Let's talk gun safety

[sent]

May 27, 2022 10:09:09 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Yes, pretty popular since I've seen it a few times.  According to google, also illegal in some states
.

Then it must be illegal here. Raffles are huge fundraisers and the organization has to get a license to hold one. I've been to 2 this year. I feel like people would be fainting right and left if we were walking around the hall and one of the baskets had a gun. 

[sent]

neverfstop, also that MTG link, oh wow. Can somebody, anybody, please run against her and make her go away whenever her reelection time comes around?

[secretagent]

May 27, 2022 10:17:00 GMT -5 sent said:

May 27, 2022 10:09:09 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Yes, pretty popular since I've seen it a few times.  According to google, also illegal in some states
.

Then it must be illegal here. Raffles are huge fundraisers and the organization has to get a license to hold one. I've been to 2 this year. I feel like people would be fainting right and left if we were walking around the hall and one of the baskets had a gun. 

We did a raffle in an organization I volunteer for and had to get two licenses. I agree people would faint if we raffled a gun. I cannot wrap my head around this at all. Some people didn't like the fact we were "promoting gambling".

[slimpickins]

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

[slimpickins]

May 27, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

Sorry if this sounded like I was putting the responsibility on teachers. I am just thinking, maybe this is only organization with enough power to force change.

I am too heartbroken and angry to really think clearly.

[Deleted]

May 27, 2022 10:50:06 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

May 27, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

Sorry if this sounded like I was putting the responsibility on teachers. I am just thinking, maybe this is only organization with enough power to force change.

I am too heartbroken and angry to really think clearly.

They don’t even let teachers choose what they teach, they threaten to put cameras in classrooms so parents can monitor content, and teachers don’t get paid nearly enough. There’s no way they will let a group of (predominantly) women hold that much power. If they strike, they’ll all just get fired.

[waverly]

@villainv , the union protects against firing. But yes, I agree that the white male politicians that are getting paid by the NRA will not care one bit, and those are the ones that don't care about public schools either. So they would be happy if public schools are facing strife. Now if we can get the religious leaders and private schools too, that would be something. (and students and parents of all schools).

[Michelle]

The offsite storage idea is amazing. It will never happen in my lifetime in this country, but can you imagine all the domestic violence homicides that could prevent?

[TR]

May 27, 2022 10:19:31 GMT -5 sent said:

neverfstop , also that MTG link, oh wow. Can somebody, anybody, please run against her and make her go away whenever her reelection time comes around?

She's up this year. She won the GOP primary with 70% of the vote. And the really depressing part is that if you added up ALL of the Democratic votes in her district, it doesn't add up to even half of the votes she alone received.

Source: www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100104611/georgia-primary-election-results

[Michelle]

May 27, 2022 11:07:04 GMT -5 waverly said:

@villainv , the union protects against firing. But yes, I agree that the white male politicians that are getting paid by the NRA will not care one bit, and those are the ones that don't care about public schools either. So they would be happy if public schools are facing strife. Now if we can get the religious leaders and private schools too, that would be something. (and students and parents of all schools).

Funny you say this...

When i watched the reactions from the dudes with Abbott at the press conference when Beto openly called Abbott out, it felt EXACTLY how those men talk to teachers and women in general. Pointing their fingers. Standing up to tower above them. Belittling them. Gaslighting them.

[waverly]

May 27, 2022 11:22:23 GMT -5 Michelle said:

May 27, 2022 11:07:04 GMT -5 waverly said:

@villainv , the union protects against firing. But yes, I agree that the white male politicians that are getting paid by the NRA will not care one bit, and those are the ones that don't care about public schools either. So they would be happy if public schools are facing strife. Now if we can get the religious leaders and private schools too, that would be something. (and students and parents of all schools).

Funny you say this...

When i watched the reactions from the dudes with Abbott at the press conference when Beto openly called Abbott out, it felt EXACTLY how those men talk to teachers and women in general. Pointing their fingers. Standing up to tower above them. Belittling them. Gaslighting them.

