Researching contractors

[mouse]

Hold my hand here, we’re replacing a roof and going from asphalt shingle to metal.

Everyone tells me it’s important to find someone who knows what they’re doing. Several people have told me they would not recommend their installer. 😣 The neighbors who love their roofs all had them when they moved in so don’t know the company.

No one seems to be telling they don’t know what they’re doing. Which is as I’d expect.

How do I research? I mean, I’ve started with Google but who knows if it’s all their friends writing the reviews or what. Same with references, although I guess if I did find a bad reference that would be something.

Plus, they use subcontractors for some of the work (adding skylights, possibly a dormer) and none of these seem easily researchable. No websites, they don’t market since they seem to get work from other contractors only.

I know I can look up their CCB with the state and check that their insurance is current.

Anything else we should be doing?

Also, what point in the process should we do this - as we get bids or once we’ve narrowed down?

[mouse]

I will say, everyone I’ve talked to has been great about answering questions, explaining terms, why they use which materials, etc. Which is nice, because I have a lot of questions and really like understanding the full process.

[deadwing]

No advice, but good luck! I wanted to put a metal roof on this house, but I could only find one installer in my area and he was very difficult to work with. My parents have had a metal roof for nearly 20 years, but my dad installed it himself. He's no longer up to doing that for my house, unfortunately. I ended up sticking with traditional shingles.

Are you going with a standing seam style or faux shingles? I personally like the look of standing seam. It's just a little bit modern and different.

[mouse]

Sept 17, 2021 12:48:46 GMT -5 deadwing said:

No advice, but good luck! I wanted to put a metal roof on this house, but I could only find one installer in my area and he was very difficult to work with. My parents have had a metal roof for nearly 20 years, but my dad installed it himself. He's no longer up to doing that for my house, unfortunately. I ended up sticking with traditional shingles.

Are you going with a standing seam style or faux shingles? I personally like the look of standing seam. It's just a little bit modern and different.

I totally agree about the standing seam. It’s kind of an odd choice for our house which is a poorly upgraded 1929 house in a vague craftsman look. But I hoping it might look like an intentional choice and interesting in a good way. If not, it’s my house, not theirs.

[winecat]

Are there specific manufacturers whose products that you like? I’d contact them for “authorized installers.”

Does your city require licensing?

[winecat]

Sept 17, 2021 12:39:44 GMT -5 mouse said:

I will say, everyone I’ve talked to has been great about answering questions, explaining terms, why they use which materials, etc. Which is nice, because I have a lot of questions and really like understanding the full process.

I’ve seen videos by the manufacturers on YouTube so I’d check there for their processes.

[winecat]

I'd ask the roofing contractors if their installers are employees or contractors and what kind of training/experience that their installers have with the specific roofing product that you want installed. "Good companies" can hire crappy or untrained crews.

I'm guessing that permits have to be pulled? The name of the company that installed the roofs on the satisfied homeowners should be on the permits. Here I can look up permits filed on any property in the city. It might be something to check, if you haven't.

I'd ask to hire your own contractor to install the skylight or dormer if you can't get info on the people doing that work.

I took a couple of roofing classes at a local community college because I'm so tired of shitty contractors. I'll see if I can find my notes. But the big thing I remember is to make sure that ventilation and insulation is done correctly so that you don't get heat build up and ice dams.

[mouse]

I’m going to brain vomit here, because it’s actually really helpful for sorting out my thoughts:

2 of the 3 roofing contractors I’ve contacted use a company out of Salem (so fairly local to Portland), Taylor Metals. One is recommending a 24 gauge, one a 26, not sure why they’re different recommendations. The 3rd company uses a manufacturer out of Estacada, and only a 27 gauge, plus I think they measure pre-paint, and Taylor is supposed to be a true gauge of the metal itself. So not feeling as strongly about the 3rd contractor.

Also, I almost sound like I know what I’m talking about there, but that’s the extent of what I know. What the implications are in a place that doesn’t usually see heavy snow or hail or usually see extreme heat (until this summer when we made national news for the heat dome), I could not tell you. The roofer I spoke with today, who recommended the 24, said one thing a thicker gauge does is reduce how much it expands and contracts with temperature change, making it more stable, and also helps reduce stress on the coating, which is one reasons older metal roofs will sometimes peel. The Taylor roofs have a 40 year warranty on the paint for both gauges.

Really liked the roofer who came in today - although now I feel like I need to breathe into a paper bag for a bit. Whoever built the roof took some shortcuts and it’s like stacked drywall, plastic coating, insulation and then plywood, then shingles, so very little to no air flow within the roof. He was also able to articulate about why that’s a bad thing in that it traps the moisture right below the plywood and how it should be done, with sufficient vents at the top and bottom. It sounds like they should be able to add what is needed and then assess the damage that may already be there. He also said in homes like ours, it depends where existing wiring and plumbing are located in terms of what they can do (mostly in regards to the skylights). So maybe more $$ than we could be spending in ideal circumstances, but the problem already exists, so yay for resolving things, I guess.

