How should I handle dd’s “friend” situation?

[Bernadine]

Dd is in kindergarten. Every once in a while, she tells us about a little girl, R, who sometimes pushes or hits her. It got to the point where about two months ago, I emailed the teacher and basically just said I wanted to bring it to her attention the teacher said she’d keep an eye out.

My response is usually to ask dd what she did, and she usually says nothing. I’ve told her that she should tell R to stop or yell NO, or if she doesn’t feel comfortable doing that, to tell an adult. Dd is worried that if she says anything to R, R won’t be her friend anymore. I told dd that friends don’t hit other friends or treat them badly.

Well, h got a call today from the school principal. Someone put their hands around dd’s neck and squeezed during recess. Dd is still at school, so I haven’t confirmed with her what happened or who it was, but I am obviously guessing it was R.

How should I address this with dd? I’m worried that she thinks, for some reason, she needs to be friends with her. How can I build up dd’s confidence?

[HRH Queen Dick I]

Burn it down.

(Btw Where is everybody? Has there been an exodus?)

[TR]

Mar 2, 2022 14:58:33 GMT -5 HRH Queen Dick I said:

Burn it down.

(Btw Where is everybody? Has there been an exodus?)

Is it Lent?

I don't have any great advice for your DD because I'd probably tell her to pop R in the mouth.

[fivechickens]

I agree BURN THAT SHIT DOWN.

What did the teacher say when you initially emailed them?

Just keep reiterating that no one should be putting their hands on her and that friends would not do hurtful things to a friend. ETA: I have told my kids to hit them back TR, not seriously but if someone hits/pushes them first I will not be mad if they defend themselves and if that’s by slugging them so be it.

[soccermama]

I have heard so many of these bullying situations lately, it makes me see fed and absolutely furious. I feel like telling your DD to punch this kid in this face, but maybe that's not the best advice?!

A bullying situation happened to my son last week at school; his teacher emailed to let me know that a kid (or a few kids) had pushed my son down and were surrounding him so he couldn't get up? I think he was scared to tell the teacher because he didn't want to get those kids in trouble. We talked to him about this and said that he definitely needs to tell his or another teacher if that happens.

If that was my DD, I would probably just let her know its wrong for any kid to touch her like that/inflicting pain and she needs to tell the teacher immediately.

[Deleted]

I am a little baffled on why you think your kid needs confidence when a kid choked her. This is not about your kid's behavior but more about other kids behavior. Obviously what happened was wrong and the school needs to help put a stop to this. I'd want a meeting with the principal, the teacher, and the other kid's parent and walk away with a plan of action to end this. If this was R, can R be moved to another class? R should also probably talk to a school counselor because I feel like there are deeper issues at play.

[Deleted]

I would call the school after talking with your daughter. Once you've confirmed what happened, I would insist that this child is kept away from yours - whether it's the same one or a different one. I would tell them that if they can't do this that you will be reporting them to the state. I'd do this on the phone and follow up in writing. The pushing and hitting is bad enough but hands around her throat should be a zero tolerance behavior.

[lilac05]

I’m sorry she’s in that situation. I’d try to wait and see what she has to say when she gets home before deciding what to do. I think my reaction would be a little different if it’s a new child vs one with a history & communication with the teacher about the situation. I’m glad the school called you, and I’d definitely be continuing to work with the school to make sure she’s safe and comfortable at school.

We talk a lot about friends vs acquaintances with my boys. I want them to be kind to everyone, but they don’t have to be friends with everyone. My oldest is a kind, old soul, and wanted to be friends with everyone when he was little. He was especially drawn to kids who were mean to others because he saw that no one wanted to be friends with them, and he was sad that they didn’t have friends. He didn’t want them to be sad and lonely. I love his tender heart, but we also had some hard conversations about that. Growing up is hard.

One thing I pick up in your thread, but might have misread…try not to make it sounds like your daughter did something to cause R to do something bad. One phrase I use often to try and get the whole story without putting blame on anyone is, “Please tell me all about what happened.” And if I think I’m only getting part of the story, I’ll ask, “What do you think X is telling his parents about what happened?”

[Bernadine]

Mar 2, 2022 15:08:33 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

I am a little baffled on why you think your kid needs confidence when a kid choked her. This is not about your kid's behavior but more about other kids behavior. Obviously what happened was wrong and the school needs to help put a stop to this. I'd want a meeting with the principal, the teacher, and the other kid's parent and walk away with a plan of action to end this. If this was R, can R be moved to another class? R should also probably talk to a school counselor because I feel like there are deeper issues at play.

