Kitchen island table as only dining area

[Pilsy]

My planning saga continues. I'm pretty sure we're going to pursue lengthening the garage to accommodate better entry to the planned mud room; however, I'm struggling with a kitchen layout that won't require another addition. 

What are your thought on these tradeoffs? I realize our current use of the space doesn't matter to buyers, but I mention it to help explain my motivation for the changes. What I have in mind will definitely work for us, but I'm wondering what it does to resale value. 

Current first floor setup: 
Small kitchen
Keeping room (serves as an extension of the kitchen; home of the dining table where we typically eat)
Dining room (rarely used, except I've carved out a home office in one corner)
1/2 Bath 
Living room

Proposed first floor setup: 
Mud room (9' x 11') with direct access from garage (new) 
Large kitchen (257 sf) - challenging layout means sacrificing island OR limiting dining seating to something built into island (pics in next post)
Dedicated office (9' x 12')
1/2 Bath (unchanged)
Living room (unchanged)

I guess I'm wondering how much of a turn-off it is to not have a dining room or, more specifically, to have the only dining area in the home built into the kitchen design. We are a casual family, and I love the idea, but is a typical homebuyer going to be aghast at the lack of a more formal dining space?  

[Pilsy]

These aren't my style, but they give the general idea of what I’m talking about. We have enough space for the table portion to be about 3' x 6' and the more traditional island part to be 7' x 4'. I would have space for a couple stools on end of the island/bar, too

[Pilsy]

My space won’t look like this, but I guess you could do a relatively formal version!

[dr.girlfriend]

I don't love any of those. Is there room in the living area to do a dining table, "great room" style? Is there any way you can steal space from the mud room? 9 x 11 sounds like a giganto mud room.  Is there a way you could stage the office back as a dining room if you sell?

This is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" situation, because we took the philosophy of not caring at all about resale and just doing what we wanted to do for our house, but we also have no plans to sell and made renovations that would allow us to age-in-place, so we figured at worst we would get at least 20 good years out of it.

That said, we're casual but we still benefit from having a full dining table, especially for parties.  We don't have formal dinner parties but we definitely have parties with a ton of food and people circulating, and the set-up you describe seems really awkward for that.  In all those pictures you posted, it seems like there could easily be a dining table just a foot or so separated from the island, so I would do something like that, even if it were a small dining table.

[Pilsy]

dr.girlfriend, thanks for chiming in. You're always so nice about responding!

I don't love any of them either. lol I have a vision in my head that doesn't really match anything I can find online, but I think you're talking about not only these specific aesthetics, but also the idea in general. I appreciate the feedback.

It's a standard colonial, so no option for a great room. And the mud room does sound large, but due to doorways and windows, I think there is less usable space in there than one would think; I don't think it will work to cut more out of that space. I will need to rethink the office (maybe find a place elsewhere in the house to squeeze it so I can keep that space for dining) or bite the bullet and bump out the keeping room. The way I have it planned at the moment, the office would work as a den or sitting room, but not as a dining room due to size and lack of access from the kitchen.

I suppose I could do both an island and a smaller table, especially if I don't plan for seating on all four sides. I will keep playing around with it. Thanks again!

[ellipses84]

I think not having space for a dining table that fits 8-10 people is an issue in a 3+ bedroom SFH, but why couldn’t a future buyer turn the office back into a dining room if they need one? If the dining area isn’t fully enclosed, you can wall it off with a wide door or double doors. French doors are often used and they could be solid doors or double pane glass rather than single pane glass if you need better sound proofing.

I also suggest taking some space out of the mud room if you can, even if it’s only shifting the wall a couple feet which happens to be the depth of a kitchen counter. That extra space in the kitchen may make other layouts feasible. For a mud room, a 5 foot walkway and 18-24 inch deep shelving, which would only need to be on one side of the long room, should be enough.

[aprilsails]

I went back and grabbed your photo from the previous thread. Hope you don’t mind.

I agree that you should slide the wall over for the kitchen. That should give you enough space to keep the door into the dining room / office. While you might not use it I would keep it to be able to stage the room as a dining room in the future when necessary. If I were you I would not install elaborate built-ins into the office if that’s something you were considering.

If you really need the space in the kitchen from the door, put a Door to Narnia sign on it and place a kitchen cart in front.

[boiler717]

I would try to take space from somewhere to have a bigger kitchen that accommodates a separate table and island. I personally wouldn’t want just an island and I don’t love the combo look. I would love to see layout options!

[penguingrrl]

Not having somewhere other than an island to eat would be a big turnoff to me, and likely a deal breaker for buying a house. It would work fine for every day with us. But I host several major holidays each year and have 12-25 people to seat and feed depending on which side we’re hosting. When we’re at the upper limit we do it buffet style, but still find that people sit at the dining room and kitchen tables, so only having one small space to eat wouldn’t work for our lives.

[kitty]

I wouldn't be a fan of this both for holidays and because I don't like the idea of committing to one "table" style and not being able to change it easily down the road. I would be okay with not having a formal dining area that is in a separate room from the kitchen but I would want more flexibility than having it built in to the island.

I think putting in French doors between the new kitchen and existing dining room is a good idea. Then you can use it as an office but a future buyer could turn it back into a dining room just by swapping out furniture. If you go this route, I would try to leave more than 9x12 if at all possible. Our dining room is 10x12 and it feels small with a 6 person table so losing another foot would make it claustrophobic imo.

[ellipses84]

Seeing your layout again, double doors don’t make sense, but I would keep the two separate doors you have into the room.

[aprilsails]

Our current house has an L-shaped kitchen with a large island and seating space. It is 12’ wide and it was difficult to fit enough space for the large island that can comfortably sit 4 people along one side and have clearance to walk behind.

