Twitter & Elon

[heat40]

Ugh I don’t know what will happen now. But it is a difficult thing to just up and leave considering many use Twitter to connect to a world they would’ve otherwise never have been able to. Think of all the protests, or organizing, or just now with Ukraine. I’m sure the undesirable trolls will be back and make things unbearable, but how do you turn off your attention to all others using it for good? Tough

[wawa]

Apr 25, 2022 13:16:07 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Friendly reminder that your post needs an @@ wawa

Dammit! Thank you for the reminder. Editing now.

[neverfstop]

I think we're going to have to get real serious real quick on "freedom of speech" vs. misinformation. Can you say anything you want anywhere, at any time? No, there are public health & safety restrictions. You can't yell fire in a theatre. You shouldn't be able to spread false, untrue, knowingly inaccurate information online. Maybe this is what Dems in Congress need to get their act together on their "Big tech" platforms.

The EU just past some major legislation
www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/technology/tech-regulation-europe-us.html
As Europe Approves New Tech Laws, the U.S. Falls Further Behind
Federal privacy bills, security legislation and antitrust laws to address the power of the tech giants have all failed to advance in Congress, despite hand wringing and shows of bipartisan support.

[rubytue]

Apr 25, 2022 15:21:03 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I think we're going to have to get real serious real quick on "freedom of speech" vs. misinformation. Can you say anything you want anywhere, at any time? No, there are public health & safety restrictions. You can't yell fire in a theatre. You shouldn't be able to spread false, untrue, knowingly inaccurate information online. Maybe this is what Dems in Congress need to get their act together on their "Big tech" platforms.

The EU just past some major legislation
www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/technology/tech-regulation-europe-us.html
As Europe Approves New Tech Laws, the U.S. Falls Further Behind
Federal privacy bills, security legislation and antitrust laws to address the power of the tech giants have all failed to advance in Congress, despite hand wringing and shows of bipartisan support.

I hate to say this, but it might be one of the best arguments for getting younger people into congress. Sorry, but these octogenarians can’t fix this. Hell, they can’t fix our crumbling democracy.

(I had more here, but it gets too specific to my agency and I couldn’t widgetdize it)

[goldengirlz]

Apr 25, 2022 15:21:03 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I think we're going to have to get real serious real quick on "freedom of speech" vs. misinformation. Can you say anything you want anywhere, at any time? No, there are public health & safety restrictions. You can't yell fire in a theatre. You shouldn't be able to spread false, untrue, knowingly inaccurate information online. Maybe this is what Dems in Congress need to get their act together on their "Big tech" platforms.

The EU just past some major legislation
www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/technology/tech-regulation-europe-us.html
As Europe Approves New Tech Laws, the U.S. Falls Further Behind
Federal privacy bills, security legislation and antitrust laws to address the power of the tech giants have all failed to advance in Congress, despite hand wringing and shows of bipartisan support.

The problem here is the law that shields tech companies from being responsible for the content posted on their sites, or what’s known as Section 230. It’s a major barrier that protects social media sites from liability. I would argue that there’s a business case to be made for policing content to some degree, but as long as Section 230 remains in place, there’s no enforcement.

When someone like Musk posts market-moving information on a platform like Twitter, the SEC can go after him, but not the company itself. So there isn’t a lot of incentive to police that stuff (beyond public pressure.)

[heyjude]

If you stay on Twitter, use it to support union formation at Tesla.

[noodleoo]

Apr 25, 2022 8:46:29 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

So I guess Trump will be back on in no time
Awful.

FUuuuuuccckkkk!!!! I forgot about this. I cannot take him having a mouth piece again. I hope the media has maybe learned it’s lesson and will not broadcast all his bullshit again after Jan 6th.

[neverfstop]

Also, is it really free speech if the algorithm is promoting the most divisive, hate-filled, and inflammatory items?

[goldengirlz]

Apr 25, 2022 17:41:17 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Apr 25, 2022 8:46:29 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

So I guess Trump will be back on in no time
Awful.

