@@Study finds trans kids usually don't change their minds

[sonrisa]

I found this interesting. I know a few people here have suggested many trans kids end up "changing their minds."  They might find this worth reading. Only 2.5% of the more than 300 kids in the study decided they were cisgendered.

www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/health/transgender-children-identity.html

The Study:
publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition

[Deleted]

Yeah, I always figured the “they might change their minds” stance was just a Republican talking point against support for Trans youth.

[Vespasia]

Please add an @ to the title

[penguingrrl]

I don’t think many here have said or thought that trans kids were likely to “change their minds.” That’s a transphobic talking point.

[shauni27]

May 5, 2022 6:02:42 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I don’t think many here have said or thought that trans kids were likely to “change their minds.” That’s a transphobic talking point.

came here to say this, but glad it was already covered.

[ECB]

I have a cousin who came out as trans at around the age of 14. About 6 months ago (now about 19), he "came out" as being cis and told his mom that she has her son back.

I wasn't surprised and actually almost expected it. His father is emotionally abusive and has said and done things over the years where I think it created a LOT of confusion for my cousin. From watching porn w/ my cousin at a very young age, from saying "I'll love my son even if he's straight", to so much more. The dad, because he was so inferior in his own life, wanted to be "different" and then in turn placed that need on his son. If his son was different, he could hang onto that.

My cousin did change his name initially to a very female name, then went by a nickname of that name that is more gender-neutral, and while he has now identified as being male again, he has kept the nickname as his name.

None of this is about "changing his mind". This is about being brought up by an abusive father and at a very confusing age, had thoughts and ideas placed on him. And, quite honestly, probably felt more love from his father when he came out as trans than he had prior.

My cousin is incredibly intelligent and on a recent visit to see us, he and his mom made some comments and had some laughs over his dad (who wasn't there). I think as my cousin is getting older, he's seeing his father through a more clear lens and has been able to distance himself from his dad and his dad's ideas and is now coming into who he really is.

Republicans try to simplify a LOT of deep, layered issues into sound bites. It's easier to try and make it about "changing minds" than it is to actually take the time to understand the issue, understand the kids, their lives, etc. People - much less kids - don't come out as trans just for kicks.

[wanderingback]

I’m going to copy the results below.
I think it’s important to recognize that people do "change their mind" as gender can certainly be fluid. So while I recognize that it can certainly be a transphobic talking point, it is also a reality that gender can be fluid and that some people transition through genders differently. We need to support all people in their health care decisions even if they might have guilt or regret at some point.


RESULTS
We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; the retransition often occurred before age 10.
CONCLUSIONS
These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make them as smooth as possible for youth.

[seeyalater52]

May 5, 2022 8:04:09 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I’m going to copy the results below.
I think it’s important to recognize that people do "change their mind" as gender can certainly be fluid. So while I recognize that it can certainly be a transphobic talking point, it is also a reality that gender can be fluid and that some people transition through genders differently. We need to support all people in their health care decisions even if they might have guilt or regret at some point.


RESULTS
We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; the retransition often occurred before age 10.
CONCLUSIONS
These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make them as smooth as possible for youth.

I came here to say this and I’m glad you did. Retransitions aren’t that common, especially to cisgender identities, but it is extremely important not to let the fact that this is a transphobic talking point obscure the fact that gender exploration should be normalized. That means accepting that people of all ages
do (and should!) “try on” different gender identities/identity labels and expressions. This is a good thing! To the extent that many of our identities are even stable to begin with, a lot of (most?) people do not come into them fully formed and ready to go. Providing new opportunities for self exploration, and an openness to embracing that self exploration, is part of why so many more people, especially young people, do come out to begin with - but if we are rigid in assuming once they’re there they can never shift their identity and self understanding in new or different ways we are failing them.

Acting like “changing your mind” in this context is a bad thing is reactionary. We can’t afford to be reactionary and let transphobes control the conversation in ways that could harm people.

And before someone brings it up, leaving openness for changes and shifts in identities is not the same thing as not believing their identity is authentic or real, and it doesn’t preclude taking steps, social and/or medical, to affirm gender identity and support the transition. We can hold all this nuance at once and professionals in this field DO for the most part hold those nuances responsibly and well.

ETA: I do think the study itself is really valuable and important research, I’m just pointing out that we don’t have to use that research in a knee jerk way.

[shauni27]

wanderingback, seeyalater52,Thank you for pointing that out. You are absolutely right, I clearly had a "fuck the right" knee jerk reaction, so I appreciate your responses.

[Deleted]

I think an important point is that Republicans have used this talking point to deny Trans kids access to important health care (mental health and physical health), and have equated such care with “child abuse” because of the thought that kids below the age of majority can’t possibly know if they are trans or not.

I think most people on this board understand that gender fluidity is a thing, that kids should be allowed and encouraged to explore their identity (to include reassuming a cisgender expression after trying a transgender expression), and that the decision to medically transition from one gender to another or not should be made by the child, the parents, and the health care providers — NOT the government.

[seeyalater52]

May 5, 2022 10:37:47 GMT -5 @villainv said:

I think an important point is that Republicans have used this talking point to deny Trans kids access to important health care (mental health and physical health), and have equated such care with “child abuse” because of the thought that kids below the age of majority can’t possibly know if they are trans or not.

I think most people on this board understand that gender fluidity is a thing, that kids should be allowed and encouraged to explore their identity (to include reassuming a cisgender expression after trying a transgender expression), and that the decision to medically transition from one gender to another or not should be made by the child, the parents, and the health care providers — NOT the government.

Yes, obviously Wandering and I are both aware of that. And yet, any pro access discourse that plays into that harmful narrative creates more harm. It is actually possible - preferable, even - to ensure access to that care in ways that don’t inadvertently signal that it MATTERS whether gender identities are fluid or fixed. Because it actually doesn’t matter.

