Another Job A or Job B question

[origami]

I got a job offer and I’m torn so I figured maybe outside input would help. Both jobs are the same title and same-ish type of work (tech job). I’ve been in my current role 2.5y. Before that I was in a completely different, unrelated industry.

Current job:
- current salary is on the low end. I’ll say it’s $X. we got a new VP this year who is awesome. He looked at pay gaps and told me he requested in the budget for me to get $X + $25K next year. It’s not approved yet but he thinks he can tell me by mid-December.
- no equity
- yearly bonus of ~ $5k
- 4w vacation

Pros:
- local company. Office is literally across the street from me but I still WFH. My boss lives out of state so I can pick office or WFH long term. I like having this option.
- the work is interesting and challenging. Lots of variety
- I like most of my coworkers
- I’ve made inroads in key areas bc I work on a critical product so I have a lot of influence with higher ups. This is why I’m (potentially) getting a huge raise.
- lots of flexibility and autonomy

Cons:
- if I don’t get the raise my pay is on the very low end of normal
- My boss doesn’t understand what I do. In order to get better at my job I have to self-teach with external resources (which I do regularly and it’s time-consuming).
- current company has very niche products (government software) so no one’s heard of it. May impact hiring options later in a worse economy IDK
- we have no formal career ladder for my role or for my coworkers on my team. My boss is good at some things but absolutely terrible at this area. I don’t want to be a manager but I do want to be a senior, etc individual contributor. This is partly a boss problem, and partly an org structure issue. It will not be fixed next year. It might be fixed in 2023. The entire rest of the company has career ladders. My dept is the only one I know of without one.

New job:
- salary is $X + $18. I did not negotiate yet because I’m stalling to see if current job will come through with the raise
- no yearly bonus
- $6K equity
- unlimited PTO
- has 1 more holiday than current job
- other benefits are the same

Pros:
- better tech stack which would likely make my job easier
- product is less complex so that would also make my job easier
- I’d report to a manager who does my work so I’d get a lot more relevant critique here. (Note: my DH thinks I would hate this lol. He thinks because I’m self-teaching I learn things better than if I was directed by someone else). There is also a 2nd person in my role on the same team. I’m currently on my own
- they have a normal career ladder
- this company is more well known. Not Big Tech well known. But ppl in tech have likely heard of it. May or may not help down the road with future jobs

Cons:
- product is boring compared to current company
- company is much smaller and probably less stable in an economic downturn.
- I’d be starting over on “influence” at the bottom end of the ladder and because there are more ppl doing my same job, I doubt I’d get a lot of recognition. I can’t decide how much I care about this.
- everyone I interviewed with was new which seemed like a bit of a red flag but IDK. They were all nice but who knows
- they split my job role. so compared to what I do now I would do half of it + “consult” on the other half. I’d keep the most interesting part, which is good. But less variety than current gig.
- I think this job is likely faster paced and less flexible. Prob the same hours/week but I make my own deadlines now and I bet that would not be the case here
- job is fully remote. Company is out of state. This could be a pro too. No commute. But some aspects of my job are easier in person

I may have to make a decision on the new job before I hear back about the raise. Or risk losing it.

[CrazyLucky]

If you get the raise, I would definitely stay at your current job.
The one thing I can talk to is the unlimited vacation. I started a new job this year. In my old job, I had five weeks vacation. In this new job, I have "unlimited" vacation. In general, it's not a big deal. In my head, I wasn't willing to take less than four weeks vacation, so I was planning to take four weeks. Now, towards the end of the year, I have eight days left to make four weeks. I need four days for the week between Christmas and New Year's. At my old job, I would have taken a day here or there for shopping or just to have a day to myself. Now, I feel a little more guilty doing that. That might just be me. For me, having unlimited vacation is not a plus. Tell me how many days I can have, and I will use every last one.

[chpmnk1015]

other than pay so if they come through i would stick with job A.

[lust2hart]

What was your reason for job searching? If it was for anything other than pay, I'd take Job B because more pay at Job A won't solve the problem (assuming Job B does solve the problem). But if it is only about the money, I would probably stay put and look again if the raise doesn't come through.