What are you planning to do in terms of layout? I’m really struggling with your options (as I’m sure you are too).

[memenee]

We are a casual family as well, but I don’t care for this.

Looking at the floor plan above, I was wondering what your living room looks like. Is there space for an armoire/desk thing that you could open up and poof there’s your office and then just shut the doors when you are done working? Or does your line of work require more space/more equipment? I’m just wondering if you could do without a dedicated office space.

Alternatively, your living room looks long. I’m wondering if it could be a combo living/dining room with a big rectangular table at the top of the room.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I am not a fan of the attached table. I think you would loose a lot of functionality of the island by not being able to walk fully around it (looks like the table takes up more room than an attached peninsula. Would it work to have an island and a table not connected (but be inconvenient for every day, but ok for if you are hosting/need the island), but then for every day, push the table up against the island but not have it actually connected.

[thegan]

Jenna Sue designs did something similar in one of her early houses. She made one side of the island into banquet seating, the the table ran the same direction as the island which I think I would prefer. I think it’s definitely a more casual feel, but I could see it working if you like it.

www.jennasuedesign.com/2014/04/kitchen-chronicles-the-reveal/

[twinmomma]

My house only has a giant peninsula/island for eating at. There is no dining room and no space for an "eat in" kitchen table. The peninsula divides the kitchen and living room and can comfortably seat seven people around it (3 per side, and 1 on the end). It gets the job done for daily family life, but it honestly drives me insane that we can't really host people for dinners easily. Holidays are a nightmare. When the kids were younger I was constantly stressed about them falling off bar stools. I've lived with it for ten years because this was supposed to be a starter home that I've never left due to finances. But I certainly wouldn't purposely design a new space this way. I'd try to find a way to work in at least a casual "real" kitchen table or something, even if you can't swing a full dining room space.

[sandandsea]

I love having the island as the eating area. But I like having a larger island and counter height chairs vs an attached table.
ETA. My mom Has an oversized rounded island that fits 6 easily and my cousin has a huge rectangle that fits 10. They both have large kitchens.

[purplepenguin7]

As a recent home buyer a "formal dining room" was not on my list of must haves or deal breakers. We don't have big families and don't entertain much (perhaps because we never had the space but probably more our personality types). BUT, looking at the photos you shared, I would have not bought a house with this layout. I think the ONLY eating area being attached or close to the kitchen island makes the house feel small, and looking at the blueprints shared it doesn't seem to be all that small. Just looking at the pics you shared (which again I know are just examples) I feel the kitchen would benefit from no island and the eating table pushed back a bit to give a look of a "seperate" dining area (if that makes sense?). I'm guessing the island is something you really want with the rennovation though.

All that being said, if you plan on staying a 10+ years, do what works for you and your family. Who knows what people will be looking for in a house years down the line. I wouldn't plan around re-sale value unless I had short-term plans around relocation, expanding or whatever.

[purplepenguin7]

I was looking for an example of what I meant but didn't really find a good one.  But, would the kitchen be large enough to keep an island and set a table (formal or casual) back like this?

depositphotos.com/20219377/stock-photo-large-kitchen-with-eating-area.html

(sorry can't get the image to post)

[annieh22]

Those pics of an island and table perpendicular to each other is exactly what we have and is our only dining area. We love love love it for everyday. They are separate pieces so we can pull the table out if needed or turn it a different direction. That is key (at least for us).

I don’t love it for hosting, but we don’t do tons of that, so it’s not really an issue. And when we host it’s enough people that even if we had a dining room, it would feel tight. So 🤷🏻‍♀️

Your idea can work. We struggled with it too and it was our best option.

[mrsukyankee]

We gave up an island to have a very large dining table in our kitchen (well, actually, it's a pool table/dining room). It really works well as we can use it for islandy things but have a true table for gatherings as well (it's an 8 person table). That might be worth considering instead of what's above.

[sb]

Why do you think you need an island? Is it a big workspace for rolling our stuff or baking? No other good spot for a sink or cooktop? Or is it just because most kitchens have islands now? I think islands are becoming less of a default thing in kitchens.

I think eliminating the island and having a large dining table could work better. You can still use it as a workspace, especially when multiple people are helping out. But it’a a usable dining space also.

[Deleted]

I personally do not like that at all. What if you ever have company? My house is a pretty traditional side hall colonial with the first floor consisting of a foyer, living, dining, kitchen, and 1/2 bath (we added a pantry where the laundry was originally). My H would love to get rid of the dining room and have a huge kitchen but that is something that I am not remotely interested in. Our kitchen is big enough that we have a table and seating for 6 already, and I like having my dining room for if/when we have company, which pre-covid was quite frequently. At the very least, I would need to have a free standing table in my kitchen, having only a table tagged on to the end of an island would be a no-go for me.

[Pilsy]

Thanks for the feedback! Things have been crazy for the last few days, but I'll be back to answer questions and will try to share my sketch. In brief, I figured it was a little out there.  Some of the challenges are related more to continuous walls (or lack thereof) than overall square footage, if that makes any sense. 


Anyway, I will be back! Thanks again. 

[bittybomb]

When we renovated, I purposefully chose not to have an island. Friends had recently renovated their own kitchen and put a massive island in, and it made the space feel cramped. Instead we have a table in the kitchen that seats 6 (family of 5), and also have a formal dining room. I like that I can push my table into a corner when we entertain, which is not something you could do with an island. We have large extended families, and would entertain quite a bit in pre-covid days, so I would really really miss my dining room. I think I would have to pass on a house with no dining room if I was a potential buyer.