and call it a day. That layout makes the most sense and is way better than the second option. I wouldn’t worry about a glass door over the tub either, more to clean. I would definitely have a vanity with 2 sinks.

[aprilsails]

Ok. Option 1 but move the cabinet to the side with the window and swap with the bath. Do a low cabinet with half tile wall on the bath side and have a glass partition up to the ceiling for the spray and to allow in light. I’ve seen curtain rods connected to glass partitions before. Above the cabinet on the exterior wall do open shelving. Solves myriad problems. Keep the larger vanity and do double or single sink as per your preferences.

[af1212]

Sept 14, 2021 13:10:54 GMT -5 fleurdelis said:

Sept 14, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Actually, thinking about it even more I would do 1 sink and a toilet so would be complete bathroom.

The bathroom is only 6x7.5 ft so no way to fit a toilet, but there is already a separate toilet/water closet which we prefer that set up so one kid can use toilet and other can still bathe/do sink stuff. 

I'm surprised you all would just do one sink! It's making me second guess everything! 
We only have pedestal sinks in every bathroom in our house currently so we are not used to vanities or counter space at all. Certainly I am looking forward to having a nice vanity when we remodel the primary bath, but I don't see the need for the kids to have a lot of counter space. They really only need room for soap and toothbrush holder. What am I missing?

Growing up, I shared a bathroom with 2 brothers and was always just used to getting in/out of bathroom as quickly as possible. I always did hair/make up in my bedroom. My daughter is only 7 so a ways off from that, but that is why I was considering trying to do the 30" true vanity/sink on exterior wall. Do you all still feel that isn't enough space?
Also, we can't really do a vanity where double sinks are bc of radiator on that wall. Well we could but it would be much smaller, like 30" so wouldn't gain much counter anyway.

The bathroom at our last house was 6x7 and the one at my current house is 7x8 - both of those are bathrooms for a family of 5. So I was thinking if you do sink, toilet and tub/shower in one, and toilet/sink in the WC then you basically gain even more bathroom usage.

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 13:46:48 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

is there a reason you can’t put the tub where the cabinet is? Then put a smaller cabinet by the window?

If that is not doable, I would choose your first option and would not worry at all about the window being over the tub. Frost it and call it a day. That layout makes the most sense and is way better than the second option. I wouldn’t worry about a glass door over the tub either, more to clean. I would definitely have a vanity with 2 sinks.

 That was what I was trying to describe with combining the 2 layouts, I just don't have a picture of it. But since I was concerned about plumbing on exterior wall I had thought about just having either a vanity with no sink, or a shallow cabinet in the space by the window and keep double sinks on "sink wall".

ugh....I am so stressed having to finalize all this very soon!

[fleurdelis]

Sept 14, 2021 15:29:32 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Sept 14, 2021 13:10:54 GMT -5 fleurdelis said:

The bathroom is only 6x7.5 ft so no way to fit a toilet, but there is already a separate toilet/water closet which we prefer that set up so one kid can use toilet and other can still bathe/do sink stuff. 

I'm surprised you all would just do one sink! It's making me second guess everything! 
We only have pedestal sinks in every bathroom in our house currently so we are not used to vanities or counter space at all. Certainly I am looking forward to having a nice vanity when we remodel the primary bath, but I don't see the need for the kids to have a lot of counter space. They really only need room for soap and toothbrush holder. What am I missing?

Growing up, I shared a bathroom with 2 brothers and was always just used to getting in/out of bathroom as quickly as possible. I always did hair/make up in my bedroom. My daughter is only 7 so a ways off from that, but that is why I was considering trying to do the 30" true vanity/sink on exterior wall. Do you all still feel that isn't enough space?
Also, we can't really do a vanity where double sinks are bc of radiator on that wall. Well we could but it would be much smaller, like 30" so wouldn't gain much counter anyway.

The bathroom at our last house was 6x7 and the one at my current house is 7x8 - both of those are bathrooms for a family of 5. So I was thinking if you do sink, toilet and tub/shower in one, and toilet/sink in the WC then you basically gain even more bathroom usage.

Ah, I see what you're saying, have two toilets! I did consider that at one point, but the space really doesn't allow at least not without being prohibitively expensive. We were trying to move plumbing as little as possible. 

[lolalolalola]

Sept 14, 2021 16:42:10 GMT -5 fleurdelis said:

Sept 14, 2021 13:46:48 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

is there a reason you can’t put the tub where the cabinet is? Then put a smaller cabinet by the window?

If that is not doable, I would choose your first option and would not worry at all about the window being over the tub. Frost it and call it a day. That layout makes the most sense and is way better than the second option. I wouldn’t worry about a glass door over the tub either, more to clean. I would definitely have a vanity with 2 sinks.

 That was what I was trying to describe with combining the 2 layouts, I just don't have a picture of it. But since I was concerned about plumbing on exterior wall I had thought about just having either a vanity with no sink, or a shallow cabinet in the space by the window and keep double sinks on "sink wall".

ugh....I am so stressed having to finalize all this very soon!

Our sinks are on an exterior wall (and have been for our last 3 houses) and it never occurred to me that would be an issue.

[darby]

This probably isn’t helpful since you’re trying to pick soon, but I can she now why you prefer the pedestal sink, but I still don’t think you need two. Why not make it feel even more spacious & eliminate the large cabinet if you don’t really need it? Then just add a pharmacy cabinet or smaller furniture style cabinet? I love the idea above with beautiful tile in the shower with the open glass half door.