I’m just upset I think that she’s so worried about being R’s friend. Yes, totally agree that this is about R’s behavior!

[lilac05]

My oldest never wanted to get a teacher involved because he just didn’t want ANYONE getting in trouble for anything. Getting in trouble from a teacher, for him, is the worst of the worst. Horrifying. Day-ruining, just because the teacher told him to stop talking to his friend. He can still tell you about the ONE time 3 years ago that he got a non-perfect report on his behavior from school.

So…because that’s how HE feels about getting in trouble, he doesn’t want anyone else to feel that way and he doesn’t want to do anything that’ll get someone else in trouble. That makes sense to a kindergartener. However, he saw the importance of it when we talked about how notifying an adult helps stand up for other kids AND actually helps the offending student learn more appropriate behaviors. In the end, telling a teacher can help a student more than hurt them, because hopefully it’ll be done in a way that helps positively shape future behaviors. Remind her, it’s the OTHER child’s behavior that got them in trouble, not the teacher being notified.

[lucybrown]

She's in kindergarten. At this point in her life, the adults around her should be protecting her. It's not her responsibility to stand up/fight back, etc. I get where you're coming from, but honestly, I don't think it means your kid needs to build her confidence. She's still figuring out how to navigate the world.

I would want a detailed report from school. A phone call was nice, but I need to know more about how it was handled and what will be done to prevent another incident in the future.

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2022 15:12:57 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

Mar 2, 2022 15:08:33 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

I am a little baffled on why you think your kid needs confidence when a kid choked her. This is not about your kid's behavior but more about other kids behavior. Obviously what happened was wrong and the school needs to help put a stop to this. I'd want a meeting with the principal, the teacher, and the other kid's parent and walk away with a plan of action to end this. If this was R, can R be moved to another class? R should also probably talk to a school counselor because I feel like there are deeper issues at play.

I’m just upset I think that she’s so worried about being R’s friend. Yes, totally agree that this is about R’s behavior!

For sure it can be baffling. I would keep reiterating what friends are and how they act. Maybe start asking about other kids that act like friends in her class to see if you can help her pivot to someone else. I will say, I had a mean ass boss and for a long time I tried extra hard to get her to like me and never could. I am a people pleaser with with insecure attachment. Eventually I gave up and realized she just hated the shit out of me. I feel for your kid. 

[daisyduck]

Mar 2, 2022 15:12:57 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

Mar 2, 2022 15:08:33 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

I am a little baffled on why you think your kid needs confidence when a kid choked her. This is not about your kid's behavior but more about other kids behavior. Obviously what happened was wrong and the school needs to help put a stop to this. I'd want a meeting with the principal, the teacher, and the other kid's parent and walk away with a plan of action to end this. If this was R, can R be moved to another class? R should also probably talk to a school counselor because I feel like there are deeper issues at play.

I’m just upset I think that she’s so worried about being R’s friend. Yes, totally agree that this is about R’s behavior!

I get what you mean about building up confidence, you want your daughter to be able to tell the other girl "No" about hitting, pushing or anything else without being afraid of losing her friendship.  My DD is also in Kindergarten and her "best friend" can be a bully (she can also be the sweetest kid you've ever met).  She doesn't hit or push, but she most definitely tries to manipulate my daughter and dictate who she can play with, who she can't play with, what they will be playing and when, etc.  It was really frustrating at the beginning of the year.  My DD would come home crying because "best friend" wouldn't play with her or wouldn't let her play with someone else.  We had many, many conversations about how "best friend" doesn't get to control her or who she plays with.  We said over and over that if her friend isn't being nice, she should play with someone else.

In addition to the talks with my DD, I started actively trying to build other friendships with the hopes of making my DD less dependent on this one friend.  I set up many playdates with other kids and tried to foster other relationships, while pretty much cutting off any playtime with the other girl outside of school.  Between that and all of our talks, I've seen so much improvement over the last couple of months.  The other day my DD came home from school and said "best friend" wasn't being nice so I played with X.  I was such a proud Mom that day.

Now, I don't mean to say this will fix the choking issue as that is very serious and nothing with my DD ever escalated to that level.  Other people are giving good advice on that, so I just wanted to share my thoughts on the "confidence" comment.

