Article: The Marriage Lesson That I Learned Too Late

[vasc]

Link: www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/marriage-problems-fight-dishes/629526/

My husband says this article is circulating the Internet now like that Mental Load one did awhile back.

The author also wrote the book “This Is How Your Marriage Ends” about the same topic.

Thoughts?

H tried to use this as a way to say I’m the one who gives him “paper cuts.” I told him not to throw stones in glass houses.

[mommyatty]

I think it’s a fair conversation to have. But I also think that means everyone has to learn to use their adult voices and say “When you do X, it makes me feel Y, and the outcome of that is Z.” Like DH pitches temper fits. Not at people. At stuff. And it’s always driven me bonkers. I recently told him, as he was throwing one, “Your constant bitching and huffing and slamming cabinets is literally the background music of our life. And I’m done with it. No more.” Later, I told him his acting like that makes every person in this house but him live on edge. DS is scared of him. DD has lost pretty much all respect for him, in part because in order to deal with it, I have to literally downplay his feelings to my kids and tell them their dad is an immature asshat. And I’m ready to parent alone rather than parent with a toddler. It’s probably been two months since we had to put up with his temper fits and our household is so much nicer. But you can’t expect your partner to infer “the dishes by the sink to me means you have no respect for me and disregard me at every turn” when all you said was “put your effing glass in the effing dishwasher.”

[vasc]

I feel ya, mommyatty. My DH is also the one we have to “walk on eggshells” around. Typing it out makes it sound worse than it really is, but his emotional state is what sets the tone for our house also. He’s completely oblivious.

[waverly]

If it’s about consideration then we are doing well. We may have other issues probably the main one in the past was don’t take your stress out on me. I can say therapy has done wonders for DH. He always strives to do better. He’s much more mature and made immense strides. It doesn’t mean we are perfect. Right now his side business is kind of killing me, but hopefully the big push will be over in 6 weeks. Neither of us care about the glass next to the sink that helps too that we’ve discussed it and agreed this is a non issue. And if there are other issues we discuss them too. But DH does a lot more housework than he used to also. Not traveling has helped a lot except for now the side business. We also are doing weekly drinks and leave the kids home alone. I think that helps that they are old enough to be home for an hour. It gives us some of our time back to get on the same page.

And not to say we don’t have domestic sticking points but the worst ones got automated (roomba, robot kitty litter).

[mae0111]

I can definitely see how things like this destroy a marriage. From the article, it sounds like his XW did express how she felt about the glass... repeatedly... and he decided that since it wasn't a big deal for him, it shouldn't be a big deal for her.

We have some of that in our marriage. I repeatedly express that something is stressing me out, bothering me, upsetting me... and if it doesn't affect DH in the same way... shrug. Until I lose. My. Shit. And then all of a sudden he pays attention... for a time.

Our latest issue is how much he's been working, and how much is falling on me. He needs to hire someone. But he won't settle for someone with 75% or even 80% of the requirements. 100% or nothing. So you can imagine how the search in a super niche field is going. I had a breakdown, he sprung into action for like a week... and now we're right back where we were.

With the little things, if I bring them up, he gets offended and hurt. He will put a few things in the dishwasher and fill it up, and... leave it. He won't turn it on. So then I'll make dinner and try to clean up after, and I can't put any dishes in the dishwasher, nor can I unload clean dishes. I brought that up, politely, "Hey, if the dishwasher is full when you are finished, can you just turn it on? Then I can unload it later while dinner is cooking and there's space for the dinner dishes." And suddenly I'm the a-hole. He feels like it's nit-picky. I feel like it's just part of the consideration of living with other people.

It's funny... after 15 years of marriage, he told me that he likes the toilet paper roll put on a certain way - so that the paper goes over the top of the roll, rather than underneath it. I... have not thoughts about that, so I was just throwing it on willy nilly. Now I pay closer attention to it, because even though I think it's silly, he notices. And it's a small thing I can do.