[penguingrrl]

May 5, 2022 9:22:12 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

May 5, 2022 8:04:09 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I’m going to copy the results below.
I think it’s important to recognize that people do "change their mind" as gender can certainly be fluid. So while I recognize that it can certainly be a transphobic talking point, it is also a reality that gender can be fluid and that some people transition through genders differently. We need to support all people in their health care decisions even if they might have guilt or regret at some point.


RESULTS
We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; the retransition often occurred before age 10.
CONCLUSIONS
These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make them as smooth as possible for youth.

I came here to say this and I’m glad you did. Retransitions aren’t that common, especially to cisgender identities, but it is extremely important not to let the fact that this is a transphobic talking point obscure the fact that gender exploration should be normalized. That means accepting that people of all ages
do (and should!) “try on” different gender identities/identity labels and expressions. This is a good thing! To the extent that many of our identities are even stable to begin with, a lot of (most?) people do not come into them fully formed and ready to go. Providing new opportunities for self exploration, and an openness to embracing that self exploration, is part of why so many more people, especially young people, do come out to begin with - but if we are rigid in assuming once they’re there they can never shift their identity and self understanding in new or different ways we are failing them.

Acting like “changing your mind” in this context is a bad thing is reactionary. We can’t afford to be reactionary and let transphobes control the conversation in ways that could harm people.

And before someone brings it up, leaving openness for changes and shifts in identities is not the same thing as not believing their identity is authentic or real, and it doesn’t preclude taking steps, social and/or medical, to affirm gender identity and support the transition. We can hold all this nuance at once and professionals in this field DO for the most part hold those nuances responsibly and well.

ETA: I do think the study itself is really valuable and important research, I’m just pointing out that we don’t have to use that research in a knee jerk way.

Thank you for this. You’re right, I had a knee jerk reaction. Neither of my older two children identify as cisgender. One is non binary, the other is gender fluid and their pronouns change frequently. We are being supportive as things evolve and following their lead.

[sonrisa]

May 5, 2022 5:47:04 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

Please add an @ to the title

I'm sorry I forgot initially and sorry I didn't see this earlier. Thank you to whomever already did so.

[sonrisa]

May 5, 2022 6:02:42 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I don’t think many here have said or thought that trans kids were likely to “change their minds.” That’s a transphobic talking point.

I might not be many, but I have definitely seen it here - most recently in the discussion of Texas law - and have almost left over it. 

[sonrisa]

May 5, 2022 9:22:12 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

May 5, 2022 8:04:09 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I’m going to copy the results below.
I think it’s important to recognize that people do "change their mind" as gender can certainly be fluid. So while I recognize that it can certainly be a transphobic talking point, it is also a reality that gender can be fluid and that some people transition through genders differently. We need to support all people in their health care decisions even if they might have guilt or regret at some point.


RESULTS
We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; the retransition often occurred before age 10.
CONCLUSIONS
These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make them as smooth as possible for youth.

I came here to say this and I’m glad you did. Retransitions aren’t that common, especially to cisgender identities, but it is extremely important not to let the fact that this is a transphobic talking point obscure the fact that gender exploration should be normalized. That means accepting that people of all ages
do (and should!) “try on” different gender identities/identity labels and expressions. This is a good thing! To the extent that many of our identities are even stable to begin with, a lot of (most?) people do not come into them fully formed and ready to go. Providing new opportunities for self exploration, and an openness to embracing that self exploration, is part of why so many more people, especially young people, do come out to begin with - but if we are rigid in assuming once they’re there they can never shift their identity and self understanding in new or different ways we are failing them.

Acting like “changing your mind” in this context is a bad thing is reactionary. We can’t afford to be reactionary and let transphobes control the conversation in ways that could harm people.

And before someone brings it up, leaving openness for changes and shifts in identities is not the same thing as not believing their identity is authentic or real, and it doesn’t preclude taking steps, social and/or medical, to affirm gender identity and support the transition. We can hold all this nuance at once and professionals in this field DO for the most part hold those nuances responsibly and well.

ETA: I do think the study itself is really valuable and important research, I’m just pointing out that we don’t have to use that research in a knee jerk way.

I agree and I'm sorry if they way I initially presented this suggested otherwise. 

[seeyalater52]

May 6, 2022 0:52:16 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 5, 2022 9:22:12 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I came here to say this and I’m glad you did. Retransitions aren’t that common, especially to cisgender identities, but it is extremely important not to let the fact that this is a transphobic talking point obscure the fact that gender exploration should be normalized. That means accepting that people of all ages
do (and should!) “try on” different gender identities/identity labels and expressions. This is a good thing! To the extent that many of our identities are even stable to begin with, a lot of (most?) people do not come into them fully formed and ready to go. Providing new opportunities for self exploration, and an openness to embracing that self exploration, is part of why so many more people, especially young people, do come out to begin with - but if we are rigid in assuming once they’re there they can never shift their identity and self understanding in new or different ways we are failing them.

Acting like “changing your mind” in this context is a bad thing is reactionary. We can’t afford to be reactionary and let transphobes control the conversation in ways that could harm people.

And before someone brings it up, leaving openness for changes and shifts in identities is not the same thing as not believing their identity is authentic or real, and it doesn’t preclude taking steps, social and/or medical, to affirm gender identity and support the transition. We can hold all this nuance at once and professionals in this field DO for the most part hold those nuances responsibly and well.

ETA: I do think the study itself is really valuable and important research, I’m just pointing out that we don’t have to use that research in a knee jerk way.

I agree and I'm sorry if they way I initially presented this suggested otherwise. 

I dont think there was anything wrong with your post! The research is really interesting and necessary!