[foundmylazybum]

I dont think kindergarteners can developmentally handle the moral complexity of trying to protect their abusive friend from trouble. That's a lot. They seem to lean more into black and white thinking.


I agree with another poster who said that at this point the relationship needs to end and it ends by the adults in the room, definitely not your daughter who hasn't and shouldn't have those skills yet. She's so little.

[jg183]

my son has behavior issues that we are working on. At school they are struggling to supervise him properly so it can be worse there (I am livid with them- another story).

A little girl he is friends with told him she can not be friends with him right now because of his behavior and honestly that intrinsic motivation hit him harder than anything I could have done or said. She said that she would play with him again when he can be nicer. So now he keeps talking about working on behaving so he can play with her.

Obviously her mom coached her but I was really impressed with how she said "now" vs forever and is willing to give him a chance to work on it. Like I said nothing I can say is helping right now but this peer pressure seems to really be motivating.

they are in first grade

[Bernadine]

Mar 2, 2022 16:10:35 GMT -5 jg183 said:

my son has behavior issues that we are working on. At school they are struggling to supervise him properly so it can be worse there (I am livid with them- another story).

A little girl he is friends with told him she can not be friends with him right now because of his behavior and honestly that intrinsic motivation hit him harder than anything I could have done or said. She said that she would play with him again when he can be nicer. So now he keeps talking about working on behaving so he can play with her.

Obviously her mom coached her but I was really impressed with how she said "now" vs forever and is willing to give him a chance to work on it. Like I said nothing I can say is helping right now but this peer pressure seems to really be motivating.

they are in first grade

I’m sorry your son’s school is having trouble meeting his needs.

[definitelyO]

I think the other thing to add is that your daughter is not the one that has to stay inside for recess or be moved from her seat or class. She did not provoke this and R or the offender is the one that has to have the consequences.

I have a friend dealing with this with her son in MS - and he is being bullied, yet HE is the one that has to stay inside during recess, etc... it's bullsh!t.

[Patsy Baloney]

My daughter was oft beat up on as a kindergartener. Honestly? There are a few kids I asked the school to flag as never allowed to be in her class again.

Her teacher did the whole, “Let’s move the one being beat up,” thing, and I was pretty unkind about that. Empowering her to say, “We are not friends right now,” seems like a great idea. But don’t be afraid to stick up for her. She should be safe at school.

[littlelemondrop]

I think going to school and checking her out would be appropriate give the seriousness of the situation. My next step would to be to make sure she feels protected and strongly reiterate what the other child did to her was seriously wrong and that she is fully entitled to protect herself physically, if needed. Any comments regarding her “friend’s” feelings would be gently redirected. Then a conversation that this friend is not a safe friend and she can no longer play with them. Validate feelings, of course, but help her firmly understand this is an adult decision only situation. Choking another person is unacceptable.
Then burn it down with the school. A kid choking your baby?! Never again.

[sandandsea]

I also have a 5yo and can see this situation being a childish mistake (superheroes capturing the bad guy like on cartoons) or having Ill intent (trying to hurt them) depending on the circumstances. Therefore I would try to get the facts from my child and want to talk to the eyewitness teacher and the principal and have a plan on how to keep my child safe before burning it down. Also I do think it’s good to teach your child to protect themselves and not let others hurt them at all ages as there may not always be an adult watching (90 kindergarten kids at recess with 3 teachers). My oldest was born with that natural ability but my youngest had to learn it. We’ve been clear about being a good friend and not fighting but also not letting people hurt you and have told our kids they will never get in trouble from us for protecting themselves. We had to have this talk pretty early on with ds1 as we got called from school one day in preK because he hit someone (who had hit/hurt him repeatedly over a few months, wouldn’t listen when he said no, didn’t stop, was a known instigator - he got fed up one day and hit back).

Our elementary school has social development trainings that every class does that help students learn life things. They are about anti bullying/inclusion, being a good friend/filling buckets, how to stand up for yourself (say no/run away/tell a trusted adult), and other life skills. Could you recommend something like this to help address if it’s a wider problem?

[whattheheck]

Does she not want to get this student in trouble bc she’ll feel bad that they’re in trouble? Or does she not want to get this student in trouble bc she’s afraid of what this student will do in retaliation?

[Bernadine]

Mar 2, 2022 19:01:11 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

Does she not want to get this student in trouble bc she’ll feel bad that they’re in trouble? Or does she not want to get this student in trouble bc she’s afraid of what this student will do in retaliation?