[186momx]

Apr 18, 2022 8:10:51 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

We have some of that in our marriage. I repeatedly express that something is stressing me out, bothering me, upsetting me... and if it doesn't affect DH in the same way... shrug. Until I lose. My. Shit. And then all of a sudden he pays attention... for a time.

This is me.  It usually happens during tax season when my work stress is extreme.  When I work 7 days a week at the office and DH can't be bother to unload the clean dishwasher or run the vacuum cleaner.  When he was in therapy his therapist told him he needs 3-4 hours of me time a day and that no one should come home from work and have to do chores or deal with other people.  This pissed me off because he took it to heart and thinks scrolling on his phone for hours while DD and I run around doing stuff is okay because the therapist said so.  He no longer sees this therapist (thank you pandemic).  

This coming weekend he will 100% want us to go someplace or have plans and all I am going to want to do is sit and do nothing which I know isn't going to happen even though I need it.  

[mommyatty]

mae0111, I think the key though is expressing the Y and Z. Not just “ you don’t help when I ask” but “when you don’t help when I ask, knowing I only ask when I’m at my wit’s end, I feel like you don’t prioritize my mental and physical health over your job. Which leads me to wonder if I’m in this marriage alone, and how long it will continue to be worth it to continue this way.” And I don’t mean to downplay it: that deep dive,saying it even to yourself nevertheless out loud, is scary as hell. When I told DH I would rather parent by myself than with someone who acts like a toddler, it made both of us kind of suck in air.

[supertrooper1]

It sounds silly to say my marriage ended because I didn't fold the towels correctly, but it was one of the reasons it did. It was similar to the article, but my ex-H took it to a new level. I would start folding the towels the way he wanted, doing the laundry the way he wanted or loading the dishwasher like he said. But then the rules would change. It still wouldn't be up to his standards or he would change the rules. Sometimes he would complain that I didn't do something like he preferred, only to see him doing that thing a few months later the way I had been doing it and he complained about. Eventually I would give up and quit doing the chore, like doing laundry, but then I would become lazy in his eyes.

I try really hard not to do the death by 1000 cuts with Beau because I know how degrading it becomes.

[waverly]

I feel like they missed this section that was in his article posted in 2016, or maybe just a reading comprehension issue.

"I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.

I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”

But she didn’t want to be my mother.

She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.

She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.

I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time."


I think that is the thing, men are entirely capable of doing everything without being told. I never had to tell DH to buy laundry soap and then explain what soap we buy and where to buy it like some men. I have 2 children, I don't need a third. He is perfectly capable of all of the household tasks.

[sandandsea]

I think it’s really hard to explain the deeper issue though in the moment and to hear the deeper issue without thinking they’re blowing a surface issue way out of proportion.

I get annoyed when Dh leaves dishes by the sink and to go cups on the counter. Dump it in the sink, throw it away, I want a clean countertop. I don’t care about a dirty sink. He thinks it’s no big deal and In no way means it as an insult or disrespectful to me and would think I was overreacting if I said as such. I understand that perspective too. Because really it is just a cup on the counter. Why is my need for a clean counter greater than his need to leave his cup there?

It’s all about compromise and communication. If Something gets your goat say it and do your best to be considerate of the other persons feelings regardless of what you think they should feel. That’s love and respect.

Dh would poo poo all over that article. He also read the mental load one and was like “duh, why does someone have to write that article, it’s obvious”.

[mommyatty]

When I was in law school, I clerked at a firm where two other clerks were guys. One single, one engaged. I was already married. They were having a conversation about how the engaged one (a mechanical engineering grad) was incredibly annoyed because his fiancée refused to turn off the air conditioner and radio in the car, even though he said it was bad for the battery. DH has the same strongly held belief, so they jokingly said, “If we got in your car, would your air and radio be blasting?” And I told them, “No. I think it’s incredibly silly to turn them off, but DH feels more strongly about this than I do, so I turn them off. When it comes down to it, the person who feels stronger about whatever it is in our marriage wins. Because it’s not important enough to me to have this be a thing.” And they both thought that was incredibly profound.