[origami]

I had a frustrating week where a bunch of separate annoying things happened at once and I thought F this place. Some issues have resolved themselves (like my teammate being ridiculous), some not. I don’t see myself staying at this company forever either way. The biggest issue I had when I decided to look around is that the “critical project” I’m on is critical because the people in charge of the product screwed it up and our clients hate it. They built it badly so fixing it is eating up a ton of unnecessary resources and it’s limiting my team from doing all the things we think should be done. Those leaders have since been fired. my whole job is about improving product quality/experience so it’s not the worst thing for me to help drag a shitty system over the finish line. I feel like I’m really helping ppl because of it. It’s just also difficult and often frustrating. We have better leadership now but we still have to do the hard work of un-FUBARing a complex system. This is why I cared about having a boss who knows my role and could actually help me. I often don’t feel qualified to do this job on my own. My coworkers disagree and are very, very encouraging. I’ve never worked with any group as supportive as they are.

It’s a very good job market for my role so I also wanted to just see if I could find something better. Not having worked in this industry for 3y makes it difficult bc most jobs in my specialty have a 3-5y minimum. But the market is so hot they waived that requirement. That fact makes me think I could maybe find something better next year when I pass the 3y mark. But if the economy tanks there will be fewer opportunities of course.

[juliej]

How significant are these salary jumps? i.e. roughly what percentage of your salary are they? I know a jump like that can be tempting in either case, but my first instinct is that Job B really isn't all that great and if I was really going to leave, I'd take my time and keep looking. $6k equity seems like no equity at all (my husband took a new job four months ago and he'll get a minimum of 5-6 times that each year for the next four years, and more if their stock doesn't fall through the floor since the RSUs he was granted were at a discounted price, and he can *also* take advantage of buying more shares through the company ESPP at a discount). And he still gets bonuses and flexible PTO on top of it (it's technically unlimited PTO, but calling it "flexible" instead of "unlimited" has gotten more people to actually use it). He's certainly more senior, but even for for more junior positions I'd expect a better compensation package for an in-demand position.

You should take a job because you're excited to run *toward* it, not because you're running *away* from something else. If it's a very good market for your role, Job B doesn't really seem like the best option out there to run toward.

[origami]

If I got my raise at my current job it would be a 30% increase. Maybe I’m wrong about this but I think it would be very unlikely for me to get a lot of equity at my level unless I went to a start up, which isn’t what I’m looking for. If I were applying as a senior or managerial level I’d expect more. I can buy discounted shares at my current job. I’m not sure if that’s available at Job B. I forgot to ask about that. I think my job is just in demand the way a lot of jobs are right now because there aren’t enough people applying. Not because it’s a high paying, highly technical role. (I’m not a developer, unfortunately lol). I actually got a 3rd offer that I turned down because the hiring manager was strange. I was the only person who applied to that one and it’s a huge company in my area. I was originally rejected by the system for not having enough years of experience but a recruiter messaged me on LI (not knowing I had applied and been rejected) and I ended up with an interview that way.

ETA I hear you on running toward a job. The ones I know I would run toward are so selective I don’t think I’ll make the cut at my experience level. I’m trying to decide if staying 3-5y at my current gig would get me there or if I need to bounce to a more well-known place to pull it off.

[babsbunny]

You mentioned a little about job stability. If you would be hit hard by an unexpected job loss, then job A sounded more stable.

You did not mention health or retirement benefit differences but suggested they were the same. Wanted to triple check here since health care can vary wildly.

I like the "knowns" of job A over the "unknowns" of job B.

[ellipses84]

I think if you get the raise should stick with your current job. I feel like the new job is just a big risk of the unknown in regards to your happiness with your team, your role, office politics, etc. If you were fed up with your job the new offer would be great! Unlimited PTO gets a side eye from me though because I think it becomes a work culture issue and is not truly unlimited without consequences.

I guess you have to weigh how you’d feel if the raise and future promotion don’t materialize as soon as you’d like. Could you reapply for this company or find something else easily? Are you willing to use the offer for leverage to ensure the raise (with the risk of needing to take the offer)? If your intent is to get more for your resume as a stepping stone, job B could be a great move.

[origami]

Dec 5, 2021 10:56:53 GMT -5 babsbunny said:

You mentioned a little about job stability. If you would be hit hard by an unexpected job loss, then job A sounded more stable.