FUuuuuuccckkkk!!!! I forgot about this. I cannot take him having a mouth piece again. I hope the media has maybe learned it’s lesson and will not broadcast all his bullshit again after Jan 6th.

Spoiler alert: They have not.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Just an FYI you actually can yell fire in a crowded theater. That's not actually a limit on free speech.

[aurora]

What about the so-called "poison pill"? I read over the weekend that it could only go into effect after a deal was struck (or maybe even complete?). Could it still happen?

[basilosaurus]

timjwise.medium.com/elon-musks-vision-for-twitter-should-scare-the-hell-out-of-you-33a8de172144

I like the end about how he wishes musk well in his endeavor to colonize mars. And that he hopes he's the first off the launch platform.

[Velar Fricative]

Apr 25, 2022 19:11:28 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Just an FYI you actually can yell fire in a crowded theater. That's not actually a limit on free speech.

This is the most mind-blowing part of this thread. Say what?

[Bad Dingo]

Apr 25, 2022 19:22:37 GMT -5 aurora said:

What about the so-called "poison pill"? I read over the weekend that it could only go into effect after a deal was struck (or maybe even complete?). Could it still happen?

www.axios.com/elon-musk-twitter-sale-board-f9dc81ec-da2f-4d48-880e-dec7ce7a3332.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top It looks like when he got financing they took the path of least resistance.

[bears]

Apr 26, 2022 7:52:24 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Apr 25, 2022 19:22:37 GMT -5 aurora said:

What about the so-called "poison pill"? I read over the weekend that it could only go into effect after a deal was struck (or maybe even complete?). Could it still happen?

www.axios.com/elon-musk-twitter-sale-board-f9dc81ec-da2f-4d48-880e-dec7ce7a3332.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top It looks like when he got financing they took the path of least resistance.

I don't understand the financing part here. The sale price doesn't seem to make sense at all--why would anyone lend Musk the money.

This reminds me of WeWork with regards to financing--it just doesn't add up.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Apr 26, 2022 7:45:03 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 25, 2022 19:11:28 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Just an FYI you actually can yell fire in a crowded theater. That's not actually a limit on free speech.

This is the most mind-blowing part of this thread. Say what?

Yep! That line was dicta (not a statement of law) in a case that had absolutely nothing to do with whether you could yell fire in a crowded theater. Justice Holmes was simply musing that perhaps such a thing wouldn't be protected speech.

Even further, the case where it appears as dicta isn't even good law anymore, so even if it was a statement of law (which it isn't), it would've been overruled by the Brandenburg decision.

Even further yet - I'm assuming you can think of circumstances where it actually would be prudent to yell fire in a crowded theater, right? And you wouldn't want someone to keep quiet or be punished in those circumstances, right? Like if the theater is on fire? Or if you think the theater is on fire? Or if there's another compelling reason why everyone needs to get the hell out of the theater?

[basilosaurus]

Apr 26, 2022 8:15:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Apr 26, 2022 7:45:03 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This is the most mind-blowing part of this thread. Say what?

Yep! That line was dicta (not a statement of law) in a case that had absolutely nothing to do with whether you could yell fire in a crowded theater. Justice Holmes was simply musing that perhaps such a thing wouldn't be protected speech.

Even further, the case where it appears as dicta isn't even good law anymore, so even if it was a statement of law (which it isn't), it would've been overruled by the Brandenburg decision.

Even further yet - I'm assuming you can think of circumstances where it actually would be prudent to yell fire in a crowded theater, right? And you wouldn't want someone to keep quiet or be punished in those circumstances, right? Like if the theater is on fire? Or if you think the theater is on fire? Or if there's another compelling reason why everyone needs to get the hell out of the theater?

This all makes perfect sense. What is the intent and also we're there injuries or deaths as a result and did the yelling increase that.

I have been driving myself crazy talking to a non American who loves musk about how this is absolutely not about free speech regardless what asshole musk says. And how there are legal limits on speech as noted above. This is someone just one generation removed from China and grew up in a country that does place limits on speech although minor compared to China. I don't know if/ how that colors his perception or if it's a result of musk worship. Or just being cantankerous and oppositional.