But two exceptions to this:
1) Sometimes it’s a tie, in which case tie goes to the person who generally asks for less, and
2) it doesn’t work if one person is always the one who feels more strongly about everything. There’s acquiescing gracefully and then there’s being a doormat. One is good. The other is unacceptable. And I got to the doormat stage for a while and had to reset expectations.

[waverly]

Our car problem is solved by his car he does what he wants my car I do what I want. I like to be in control of my temperature meaning I adjust it a lot, and he likes the temperature to be “auto” meaning he sets it for 70 and the car adjusts itself.

[sillygoosegirl]

I could have communicated my love and respect for her by not leaving tiny reminders for her each day that she wasn’t considered. That she wasn’t remembered. That she wasn’t respected. I could have carefully avoided leaving evidence that I would always choose my feelings and my preferences over hers.

Are you guys reading this the same way I am? That he's saying if he'd realized how she really felt, he would have tried harder to disguise the fact that he really didn't respect her or care about her feelings or preferences? Because that's sure how it sounds to me. Like he's yet another man who blames his marriage failing on getting caught...

[tacokick]

Apr 19, 2022 1:37:33 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

I could have communicated my love and respect for her by not leaving tiny reminders for her each day that she wasn’t considered. That she wasn’t remembered. That she wasn’t respected. I could have carefully avoided leaving evidence that I would always choose my feelings and my preferences over hers.

Are you guys reading this the same way I am? That he's saying if he'd realized how she really felt, he would have tried harder to disguise the fact that he really didn't respect her or care about her feelings or preferences? Because that's sure how it sounds to me. Like he's yet another man who blames his marriage failing on getting caught...

I don’t know if he realizes it but he is telling on himself there

[waverly]

Apr 19, 2022 1:37:33 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

I could have communicated my love and respect for her by not leaving tiny reminders for her each day that she wasn’t considered. That she wasn’t remembered. That she wasn’t respected. I could have carefully avoided leaving evidence that I would always choose my feelings and my preferences over hers.

Are you guys reading this the same way I am? That he's saying if he'd realized how she really felt, he would have tried harder to disguise the fact that he really didn't respect her or care about her feelings or preferences? Because that's sure how it sounds to me. Like he's yet another man who blames his marriage failing on getting caught...

In a way, yes. There is a lot of oops I didn’t realize I needed to be considerate and care about others feelings in my (the author's) marriage.

He sounds like he cared more about winning the argument and being right rather than her feelings and then is very surprised that his strategy had consequences of her being like well I guess if it’s only about you then I’ll see myself out.

[twinmomma]

Apr 18, 2022 8:10:51 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

I can definitely see how things like this destroy a marriage. From the article, it sounds like his XW did express how she felt about the glass... repeatedly... and he decided that since it wasn't a big deal for him, it shouldn't be a big deal for her.

We have some of that in our marriage. I repeatedly express that something is stressing me out, bothering me, upsetting me... and if it doesn't affect DH in the same way... shrug. Until I lose. My. Shit. And then all of a sudden he pays attention... for a time.

This is a huge part of why my marriage would have failed eventually even without the affair. Not only did XH decide that if it didn't bother him in the same way, it didn't matter, he was also a big fan of telling me that everything I cared about was wrong and I was overreacting about everything. The level of gaslighting was unreal. But if something bothered him? He'd tell me to jump and I better ask how high. 

[sdlaura]

I see myself on the husband side of the article…I don’t think DH and I have a version of the glass by the sink issue, but I do feel like DH shouldn’t be allowed to get mad at me about silly things because of all the big and important things I do for him/our family.

[NotCrazyISwear]

This is how my marriage ended. In fact, this article practically quotes our relationship. If I had a problem, it was just that, MY problem. DX basically went about his business and to this day expects that I'll take care of 90% of the responsibilities (which at this point all center around the kids). He literally would say "if you need me to do something, just ask me to do it." All I really wanted was for him to engage in what I thought was OUR life. But it was always his life, then mine. In the end, I came to believe that I've would be better off doing it all alone. And frankly, I am better off and 1000 times happier for leaving.