You did not mention health or retirement benefit differences but suggested they were the same. Wanted to triple check here since health care can vary wildly.

I like the "knowns" of job A over the "unknowns" of job B.

Totally agree on the variability. I use my DH’s healthcare so I didn’t even really dig into the differences. I just know both places offer the same types of plans + aren’t good enough to jump from DH’s plan.

[origami]

Dec 5, 2021 19:23:32 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

My sense is that this is really the question at the crux of your decision. What you really want is a Job C but you’re not sure how to get there. In this job market, however, I don’t think you should settle for Job B unless it ticks most of your boxes. You could turn it down and keep looking. (Also, this is risky, but do you think you could use it as leverage to speed up the raise? If you’re the only one who understands what you do, I doubt they’d be happy to lose you.)

As someone who works in big tech, I would say we’re casting a wider net than we ever have before so if there were ever a time to junp from Job A to Job C, it’s now.

you’re 100% right. I want job C and don’t know how to get it… other than hit the magical 3y number and cross my fingers the applicant pool is still working in my favor. I think I’m mentally trying to make job B into job C and I know it’s not. Even if I took Job B I think I’d keep looking for job C.

If I don’t hear anything about a raise in the next 1.5w I’ll ask again. Even if I don’t get it though, there’s enough “pros” at this job that I wouldn’t be miserable in the short term while I keep looking

Thank you everyone for helping clarify what I’m really looking for!

[wildrice]

Dec 6, 2021 8:38:06 GMT -5 origami said:

Dec 5, 2021 19:23:32 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

My sense is that this is really the question at the crux of your decision. What you really want is a Job C but you’re not sure how to get there. In this job market, however, I don’t think you should settle for Job B unless it ticks most of your boxes. You could turn it down and keep looking. (Also, this is risky, but do you think you could use it as leverage to speed up the raise? If you’re the only one who understands what you do, I doubt they’d be happy to lose you.)

As someone who works in big tech, I would say we’re casting a wider net than we ever have before so if there were ever a time to junp from Job A to Job C, it’s now.

you’re 100% right. I want job C and don’t know how to get it… other than hit the magical 3y number and cross my fingers the applicant pool is still working in my favor. I think I’m mentally trying to make job B into job C and I know it’s not. Even if I took Job B I think I’d keep looking for job C.

If I don’t hear anything about a raise in the next 1.5w I’ll ask again. Even if I don’t get it though, there’s enough “pros” at this job that I wouldn’t be miserable in the short term while I keep looking

Thank you everyone for helping clarify what I’m really looking for!

Have you been applying to jobs that have that 3 year requirement? I think you're close enough that many places wouldn't reject you over a few months of experience if you are a good fit otherwise. I always look at years of service requirements as suggestions, not as hard deadlines. Your actual skills and what you bring to the table is far more important than a certain number of months paying your dues in a role.

[origami]

Dec 6, 2021 10:14:12 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Dec 6, 2021 8:38:06 GMT -5 origami said:

you’re 100% right. I want job C and don’t know how to get it… other than hit the magical 3y number and cross my fingers the applicant pool is still working in my favor. I think I’m mentally trying to make job B into job C and I know it’s not. Even if I took Job B I think I’d keep looking for job C.

If I don’t hear anything about a raise in the next 1.5w I’ll ask again. Even if I don’t get it though, there’s enough “pros” at this job that I wouldn’t be miserable in the short term while I keep looking

Thank you everyone for helping clarify what I’m really looking for!

Have you been applying to jobs that have that 3 year requirement? I think you're close enough that many places wouldn't reject you over a few months of experience if you are a good fit otherwise. I always look at years of service requirements as suggestions, not as hard deadlines. Your actual skills and what you bring to the table is far more important than a certain number of months paying your dues in a role.

I have - mostly b/c there are almost zero jobs in my field that allow <3y experience. It's pretty hierarchical with junior/mid/senior positions, unfortunately. Job B had a 3y requirement. So you're right that one was just a suggestion. I've been rejected for many other applications and I know at least 1 was b/c I didn't hit the minimum years (b/c they told me flat out). It's frustrating. But I completely agree to apply and take the chance.