Algebra 2 in 8th Grade?

[freshsqueezed]

We were talking to the person in charge of curriculum at our sons’ school. She told us if children are advanced in math they do algebra in 7th and algebra 2 in 8th grade.

Sometime back there was discussion on here about this issue and geometry at 8th grade. There is some belief that geometry in 8th grade was not appropriate developmentally however that is the normal track I see at schools for advanced math kids. So I was wondering if any of you who work in this area have any insight on doing algebra 2 at 8th grade and if that seems more appropriate or no?

[MDmomof2]

When I went to school (35 years ago!) we did Algebra 1, Geometry, then Algebra 2. I was not advanced, but I still did them in that order. My DD is advanced and did Algebra 1 in 7th and is now doing Geometry in 8th. I don't have any opinions on how it is or isn't developmentally appropriate, but I only see a problem if you switch schools in between 8th and 9th and your child has to repeat Algebra 2 and never gets Geometry!

[waverly]

I did Algebra I in 8th grade. I think the general idea was that abstract thought came around age 13. I think I could have probably done Algebra I in 7th and Algebra II in 8th grade because for my curriculum 7th grade was mostly a review. But I think for other kids it may be a challenge. They would truly have to be advanced not regular students on the advanced track.

[stemmie]

In my district, the norm for students who are honors math is Alg 1 split over 7th and 8th grade which puts them on track to complete AP Calc as seniors. This decision is pretty much made at the end of 5th grade when kids are sorted into 6th grade math sections.

For kids who are truly gifted in math and whose parents support it, in 7th and 8th grade some students take the high school bus and start their day with Alg 2, Geometry, or some other math class before taking a bus to the middle school at the start of homeroom. Middle school starts with a "resource period" during which clubs, arts and music activities are scheduled- so they miss things like band or student government to do this.

[Jalapeñomel]

Sequence here: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calc/Calc (some kids don't do pre-calc or do a mix of Algebra II and pre-calc)

[mccallister84]

When I taught we used to do Algebra I, Algebra 2, Geometry. We switched the sequence to Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra 2 when they changed state testing requirements.

Honestly, in many places Algebra 2 and Geometry can be taken concurrently. We have allowed that under both sequences for highly motivated students.

In my experience, all levels of students struggle more with Algebra 2 than Geometry no matter how old they are when they take it or what order they take it in.

[Jalapeñomel]

So maybe this was the original post you were thinking about (because I remember reading one too!):

pandce.proboards.com/thread/630957/rising-6th-grader-academic

[freshsqueezed]

May 3, 2022 10:28:00 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Sequence here: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calc/Calc (some kids don't do pre-calc or do a mix of Algebra II and pre-calc)

This is the track I’m more familiar with only I had Trig in there too. I have no feelings either way but wondered if those who work in this area had thoughts.

[jinkies]

Our district does Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II. My understanding is that it is so that most kids have completed both Algebra 1 and Geometry by 10th grade for standardized testing purposes. I have a close friend who is a high school math teacher here. She has said in the past that Geometry is basically a standalone class that can be taken in any order because it doesn't build on other math classes like Algebra and Calculus do.

[freshsqueezed]

May 3, 2022 10:34:51 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

So maybe this was the original post you were thinking about (because I remember reading one too!):

pandce.proboards.com/thread/630957/rising-6th-grader-academic

It may have been in which case I have it backwards. Discussion was is Algebra 2 appropriate for an 8th grader.

[mcppalmbeach]

Advanced track here is algebra 1 in 7th and geometry in 8th. Algebra 2 is freshmen year.

[erbear]

Middle school teacher here.

Algebra 1 is the typical 8th grade course. Geometry used to follow, but 8th graders, for the most part (insert the part about your genius child here...) aren't developmentally ready for Geometry -- they can do the work, but they struggle to actually understand the concepts until they hit a developmental leap which comes around 14-15. Algebra II is more linear and less abstract, so it actually makes a lot of sense to do it in 8th grade if the school is hellbent on "pushing kids forward". For the record, I think this is a bad idea, but parents are a bit cray sometimes when it comes to competitive math

We do Algebra I over the course of 7th and 8th grades. We think it's more important for kids to have a very solid base there first.

[definitelyO]

not a teacher..
DS's schedule:

7th Grade: Algebra I
8th: Geometry (some Trig at the end)
9th: Algebra II
10th: Pre-Calc/Trig

[freshsqueezed]

May 3, 2022 11:19:27 GMT -5 erbear said:

Middle school teacher here.

Algebra 1 is the typical 8th grade course. Geometry used to follow, but 8th graders, for the most part (insert the part about your genius child here...) aren't developmentally ready for Geometry -- they can do the work, but they struggle to actually understand the concepts until they hit a developmental leap which comes around 14-15. Algebra II is more linear and less abstract, so it actually makes a lot of sense to do it in 8th grade if the school is hellbent on "pushing kids forward". For the record, I think this is a bad idea, but parents are a bit cray sometimes when it comes to competitive math

We do Algebra I over the course of 7th and 8th grades. We think it's more important for kids to have a very solid base there first.