[TR]

I don't understand why we're (general we) even talking about free speech wrt to Twitter. I thought the whole freedom of speech thing was to protect you from government punishment.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Apr 26, 2022 8:29:43 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Apr 26, 2022 8:15:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Yep! That line was dicta (not a statement of law) in a case that had absolutely nothing to do with whether you could yell fire in a crowded theater. Justice Holmes was simply musing that perhaps such a thing wouldn't be protected speech.

Even further, the case where it appears as dicta isn't even good law anymore, so even if it was a statement of law (which it isn't), it would've been overruled by the Brandenburg decision.

Even further yet - I'm assuming you can think of circumstances where it actually would be prudent to yell fire in a crowded theater, right? And you wouldn't want someone to keep quiet or be punished in those circumstances, right? Like if the theater is on fire? Or if you think the theater is on fire? Or if there's another compelling reason why everyone needs to get the hell out of the theater?

This all makes perfect sense. What is the intent and also we're there injuries or deaths as a result and did the yelling increase that.

It actually goes even further. The Brandenburg standard is that the government can't punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action *and is likely to* incite or produce such action.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 26, 2022 9:01:48 GMT -5 TR said:

I don't understand why we're (general we) even talking about free speech wrt to Twitter. I thought the whole freedom of speech thing was to protect you from government punishment.

Yes.

Really, that's all that needs to be said. Incel chucklefucks like Musk like to cry that their freedumbs are being infringed upon whenever their shitty ideas are shushed. When in reality, that speech was never protected in the private sphere anyway. He just pulled a Trump, but on a much larger scale, in buying a platform to say whatever he wants. He could have just went to 4chan.

[goldengirlz]

Apr 26, 2022 9:01:48 GMT -5 TR said:

I don't understand why we're (general we) even talking about free speech wrt to Twitter. I thought the whole freedom of speech thing was to protect you from government punishment.

Technically you’re right. Social media companies have no legal or constitutional obligation to let you post whatever you want.

I assume people are just using the term as short-hand to refer to how heavy-handed (or not) these companies are when it comes to content moderation.

Another piece of this is that it’s nearly impossible to moderate content at scale. It’s a cesspool with or without Trump.

[basilosaurus]

Apr 26, 2022 9:01:48 GMT -5 TR said:

I don't understand why we're (general we) even talking about free speech wrt to Twitter. I thought the whole freedom of speech thing was to protect you from government punishment.

I think because he's framing it as such and lemmings are all, ooh, yeah, free speech. They're not educated enough to know the difference, and newsmedia with soundbytes isn't helping in the least.

As I said above, I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying to explain that it doesn't matter dickhead is claiming "free speech" It is not that issue! It's just the buzzword to get support!

And with him, friend, I even have his own government to compare it to! Like, in his country, it's technically illegal to publish anything that has hebrew or yiddish. Yes! That's a free speech issue! If someone pointed to me, an atheist, and said I'm the reason they're no longer Muslim, I could be jailed, even if it was stumbling across my twitter or facebook (has actually happened and is not hypothetical, so I'm usually pretty circumspect).

We're talking about it because they want us to talk about it. Musk wants to claim to be a savior without actually divulging the implications. Do you really think he's so free speech he'd allow criticism of him?!

Look at my article above about how allowing trolls, disinformation, and hate speech actually has a negative impact on free speech.

[neverfstop]

I'll be interested to see if this is how things roll out. Elon mentioned
1- getting rid of bots
2- making the algorithm open/share ware so we understand what content is being promoted or demoted
3- making sure only humans with a verifiable identity are on there.

In theory, these all seem like good ideas that would improve twitter, no? (disclaimer, I don't use twitter, but read a lot about it)

[neverfstop]

Apr 26, 2022 9:17:19 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 26, 2022 9:01:48 GMT -5 TR said:

I don't understand why we're (general we) even talking about free speech wrt to Twitter. I thought the whole freedom of speech thing was to protect you from government punishment.

Yes.