Yeah I think it is true that this is far more about power and money than anyone is discussing.  This tracks since some historians say the 2nd amendment was written by southern politicians to put down slave uprisings.  While in the 80's the NRA was still more hunting/ sporting, apparently the change in direction stemmed from the South's reaction to forced desegregation and has been building since then. www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment

[Michelle]

May 27, 2022 11:28:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

May 27, 2022 11:22:23 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Funny you say this...

When i watched the reactions from the dudes with Abbott at the press conference when Beto openly called Abbott out, it felt EXACTLY how those men talk to teachers and women in general. Pointing their fingers. Standing up to tower above them. Belittling them. Gaslighting them.

Yeah I think it is true that this is far more about power and money than anyone is discussing.  This tracks since some historians say the 2nd amendment was written by southern politicians to put down slave uprisings.  While in the 80's the NRA was still more hunting/ sporting, apparently the change in direction stemmed from the South's reaction to forced desegregation and has been building since then. www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment

It's being discussed by people i follow on social media. It is absolutely about power and maintaining white supremacy. No one is fighting so hard for 2A than white men.

[waverly]

May 27, 2022 11:31:09 GMT -5 Michelle said:

May 27, 2022 11:28:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

Yeah I think it is true that this is far more about power and money than anyone is discussing.  This tracks since some historians say the 2nd amendment was written by southern politicians to put down slave uprisings.  While in the 80's the NRA was still more hunting/ sporting, apparently the change in direction stemmed from the South's reaction to forced desegregation and has been building since then. www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment

It's being discussed by people i follow on social media. It is absolutely about power and maintaining white supremacy. No one is fighting so hard for 2A than white men.

There is so much deflection away from what it really is about.  Republicans that I know, think it is about individual liberties, protecting your property (which in itself has a racist connotation because who are they protecting it from except from the "othered", right?, and hunting. But in reality, the 2nd amendment was not really about any of that. 

[sent]

May 27, 2022 11:15:52 GMT -5 TR said:

May 27, 2022 10:19:31 GMT -5 sent said:

neverfstop , also that MTG link, oh wow. Can somebody, anybody, please run against her and make her go away whenever her reelection time comes around?

She's up this year. She won the GOP primary with 70% of the vote. And the really depressing part is that if you added up ALL of the Democratic votes in her district, it doesn't add up to even half of the votes she alone received.

Source: www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100104611/georgia-primary-election-results

That is very depressing. 

Then my next thought is that all gun supporting people should be forced to view pictures of gun massacres. You know how the other side takes out those billboards showing embryos intending to make me feel bad? Let's do the same thing to them. 

[RoxMonster]

May 27, 2022 11:07:04 GMT -5 waverly said:

@villainv , the union protects against firing. But yes, I agree that the white male politicians that are getting paid by the NRA will not care one bit, and those are the ones that don't care about public schools either. So they would be happy if public schools are facing strife. Now if we can get the religious leaders and private schools too, that would be something. (and students and parents of all schools).

I guess it depends on the union/contract because in my case, they would not. When I taught, one of the clauses in our contract (every contract we passed) was a no-strike clause. What it meant was that once under contract, you could not strike. During negotiations between contracts, if they came to a stalemate, after remediation, they could strike. We were under the IEA (Illinois Education Association) and our union rep said this was very common. I don't know if it's common everywhere or just our state. We discussed this at length because some people brought up a strike due to Covid issues (not providing a safe environment, etc). We were told if we went on strike, because of the clause in our contract, we wouldn't be protected, would be seen as refusing to show up for work, and could be let go.

Now, of course, if literally every teacher in the country (or probably even in one state) agreed to walk out, there's no way they could rehire all those positions. But short of that, on a school to school or district to district level, many would be potentially putting their jobs at risk. 

[TamiTaylor]

Still reading through and there’s lots of great ideas. I know this isn’t technically a gun law but I would like to see the NRA lose their tax exempt status as a nonprofit. I feel like that would significantly decrease the “contributions” to these abhorrent politicians.

