Using a job opportunity as leverage with current company

[imimahoney]

Hi, wondering if I could get some insight for my H. Sorry that it got long!

Background: He really likes his current company. Recently promoted (last spring), manages a nationwide team, has impressive responsibility. His company is progressive and is run very well. He is paid well.

He was contacted by a recruiter for essentially his job now. Base pay range is 20% higher than his current salary. Bonus is 20%, where as now he gets a 15% bonus. His job is pretty niche so finding qualified candidates is fairly challenging.

He has no interest is leaving but man, the pay is tempting. He is thinking of just telling his manager about the opportunity and see what his current company can do. Thoughts?

He doesn't want to string the other company along just to say no when he informs his current company of the offer. Anyone do this type of thing before an offer was extended?

Other important info: he recently hired a direct report in a similar cost of living area and he only makes 12k more than the person, which really annoys him but the candidates were demanding so much money the company had no choice to pay high.

[puppylove64]

Dh did this once and his job offered him a $10k bonus to stay. The only issue is, it could backfire and they start treating him bad because they think he has “one foot out the door”

[imimahoney]

Apr 21, 2022 10:53:04 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Dh did this once and his job offered him a $10k bonus to stay. The only issue is, it could backfire and they start treating him bad because they think he has “one foot out the door”

Did he have an offer in hand when he approached his current company?

They recently asked him if he was looking and he honestly said no, but I think in this market and with his skill set they wouldn't be surprised.

[lemoncupcake]

Apr 21, 2022 11:18:24 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Apr 21, 2022 10:53:04 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Dh did this once and his job offered him a $10k bonus to stay. The only issue is, it could backfire and they start treating him bad because they think he has “one foot out the door”

Did he have an offer in hand when he approached his current company?

They recently asked him if he was looking and he honestly said no, but I think in this market and with his skill set they wouldn't be surprised.

If he doesn’t have an offer, I don’t think he has any leverage to use this specific opportunity to take to his company. I think he needs to approach it as the more general/broad salary averages for his industry and how he compares against them.

[imimahoney]

Apr 21, 2022 11:33:37 GMT -5 lemoncupcake said:

Apr 21, 2022 11:18:24 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Did he have an offer in hand when he approached his current company?

They recently asked him if he was looking and he honestly said no, but I think in this market and with his skill set they wouldn't be surprised.

If he doesn’t have an offer, I don’t think he has any leverage to use this specific opportunity to take to his company. I think he needs to approach it as the more general/broad salary averages for his industry and how he compares against them.

I told him something similar but he thinks his company would be scared enough of what a new candidate could ask for to just negotiate without.

[puppylove64]

He had a verbal offer, nothing formal that they requested to see. I think this market gives the employee a lot of room to negotiate

[sadlebred]

I did this once and got a 5% raise out of it. The other company was offering about an 11% increase but some different aspects like having to be on call. So, I was happy with the 5% and still no on call. I really wanted to stay with the company I was with at the time. They are NOT known for matching offers or even caring if their employees leave, but I had a great manager who did care.

[gt7301b]

I had another offer that was a 20% raise and was offered 20% to stay. My org. required a written offer from the other company before they would counter.

He knows his company better, but I know in my org they won't offer anything without an offer in hand.

I would focus on what is the expected salary range for someone with his level of responsibility, not that he only makes 12% more than his direct report. (In my org it is possible to make less than a direct report because of the way the pay scales overlap)

[daisyduck]

I think using another offer to try to negotiate a raise is a terrible idea (trying to do this after only having a conversation with a recruiter is an even worse idea). Either you are happy in your current position (which it sounds like your H is), or you are not and you want to leave. I get contacted by recruiters regularly and could easily go find another job for more money, but I am happy in my current position, have a good boss, great benefits, compensated fairly, etc. If I was unhappy I would talk to the recruiter and try to leave, but I wouldn't use that to try to negotiate with my current employer.

I currently manage people and if someone did this to me I would immediately write them off and assume they were half way out the door. That may vary by industry, but it's not done in mine.

I don't think a Manager making 12k more than a direct report sounds out of line at all. I almost definitely make more than my boss, and my pay scale goes higher than his. I'm sure a lot of this depends on the specifics of the position, but on the surface that doesn't sound unreasonable.