Really, that's all that needs to be said. Incel chucklefucks like Musk like to cry that their freedumbs are being infringed upon whenever their shitty ideas are shushed. When in reality, that speech was never protected in the private sphere anyway. He just pulled a Trump, but on a much larger scale, in buying a platform to say whatever he wants. He could have just went to 4chan.

Robert Reich is convincing me more and more that we just live in a capitalistic oligarchy.  Musk, Bezos, Thiele, Soros, Koch, etc.   These rich people are pretty much buying and doing anything they want with out anybody being able to stop them.


www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/turning-the-focus-on-americas-oligarchs 

(see also posts on billionaires and tax rates)

[Velar Fricative]

Musk's post above basically is as eye-rolly as when someone running for class president promises to make the cafeteria serve pizza every day. Removing bots sounds very good, but I don't buy it.

[heyjude]

He doesn’t want to get rid of bots. He just wants to be the one who controls them all.

www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-04-12/musk-is-off-the-twitter-board-of-directors-the-tesla-twitter-bot-army-marches-on?_amp=true

[underwaterrhymes]

I trust Elon about as far as I can throw him.

He also claimed if WFP provided him with a plan to help aid world hunger, he’d donate $6 billion.

They gave the plan and look at him over here giving $4.5 billion for a social media enterprise, but $0 to help humans.

He’s trash.

[neverfstop]

Apr 26, 2022 11:28:47 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Musk's post above basically is as eye-rolly as when someone running for class president promises to make the cafeteria serve pizza every day. Removing bots sounds very good, but I don't buy it.

Agreed.

Different topic, how does this buyout get taxed? If you held $1M in shares of twitter, and it turned into $1M cash tomrrow....is that taxable?  I know if you are holding it inside a 401K or retirement, it's just rolled over into whatever new investment you want to buy.   I was just wondering if a lot of people that hold twitter stock will get hit with a huge tax bill, like when you sell stock.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2022 13:18:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Apr 26, 2022 11:28:47 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Musk's post above basically is as eye-rolly as when someone running for class president promises to make the cafeteria serve pizza every day. Removing bots sounds very good, but I don't buy it.

Agreed.

Different topic, how does this buyout get taxed? If you held $1M in shares of twitter, and it turned into $1M cash tomrrow....is that taxable?  I know if you are holding it inside a 401K or retirement, it's just rolled over into whatever new investment you want to buy.   I was just wondering if a lot of people that hold twitter stock will get hit with a huge tax bill, like when you sell stock.

I was wondering about the tax implications as well. 

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2022 14:26:06 GMT -5 @rebeccawelton said:

Apr 26, 2022 13:18:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Agreed.

Different topic, how does this buyout get taxed? If you held $1M in shares of twitter, and it turned into $1M cash tomrrow....is that taxable?  I know if you are holding it inside a 401K or retirement, it's just rolled over into whatever new investment you want to buy.   I was just wondering if a lot of people that hold twitter stock will get hit with a huge tax bill, like when you sell stock.

I was wondering about the tax implications as well. 

www.cnbc.com/select/elon-musk-is-buying-twitter-heres-how-to-buy-twitter-stock-now/

Whether you hold one share or thousands of shares, you will be given a ‘tender offer’. This means that the new owner is buying your shares from you, typically at a premium.

For example, let’s say you purchased 50 shares at $33.84 on Jan. 27, 2022, for a total price of $1,692. Musk is paying $54.20 per share, meaning you’ll be given an offer of $2,710 for the 50 shares you own.

Lauren Anastasio, Director of Financial Advice and CFP at Stash, told Select what shareholders’ options are if the deal goes through:

“They can either take the tender offer...or if the privatization goes through, they’ll still be cashed out for the value of the shares at that time. So either way, they’re not going to be left with nothing. It’s not like their shares are not valuable anymore, they will just be purchased back as a part of the privatization.”

And keep in mind that if you receive cash in exchange for shares, this is considered a taxable event.

“Depending on how long you’ve owned Twitter stock, you would be subject to short-term capital gains or long-term capital gains when the tender happens. You should consult with a tax specialist before making a decision just as you would before making any other trades or financial decisions in regards to the taxation of your taxable portfolio,” according to Anastasio.