Today’s roofer (#2) uses a contractor for skylights, the other roofer (#1) already got us a quote and made it sound like they could just plop them in, and for not much extra. They also thought we could keep one existing skylight. I don’t have roofer #2s quote yet, but he felt the existing skylight didn’t have the correct mounting for using in a metal roof. So did roofer #1 write their quote assuming we’d hire a contractor for the framing? What would happen when they realized they had the wrong mount style? Or is roofer #2 overly cautious? I rarely think anyone is trying to pull one over on a client, but I do know with most things there’s often more than one allowable method, and some will have a more conservative approach. I usually do myself, but I’m not sure how often that leads to overdoing things unnecessarily.

In terms of process, both #1 and #2 do tear offs in sections and then overlay with a rain and snow seal. This is good because we’re generally a rainy climate and you can’t always predict when you’ll need to pack it in for the day. Roofer #1 also does the metal part in sections (because weather) and roofer #2 prefers to do that in one go. Roofer #3, who has not come out for the quote yet, prefers to do it all in one go.

Anyone else watch Bosch? The police chief keeps saying of his rival, “he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.” Man, I am feeling that about myself.

[mouse]

I will check in with the city, but I don’t think you need a permit to replace an existing roof. Maybe for the skylights, but I only remembered to ask roofer #3 and he gave a long pause and said, “…not that I’m aware of.”

I would only hire a licensed, bonded and insured contractor or roofer, but as far as I know you don’t need any special designation to do metal roofs.

Those are good questions though! The city code enforcer was my kid’s baseball coach, so at least I know who I’m talking to there. Lol.

[Pibs]

Also word vomiting a bit in case it might help you. First, no permits were needed for anything we did. Second, I don't think we are allowed to get an insurance discount in the state of Oregon for having a more fire resistant roof which is a bummer. Third, the rain didn't bother us because it wasn't louder than our cedar roof, and it didn't interfere with any electronics/WiFi. Snow sliding off in the winter is fun but loud, and obviously a rare occurrence. Fourth, I really like the idea of standing seam on a MCM house -- thanks for giving me that thought for when we replace this roof some day. Fifth, the effing silverfish are gone which made the whole cost of the roof entirely worth it after having one fall into our bed one night - way cheaper than burning down the house.

We replaced our cedar shake roof in Beaverton with an Interlock metal roof that looks like cedar shake. Maybe it's because it's like a chain company instead of a more local place, but they handled everything. They had their own crew who only does their roofing. They tore off the old roof and installed the new one. They also replaced all of our skylights with new ones -- the reason we did that is because ours were like 20 years old and original to the house, and our new roof was warrantied for 50 years or something. It seemed easier to replace them with the roof because they were pretty old and not in the most fantastic shape than to deal with how to figure out replacing them in 8 years. We also had them install a SolaTube in our bathroom for a bit of additional light.

The same crew came back after the rain started and reflashed an area where there was a minor leak and we've had no problems since. We also had them back a year or so later to install safety hook things for the people who replaced our gutters. And, since we were considering solar, they confirmed that we could have solar panels on their roofs and they said they would install whatever brackets are necessary without voiding the warranty of the roof.

[ellipses84]

The best thing you can do is ask for their qualifications along with their bid. If they do decent size projects they should have this on hand and not have to create it. It might be a list of projects and /or the owner / sr. workers resume. If you get a list of local recent projects, you could drive past a couple and see the quality. If they can’t/ won’t provide that, it may mean they’re old school (but they should verbally be able to tell you this info) or they don’t care enough about your small job. Also, knowing their warranty policies and the manufacturer’s warranty policies are important.

This is honestly why people hire general contractors - to manage all the subcontractors and be responsible for them so the owner doesn’t have to. It doesn’t make sense to pay more for that if the roof is the only thing you are doing and the roofer will manage the skylight sub, etc. though.

Can you ask for recs in any local online groups?

[ellipses84]

Sept 17, 2021 16:09:19 GMT -5 winecat said:

Are there specific manufacturers whose products that you like? I’d contact them for “authorized installers.”

Does your city require licensing?

This is a good idea. It may help you find a good installer, who could also tell you other similar products they could install for cheaper and the pros / cons of each. If they seem too used car salesman-y you’ll know and if they are genuine and honestly giving you good advice that is a good sign and you’ll know that too.

Also, did you ask the coach? He probably knows who they are and who is the best.