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 14, 2021 16:57:10 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Sept 14, 2021 16:42:10 GMT -5 fleurdelis said:

 That was what I was trying to describe with combining the 2 layouts, I just don't have a picture of it. But since I was concerned about plumbing on exterior wall I had thought about just having either a vanity with no sink, or a shallow cabinet in the space by the window and keep double sinks on "sink wall".

ugh....I am so stressed having to finalize all this very soon!

Our sinks are on an exterior wall (and have been for our last 3 houses) and it never occurred to me that would be an issue.

It is definitely an issue in northern places that get bitter cold, and southern places that don't insulate and get periodic cold snaps.

When it is -20, plumbing on exterior walls with freeze the pipes and burst. Never an issue on interior walls unless your heat goes out for long enough for the whole house to get to less than 32.

[lolalolalola]

Sept 14, 2021 19:06:15 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Sept 14, 2021 16:57:10 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Our sinks are on an exterior wall (and have been for our last 3 houses) and it never occurred to me that would be an issue.

It is definitely an issue in northern places that get bitter cold, and southern places that don't insulate and get periodic cold snaps.

When it is -20, plumbing on exterior walls with freeze the pipes and burst. Never an issue on interior walls unless your heat goes out for long enough for the whole house to get to less than 32.

I live in Canada, every winter we hit temps as low as -40. Maybe we build houses with better insulation here…

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 14, 2021 19:54:14 GMT -5 lolalolalola said:

Sept 14, 2021 19:06:15 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

It is definitely an issue in northern places that get bitter cold, and southern places that don't insulate and get periodic cold snaps.

When it is -20, plumbing on exterior walls with freeze the pipes and burst. Never an issue on interior walls unless your heat goes out for long enough for the whole house to get to less than 32.

I live in Canada, every winter we hit temps as low as -40. Maybe we build houses with better insulation here…

Probably! Last winter in MN our older house had two lines freeze slightly but we caught it right away and thawed them before they burst.

[4133]

So I just did a bath reno in a house as old as yours. I feel your layout pain!

I would do #1 for sure. I like the idea of swapping the cabinet and the tub if you’re concerned about the window. For me the window wouldn’t be a big deal but it’s so hard with old houses. I do not like the two different sinks in different locations.

This is a different view than others in the thread, but — I have a bunch of kids and we purposely rearranged to put in double sinks. I want them getting in and out without wrestling. Mine don’t need or use counter space.

[InBetweenDays]

Sept 14, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

I would stick w/#1 and do 1 sink for the extra counter space. I think it'll look less cluttered w/1 sink.

Ditto this. This is the setup we have (1 offset sink, extra counter space to the side). In my experience (kids are 12 and 15) they are never in the bathroom at the same time so an extra sink would be a waste. But having that extra counter space is huge.

[ellipses84]

I have very strong feelings that you should not go with #2, splitting the sinks. For #1 I’d also consider only one sink because the trade off is more counter space. I think #1 is fine and you could extend the end of the tub into a shelf and use the L-shape shower curtain so there’s a little gap between the window and the shower curtain.

You could also swap the tub and linen cabinet. This will put the linen cabinet in front of the window, so you could split it halfway up at counter or window sill height, with the lower portion the full depth of the tub and the upper portion set back and shallower to miss the window. You don’t need all the cabinets to be that deep and stuff will just get lost back there anyways.

ETA: Like this. Either way you need to think about water getting on materials next to the sink and wall. Anywhere you can around the shower, I’d put full height tile. For this scheme, I’d consider a glass divider at the end of the tub, but you could still do a shower curtain on the long open side. Your other option is tile vertical surfaces and use the matching countertop material on horizontal surfaces, then use an L-shape shower curtain, but I would be annoyed with the liner inside vs. curtain outside where it turns the corner.


Eta2: Another easier option is to leave a gap near the window at the end of the tub and put a piece of storage furniture there. This would be smaller but a lot cheaper and could be moved for cleaning or leaks. You could do this with a very traditional claw foot style tub with shower kit and curtain around all of it if you wanted.

[Roc A Bee]

I hate #2.

Can you do 1 but move the shower closer to the door? Or I like the idea of a glass closure like posted above.

I would keep both sinks. There are times that both kids need to brush teeth or wash hands and 2 sinks is nice. Also more counter space at my house would just mean the teen keeps 1 million products all over the place. No. Put that stuff away. I like that 2 sinks means less space for junk on the counter

[fleurdelis]

Sept 15, 2021 14:26:44 GMT -5 Roc A Bee said:

I hate #2.

Can you do 1 but move the shower closer to the door? Or I like the idea of a glass closure like posted above.

I would keep both sinks. There are times that both kids need to brush teeth or wash hands and 2 sinks is nice. Also more counter space at my house would just mean the teen keeps 1 million products all over the place. No. Put that stuff away. I like that 2 sinks means less space for junk on the counter

I really appreciate everyone’s input so far. 
One thing I should clarify is that the designers measurement of the window wall was 9” too long (have no clue how she made this mistake and has still never been corrected in drawings but contractor is aware), it’s 72” across. So in reality the space is even tighter than appears in the drawings. We cannot do a tub wider than 30” so basically are limited to 60” long tubs bc no one makes long and narrow alcove tubs. And sinks have to be ideally 18” depth, like 20” max. Because of how tight the space is we cannot have a double sinks as long as pictured (pictured is 60”, realistically would be 48” max and still be able to move in room, and it cannot be a vanity, would be wall hung or pedestal sinks due to radiator issue and just how tight the space is). 

Not sure if this changes anyone’s thoughts.