Hmm, that’s a good question.

She wouldn’t really talk about it with me, but she did confirm it was R, and that R did it to another little girl, too. She said it did hurt, she doesn’t know why R did it, but she didn’t cry.

I’ll be calling the principal tomorrow morning.

[loira]

I'm only in here to commiserate, as I don't have any good suggestions on how to deal with the school.

My DD had something similar (but less serious) happen. She's also in kindergarten, and her best friend would occasionally push her when they were playing an imaginary game. In her case, I really did think her friend had just got carried away with the game, which was some sort of cheetahs vs lions thing, and she is a lot bigger than DD and just doesn't know her strength. Regardless, we talked a lot about how "it sounds like BFF is still learning how to be a friend." My DD was scared to tell her BFF no as well, but we talked through other solutions like simply playing with other kids. I told the teacher and it hasn't happened since.

It sounds like your situation is more serious though and I'm sorry you and your DD are dealing with it.

[186momx]

We had something similar happen in K with a girl N who was constantly pushing DD down, picking her up and throwing her, pulling her around. I brought it up with the teacher and got the kids are still learning how to be friends, but it got to the point that DD hated going to school because N was going to push her in the mud/puddle/bush again. Fast forward and another little girl E threatened to kill DD and took a wood chip and used enough force to cut DD's arm. We had been working with DD to report when N pushed her, so she reported E and got taken to the nurse to fix the cut. This got me a phone call with the principal where I brought up N's behavior as I assumed it was N (they couldn't confirm or deny and I hadn't seen DD yet). DD got some visits with the school counselor and was given the choice to hang in the other class when the girl returned from her 1-day suspension. It resulted in both E and N getting the help they needed. E's mom pulled her from school over it and DD got a very nice apology note (last I knew E was in private school). N tormented DD still but staff kept a closer watch on her behavior and DD learned how to yell stop and no loudly to get an adult attention. Fast forward to 5th grade N is still around but leaves DD alone.

OP I hope R gets help she needs, and things get better soon.

[lovelovelove]

We had a friend situation that turned physically violent against dd when she was in 1st grade. My dd was similar to yours that she was nervous she was tattling, still wanted to be friends, etc. I requested a meeting with teacher and guidance. They wanted to know how my dd was doing and what we wanted. I told my kid was scared, but that she also still cared for her friend. They instituted a separation policy (they came up with this)- the two were seated apart during class, couldn't stand in line together, couldn't play at recess, and it was up to the teacher (and specialists) to monitor that it was happening. They told each kid about it separately and we talked to dd about it, basically as you are: kid is not being a good friend bc he is hurting you and telling you what to do, when he can be a better friend maybe you guys can spend time together again. The teacher and guidance told me they were telling the other kid essentially the same thing. They said if it didn't work they would have to move someone's class, but it worked for the couple of months before covid canceled the rest of the school year. It's also now documented in dd's file that she has this separation policy with this child, so each year when classes are selected I just remind them to check in on it (she's in 3rd this year, so it's been almost 2 years).

I get what you're saying about wanting to teach your kid to advocate for themselves- I've been there with this too. But I've had to teach dd (and myself!) that there's a difference between telling someone to not take your toy and being able to tell a trusted adult when something important is going on.

And honestly it was a hard situation. The kid was having a really, really rough go in many other aspect of his life that I was aware of and I felt like I was part of taking away an important friendship, but I had to be there for my kid, and I had to trust the other adults to be supporting the other kid as best they could. I made it clear in my meeting with them that I knew some of the other challenges he had going on and I was hopeful they could try to help him so I could help dd. Ugh. Sorry!

[cville]

I am sick. But I will dose up on meds and travel there to raise hell with you.

[HRH Queen Dick I]

Mar 2, 2022 15:01:46 GMT -5 TR said:

Mar 2, 2022 14:58:33 GMT -5 HRH Queen Dick I said:

Burn it down.

(Btw Where is everybody? Has there been an exodus?)

Is it Lent?

Yes it is. Sorry TR, I'm quitting Twitter instead of ML this time.

[sonrisa]

Have you talked about bullying as a behavior that needs to stop rather than a person being "a bully"? If the school goes with that framework I'd start there. You can talk bout how she needs to say something so people can help her friend change her behavior. If no one intervenes, her friend won't have a chance to learn and change.