[mouse]

Hello from the other side of the river!

I know, no discount for less fire risk or hail damage. For now, with the way things are going with climate change 🤷🏻‍♀️ Not honestly sure what to hope for there.

We rented a house before we were married that had a metal roof. Mr M loved the way it sounded. It might be a little noisy in a storm with our bedrooms upstairs, but usually the rain is so gentle in Oregon.

I asked about solar too. They all said it’s no issue with the standing seam. We have too much shade to make it worth it at this point, but again, in the future who knows.

Yes, I think the paint/coating is 40 years warranty and the roof itself is 50. I agree about the skylights, so I’m not too bummed the one needs to come out.

Thank you for responding, this is helpful.

[mouse]

Sept 17, 2021 22:46:48 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

The best thing you can do is ask for their qualifications along with their bid. If they do decent size projects they should have this on hand and not have to create it. It might be a list of projects and /or the owner / sr. workers resume. If you get a list of local recent projects, you could drive past a couple and see the quality. If they can’t/ won’t provide that, it may mean they’re old school (but they should verbally be able to tell you this info) or they don’t care enough about your small job. Also, knowing their warranty policies and the manufacturer’s warranty policies are important.

This is honestly why people hire general contractors - to manage all the subcontractors and be responsible for them so the owner doesn’t have to. It doesn’t make sense to pay more for that if the roof is the only thing you are doing and the roofer will manage the skylight sub, etc. though.

Can you ask for recs in any local online groups?

Good call! Roofer #3 I called because I drove by a house with a nice looking roof and his sign was out front.

I’ve tried local groups, but metal roofs here are niche enough that it didn’t get any traction beyond general roofer recommendations. From what I’ve heard, you really want the expertise with metal specifically. I’ll contact Taylor metals and see if they have any more recommendations, I do want solid quotes to compare. Especially if they come back much differently. With being on the hook for work outside of the contract scope, it’s not like we’d actually be likely to save anything.

Same with a GC, if we had one already I’d have started there, but because the metal experience is more important it made sense to do it a little backwards. If we go with a dormer addition, that contractor will take over for the flooring, drywall and exterior subcontractors. But it’ll be someone who works with the roofer already.

[winecat]

mouse- How many layers of shingles does your house currently have? It sounds like the one guy who came out today might be concerned about the sheathing (plywood) underneath? If more than 15% of that needs to be replaced, it looks like you'll need a permit: www.portland.gov/bds/residential-permitting/do-you-need-permit/residential-permits

How big is your house? Are there a lot of different sections? The roofers should have tarps on hand to protect anything that needs to stay dry, if they need to stop working because of rain.

Did any of the roofers discuss the types of metal available and the pros/cons of each for your house?

This has some good info: "Several considerations must be addressed in the roofing system design, including ensuring that the four barriers needed in any building enclosure i.e., water barrier, thermal insulation barrier, vapor retarder, and air barrier are provided and are in the correct location for a given climate." www.englertinc.com/articles/choose-right-underlayment-material-your-metal-roofing-project I hope that their estimates will fully explain their recommended roofing system for your house.

Roof color has a significant impact on the heat absorption or reflection. The gauge of the metal might make a difference in terms of expansion and contraction, etc. but the color definitely will. I found this that discusses the different types of paint systems available on the different gauges: www.westernstatesmetalroofing.com/blog/gauge-thickness-metal-roofing-panels

[definitelyO]

I didn't have any thoughts until I read Pibs, response.
your insurance company has a claims department and they have authorized contractors. SO - even though this is not an insurance claim, maybe you can get recommendations from them?

[mouse]

Taylor metals got back to us with some additional roofer/contractor names so we’ll call at least two of them to get competing bids. It’s been a week and we haven’t heard from roofer #2, so we’ll follow up today. Ugh. I hate it when they don’t follow up. Was it me? Do I have a bad house?

As far as I know, only a single layer of shingles. The house was flipped in the early aughts, and taken down to basically the studs. I’m very confused about the permits as they can take several weeks to get, but we’ll only know if we need it once they start removing the roof and see what’s under there. I’ll ask the roofer how that works out, but I think they obtain the permits if needed.

One main section, with one small protrusion on the side, over the garage. It’s a separate roof, no weird joinings, thank goodness.

I’ll ask more about the underlayment. Both roofers so far use what they call a premium underlayment, but of course I have to take their word on what it does. Both have recommended upgrading the air circulation under the roof (which I agree with), roofer #2 recommended a more substantial upgrade.

[mrsukyankee]

Do you have websites in the US like in the UK where you can do searches for traders that are reviewed by others? We have Trusted Trader as an example. Or Which.co.uk, which is sort of like a Consumer's Report which has their own trusted traders. I've used those sorts of sites often.