[TamiTaylor]

May 27, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

Teachers unions are illegal in Texas just a fyi.

[slimpickins]

May 27, 2022 16:56:32 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

May 27, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

Teachers unions are illegal in Texas just a fyi.

I had no idea. They are super powerful up here in Mass.

[sent]

May 27, 2022 16:55:37 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Still reading through and there’s lots of great ideas. I know this isn’t technically a gun law but I would like to see the NRA lose their tax exempt status as a nonprofit. I feel like that would significantly decrease the “contributions” to these abhorrent politicians.

I am trying very hard to not read the gut wrenching stories and only read the gun adjacent stuff out there right now. I keep seeing that this is a powerful organization (I don't want to name it) and saw this organization has 5 million members. That's not a lot considering the population of the US is over 300 million. Google tells me it is $45 to join this organization.

Is there an organization out there already against 2A or pro-common sense gun laws to counteract these asshats? Surely we can join forces and pool together $45 each to combat 5 million idiots. $45 * 5 million = $225 million. That is a lot of money. Annually. 

[AJL]

May 27, 2022 16:56:32 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

May 27, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -5 slimpickins said:

Teachers' unions in every state need to coordinate and go on strike starting at the at the beginning of next year and demand a federal ban on automatic weapons.

Teachers unions are illegal in Texas just a fyi.

No they are not. It is illegal for public employees, including public school teachers, in Texas to collectively bargain or strike. However, teacher unions are not illegal. No unions are illegal for any industry in any state. 

[TamiTaylor]

May 27, 2022 17:24:28 GMT -5 AJL said:

May 27, 2022 16:56:32 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

Teachers unions are illegal in Texas just a fyi.

No they are not. It is illegal for public employees, including public school teachers, in Texas to collectively bargain or strike. However, teacher unions are not illegal. No unions are illegal for any industry in any state. 

Yes you are correct. Illegal was not the right word. We just don’t have unions here that can really hold any weight or do anything. I do not consider our professional organizations to be a union.

[Deleted]

Ugh. So, just to illustrate a point, I just saw a commercial for a local gun store that is having a “Second Amendment” sale. Massive sales on guns, raffles for gun giveaways (I think they said five guns), and because “taxation is theft” they are paying the sales tax (or, I guess, adding a discount equal to local sales tax?) so the customer doesn’t have to. This is in a rural area in a very red county. Oh yeah, and it’s in Matt Gaetz’ district, if that tells you anything about the local political climate.

This is one county over from a county whose school district announced that they will be hiring “guardians” next school year. These are civilians, I guess school district employees, whose job it will be to patrol school grounds with guns.

The message from the right has been “See, we’ve been saying all along that liberals are coming to take our guns away!”

While I know a lot of sane and reasonable gun owners, there are definitely a lot of people who buy into the Republican talking points, and it’s scary.

[MixedBerryJam]

May 27, 2022 9:57:30 GMT -5 sent said:

May 27, 2022 9:25:38 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

stop having raffle giveaways with automatic weapons

Like as a fund raiser? What state is this?

I had no idea this is a thing. Moments like this make me happy to live in an overtaxed blue state. Yes, tax all the guns and gun parts. What state doesn't love more tax money! I would also love 2a to go away but until then, let's make this about more money. Yes to gun insurance. America loves insurance. Collecting premiums and making it impossible to pay out, it's the American way. 