[niq]

My friend did this and felt no remorse. He interviewed, gave his current boss the offer letter, and said "match this or else". He did not give his boss heads up. It's not like employers feel remorse when they lay people off, that's just capitalism baby!

Social norms may differ by industry, but the social norms are all geared to help the bosses suppress employee wages.

[lemoncupcake]

Apr 22, 2022 11:02:29 GMT -5 niq said:

My friend did this and felt no remorse. He interviewed, gave his current boss the offer letter, and said "match this or else". He did not give his boss heads up. It's not like employers feel remorse when they lay people off, that's just capitalism baby!

Social norms may differ by industry, but the social norms are all geared to help the bosses suppress employee wages.

Having an actual offer in hand is very different than the OPs situation -

[fryjack2]

How close is he with management? Can he say that he has been getting more and more recruiting calls and his company's pay is not accurate with the going industry rate and ask if there are plans to adjust the company's pay scale. He likes his job, but clearly this is impacting the company's ability to recruit new talent and retain talent.

I don't agree that telling higher ups that you are paid under market value always makes them write you off. Why would people want to work somewhere that doesn't compensate them fairly?

When H was going through this last summer, he negotiated a very nice counter offer from his current employer. This was done knowing that he will not leave for the next prob 15 years with the right package so he was incredibly honest in what it would take him to stay. He is also very very niche and knows it would be detrimental for his employer to lose him as there isn't really anyone to replace him. It wouldn't have worked otherwise.

[fryjack2]

Also, don't think of it as stringing people along. He is learning about career opportunities. When places interview, they "string" people along until they decide who they want to make an offer to. As long as he isn't saying he will take the job and asking the recruiter to negotiate the best package, there is nothing wrong with learning more about the offer and position.

[ECB]

You need to look at more than just the money. Your DH likes his job and the company he works for. If he decides to consider this other opportunity, he needs to ask questions about culture, etx. Making 20% more for a crappy company isn’t necessarily a win!

If he’s genuinely concerned that his company isn’t paying a fair market rate, that’s a different discussion.

No matter how much he likes his company - he does need to be careful on how he approaches this. They COULD say “oh, you have an offer? (If he gets one). See ya …..”.

[imimahoney]

Thanks for the all the advice! He read everyone's replies and nodded along.

He is still torn but will take a conversation with the hiring manager to learn more.

[Poppy]

My H tried this and didn't get a raise.

Then he legit interviewed with another company, actually intended to switch and when he gave his notice, his manager beat the offer and my husband ended up staying. The manager specifically told H that it was different with an actual offer.

It was a significant raise and so he's very glad he did it! I agree that sometimes it can cost the employee in terms of goodwill and trust, but I also think that it's really common and in some ways, you actually gain respect by negotiating for yourself. Results vary by industry/company, though.

I do think it's possible to build a case for a raise by doing a "market analysis" of sorts, but getting another offer is much more direct and harder for your employer to say, "oh, but you didn't account for xyz".

[mokes]

I feel like it depends on the company and the person's relationship with their manager and how it's presented.

At my previous company, I had a really good relationship with my manager. I was being contacted by recruiters frequently and I knew I could get more $$ but didn't want to leave. I had floated the salary I'd want by recruiters, which was about 20% more, and none of them seemed to balk. So during a 1:1, I said to my manager that I really didn't want to leave the company but I was being contacted by recruiters frequently and the comp I could earn. That I hadn't seriously considered any of the opportunities but felt that at some point I'd need to. That since I'd been with the company, the market rate had shifted for my skills and so annual increases hadn't kept pace. She understood my position and appreciated that I came to her first and gave me the 20% raise on the spot. Obviously this wouldn't work for all situations but I knew her well and how she'd take it, I was genuine in my desire to stay and didn't deliver it as a threat to leave.

[jwright]

Ask a Manager answered a similar query recently; www.askamanager.org/2022/04/how-to-ask-my-company-to-pay-me-more-if-they-want-me-to-stay.html

I agree with having a discussion about market rate salaries instead of implying there's an offer if he doesn't actually want to leave.