Thanks so much for your response. Yes that is why I’m asking. Is it appropriate? And also important is it necessary? Geometry as a freshman still gets you through calculus so what is all this about? 20+ years ago I went through AP Calc in high school. So now kids are doing Calc 2 in high school I suppose?

I want my child to be challenged but I am not sure this push of math is required in order to be so.

[Doggy Mommy]

We have two tracks. One year above is 7th/8th grade math in 7th grade and Algebra 1 in 8th grade. Two years above is Algebra 1 in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th.

[erbear]

May 3, 2022 11:46:01 GMT -5 freshsqueezed said:

May 3, 2022 11:19:27 GMT -5 erbear said:

Middle school teacher here.

Algebra 1 is the typical 8th grade course. Geometry used to follow, but 8th graders, for the most part (insert the part about your genius child here...) aren't developmentally ready for Geometry -- they can do the work, but they struggle to actually understand the concepts until they hit a developmental leap which comes around 14-15. Algebra II is more linear and less abstract, so it actually makes a lot of sense to do it in 8th grade if the school is hellbent on "pushing kids forward". For the record, I think this is a bad idea, but parents are a bit cray sometimes when it comes to competitive math

We do Algebra I over the course of 7th and 8th grades. We think it's more important for kids to have a very solid base there first.

Thanks so much for your response. Yes that is why I’m asking. Is it appropriate? And also important is it necessary? Geometry as a freshman still gets you through calculus so what is all this about? 20+ years ago I went through AP Calc in high school. So now kids are doing Calc 2 in high school I suppose?

I want my child to be challenged but I am not sure this push of math is required in order to be so.

My humble opinion? It's not inappropriate but it's 100% not necessary and possibly problematic for some kids. Not having a real understanding of the concepts makes math harder down the road, and I don't understand the rush. Someone who take Algebra 1 as an 8th grader can get Geometry and Algebra II in by 10th grade, then move to Trig and Calculus by the time they graduate. 

The push for math is about parents feeling like their kid is going to be "behind" in math, which is entirely untrue.

[mrspez07]

May 3, 2022 11:52:50 GMT -5 Doggy Mommy said:

We have two tracks. One year above is 7th/8th grade math in 7th grade and Algebra 1 in 8th grade. Two years above is Algebra 1 in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th.

That is what DS1 is currently tracking in as a 7th grader. They took a 7/8 class in 6th to cover the basics, then Algebra I in 7th.

And in his case (and most of the kids on the same track I know), it is all achievement and student driven. Why would you put your kid into a class where they struggle or they’re bored? I think having a flexible leveling option in the middle grades is great for allowing different tracks into high schools.
They align the kids starting in 5th based on their aptitude. If a student’s work and understanding of concepts is strong based on what a teacher is seeing in class, then I don’t see any reason not to move them up. Some kids have since stepped back a level or stepped up as appropriate, middle school is a prime time for that flexibility.

[cmeon]

erbear, is the "developmental leap at 14/15" something you can cite or just what you would define as an observation? It's been mentioned by several teachers in similar topics here, but it's not something I've been able to verify in research or really even conjecture in the world outside gbcn. I do place high value on teacher experiences (including yours), I'm just trying to link that particular idea to science.

[cmeon]

As far as the order of the AI/G/AII sandwich goes, it doesn't matter much. It's really a defective American phenomenon- no one else teaches these topics in disconnected chunks.

And unfortunately, our kids do tend to lag behind on math (and likely consequently science) on a global scale, I get why parents worry.

[treschic]

I don’t understand the push at all for this. I think our normal track was “Pre Algebra” in 8th and then Algebra, Geometry and Algebra 2 in high school. If you wanted, you could take an AP class or whatever your senior year but I didn’t because I hated math. If the student wants to pursue a math heavy major in college, I’d maybe try to push them to be one class ahead otherwise I’d keep them on the normal track and then do college algebra through a community college senior year or summer to get it out of the way. Just because the child is intelligent, doesn’t mean it’s necessary depending on their future goals. I only needed algebra for my major, so calculus in high school would have been a waste.

[CurlyQ284]

When I was a kid I was in honors and I did pre-Algebra in 7th, Algebra 1 in 8th, Geometry/Trig in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th, Calculus in 11th then I could do whatever I want and did stats senior year.

There were 2 wonder kids from the grade below me in my math classes. Crazy that that's now standard it sounds like?

[InBetweenDays]

Here the standard path is Algebra I in 9th, Geometry in 10th, Algebra II in 11th. We do have programs that are both one and two years ahead, but they generally follow that same order.