I’m 99.9% sure they’re having a “contest” at the NRA convention RIGHT FUCKING NOW that includes a semi automatic as a “prize.” I went to find a link, and I will keep looking, but I found this from an “outdoor show” that happened in Feb. this year. www.greatamericanoutdoorshow.org/explore-the-show/wall-of-guns/

ETA Yup. Wall of guns in Houston right now www.nraam.org/events/2022-events/thursday-may-26/wall-of-guns/

[sent]

MixedBerryJam , I might expect a gun contest/raffle at a gun convention, but using guns to raise money for softball or raffling them at carnivals? Blows my mind. Then again, this weekend I read some "stories" on some site of gun owners and their opinions from less populated empty states. I read that in some parts of the country, growing up with guns is totally normal for hunting. So I can see why some people may find these raffles are normal. However, it would absolutely be out of place here where if you want to hunt, you have to make a special trip way out there to go do it.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2022 8:43:17 GMT -5 sent said:

MixedBerryJam , I might expect a gun contest/raffle at a gun convention, but using guns to raise money for softball or raffling them at carnivals? Blows my mind. Then again, this weekend I read some "stories" on some site of gun owners and their opinions from less populated empty states. I read that in some parts of the country, growing up with guns is totally normal for hunting. So I can see why some people may find these raffles are normal. However, it would absolutely be out of place here where if you want to hunt, you have to make a special trip way out there to go do it.

It is VERY common in rural areas. Not just for hunting, but for home protection. In an area where it might take the police 15-20 minutes (or longer!) to respond, people feel like they want a firearm to protect themselves (though, I’m not sure from what…). It’s also not uncommon in rural areas to need to protect livestock from wildlife. Even if it’s protecting your chickens from a coyote (which are everywhere). Of course, none of those thing requires an assault rifle, or even a semi-auto.

[dancelnow]

We need to make sure that we’re educated in gun terms in order to advocate for workable laws. I’ve seen a couple of posts wanting to ban automatic rifles. You can only own an automatic weapon with a federal license. That is a weapon that fires more than one bullet per single trigger pull.

Semi-automatic guns reload on their own, but require a trigger pull for each bullet. This is what is typically used in mass shootings.

The long aspect of a rifle makes it more accurate from farther away giving a shooter an advantage over an approaching person with a handgun who can’t accurately fire as far off.

[Bad Dingo]

Anyone who wants to argue the semantics of what a gun is called doesn't care about gun control or saving lives.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2022 14:03:16 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Anyone who wants to argue the semantics of what a gun is called doesn't care about gun control or saving lives.

I completely disagree. I think if we don’t understand the difference and use the wrong terms, we lose all credibility when asking for different types of gun control. The least we can do is educate ourselves on what types of guns are called and what they can be used for, and different types of ammo.

I mean, I just wish the men making laws about women’s bodies would make an effort to learn about them so they can understand the ramifications of their stupid laws.

[chickadee77]

This is maybe a little devil's advocate, but also things I think about.

Normally, I'm all, "Tax! Hit 'em in the pocketbook!" And I still feel that way to a degree. That said, I grew up in rural WI, where hunting is pretty important to fill the freezer for the year - I grew up with a lot of kids that ate venison and other hunted meats year round, and their families didn't have a lot of money. So if owning a gun becomes something only rich people can do, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I agree with background checks, licensing, banning assault weapons. I don't agree with off-site storage, because there is the issue of defense in a different way - for example, (anecdote!) just the other day we had a bear (300 pounder or so, so nice size) that wasn't reacting to us scaring him off. Usually noise will do it, or a round of buckshot, but this one wasn't budging. Nearest animal control is about an hour away, so calling someone wasn't a good option. Thankfully it moved on as we were unlocking the ammo, but it could have become problematic. I also recall several times as a kid calling a friend (my family didn't keep guns) to take care of aggressive/potentially rabid animals. We'd try to trap, first, but that didn't always work.

And I agree that it needs to be done federally so that it's consistent with no loopholes across the board.

And most gun-owners I know are fine with the ideas of registries, classes, permits, etc. They're used to that with other outdoor activities they pursue. We need to swing those people off the fence by framing it that way, I think. Small steps, as someone said uptrend, that add up to a culture shift in 5, 10, 15 years.

[sonrisa]

I agree with Charles Blow: Gun Safety Must Be Everything That Republicans Fear
www.nytimes.com/2022/05/29/opinion/gun-safety-republicans.html