DD is in 10th grade and doubled up on Geometry and Algebra II. Both because Algebra I came very easy to her and because she had room in her schedule and wanted to open up her options for her junior and senior year.

I will say there are scheduling benefits for being a year or two ahead in math (so benefits beyond just going into a math heavy major). You get the requirements out of the way which can then allow you to take other classes in high school. Of course that is a benefit but not a reason to try and do advanced math and no one should be "pushing" their student to be one year ahead.

[abs]

May 3, 2022 14:04:45 GMT -5 cmeon said:

erbear, is the "developmental leap at 14/15" something you can cite or just what you would define as an observation? It's been mentioned by several teachers in similar topics here, but it's not something I've been able to verify in research or really even conjecture in the world outside gbcn. I do place high value on teacher experiences (including yours), I'm just trying to link that particular idea to science.

Yes. I went looking for stats after our last conversation about this and couldn’t find much. I do think there is a push to put kids in higher level classes than they should be but that’s across all classes and not just math.

Anyway since my thread from January on MMM was brought up here I guess I can post the conclusion because I never did. I ended up signing up DD for advanced math which would have her taking Algebra in 8th. I never felt like that was the right call but it was the least stressful for my anxiety prone kid. Last week DD’s teacher emailed and recommended switching her to accelerated. Her current advanced math class has already learned a lot of 6th grade math so she said DD would be bored and she needs a challenge. DD is excited and just needed the validation from her teacher. This will have her doing Geometry in 8th. If she continues to love math she can take more advanced math classes in high school. If not she can take other electives. No pressure either way. So hopefully it’s not a mistake but she loves math and i feel good about this path for her.

The progression here is Algebra, Geometry, Algebra 2, then a math elective.

[formerlyak]

DS is in the advanced math track in our district. He did Algebra in 8th. That's the highest the let them take in middle school here. Then he did Geometry in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th. He will do Precalculus this summer and then two years of Calculus. Our math department feels that Algebra 2 is where a lot of precalculus concepts are taught and precalculus is more of a review for further understanding. They gave a few examples of why. For that reason, I'd be a bit concerned about taking Algebra 2 and then having two years between that and Calculus.

[mccallister84]

I was a middle and high school math DC and disagree that geometry is more abstract than algebra 2. Yes, geometry has proofs but Euclidean geometry is very much able to be concretely modeled for students.

In Algebra 2 you have things like complex numbers, conic functions, higher order polynomials….

No research to back this up, just 10 plus years teaching math.

[jillybean222]

My daughter is in 7th grade now and in the accelerated math program,. They do 7/8 math and Algebra 1 in two years and start high school with Geometry.

[pooh8402]

I did algebra 1 in 8th grade and that was the advanced track. Pre AP geometry in 9th, and pre AP algebra 2 in 10th. Pre cal in 11th and AP calculus in 12th. Didn't help me one bit in college.

I am not an educator so take my opinion with a giant tablespoon of salt but I am of the opinion that algebra 2 in 8th is a bit too much?

At my high school, algebra 2 and geometry were interchangeable as far as when you could take them, and they were typically sophomore/junior courses.

[dochas]

In my son's school the advanced class does Algebra 1 in 7th and 2 in 8th. For kids who did not do 1 in 7th there is a summer course they can take for Algebra 1. If they pass they can do Algebra 2 in 8th.

[plutosmoon]

When I was a kid I took Algebra 1 in 7th, geometry in 8th and Algebra 2 in 9th, precalc in 10th and calc in 11th, then I ran out of math classes. There were 4 or 5 of us that did that, the standard track at my HS was algebra 1 in 9th, geometry in 10th and algebra 2 in 11th. Most kids didn't take math beyond that. About 20 kids started the track of algebra 1 in 8th grade to get to calc by 12th. A handful of kids took geometry and algebra 2 at the same time in 10th so they could take calculus in 12th.

I had no trouble with geometry as a 12/13 year old 8th grader, although I remember finding Algebra 2 significantly easier and always wondered about the order. I always found most math easy and my undergrad degree is in math, so my opinion and experience may be an outlier.

I looked up the local HS here they do 7th and 8th grade math with algebra 1 starting in 9th, it looks like if you take honors algebra it's accelerated. You do algebra 1 for a semester, then geometry for a semester in ninth, followed by a semester of algebra 2 in 10th before moving to precalc/calc. It looks like most follow the algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2 around here, and start algebra 1 in 9th.

[af1212]

May 3, 2022 17:10:32 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

I was a middle and high school math DC and disagree that geometry is more abstract than algebra 2. Yes, geometry has proofs but Euclidean geometry is very much able to be concretely modeled for students.

In Algebra 2 you have things like complex numbers, conic functions, higher order polynomials….

No research to back this up, just 10 plus years teaching math.

[br

What is a DC?