Let's talk gun safety

[neverfstop]

I want a new thread where we can chat about changes, political pressure, citizen engagement, etc. 

I think dems/progressives need to have a coherent strategy & talking points.  I think between this & abortion, we need to talk to everybody we know.....

Forget 'gun control' cause so many people own guns (400 million in the US in case you didn't know) and they don't want to be controlled.  Let's talk "gun safety" since everybody feel like they are "safe with their own gun".  What reasonable measure can we get people to agree too?  There has been a surprising amount of state progress on closing loopholes, background checks, etc in the the last decade.  

I know the NRA is weakened (but still a shill for the Russian disinformation arm), but the GOP has basically picked up the NRA messaging and embraced it. 

Kara Swisher had a really good podcast today www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/opinion/sway-kara-swisher-nicholas-kristof-frank-smyth.html

This episode on Hysterica had a great interview with the founder of "Moms Demand" podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/laws-prayers/id1399025196?i=1000563960667

[lea]

Example of what we have in CT: Ban on certain assault weapons, large capacity magazines, ghost guns. Permit to carry, permit to buy, background checks, red flag law, safe storage.

All of these should be reasonable on a federal level but the GOP are dicks.

cagvedfund.org/ct-gun-laws/

[Deleted]

Mandatory recurring gun safety classes (and maybe a written test), mandatory safe storage/gun safe laws/trigger guards, limits on the amount of ammo that can be stored in a single place, limits on the types of ammo that can be purchased, ways for law enforcement, medical, and mental health professionals to temporarily remove weapons from a person who they believe to be a danger, and temporarily flag so they cannot purchase weapons (either for a set amount of time, or until re-assessed and deemed no longer a danger to themselves or others). OBVIOUSLY banning assault rifles and other semi-automatic weapons.

[Bad Dingo]

Insurance.

You need Insurance to own a gun and people need to be allowed to go after personal property and assets for damage.

I'm 100% all guns being taken away from private citizens. You want to hunt or sport shoot? You have to sign the gun out and are liable for anything that happens while in your possession.

[isabel]

May 26, 2022 18:22:32 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Insurance.

You need Insurance to own a gun and people need to be allowed to go after personal property and assets for damage.

I'm 100% all guns being taken away from private citizens. You want to hunt or sport shoot? You have to sign the gun out and are liable for anything that happens while in your possession.

Oh, I like this! Mandatory off-site storage that allows only the licensed owner who is up to date with safety courses to check it out. And to purchase, you have to show proof of storage location.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2022 20:36:53 GMT -5 isabel said:

May 26, 2022 18:22:32 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Insurance.

You need Insurance to own a gun and people need to be allowed to go after personal property and assets for damage.

I'm 100% all guns being taken away from private citizens. You want to hunt or sport shoot? You have to sign the gun out and are liable for anything that happens while in your possession.

Oh, I like this! Mandatory off-site storage that allows only the licensed owner who is up to date with safety courses to check it out. And to purchase, you have to show proof of storage location.

I would be okay with at-home storage as long as it passes some kind of inspection (like a home permit I guess) — guns separate from ammo, not accessible to children (ie: double-locked, up out of reach, doors alarmed, like you need for a pool). And of course that would require more insurance.

[Dznyprnces]

I keep seeing things about regulating gun storage. And to be clear, I am all for that. But how would it be enforced? People could say they store their guns properly when they aren’t.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2022 20:51:45 GMT -5 Dznyprnces said:

I keep seeing things about regulating gun storage. And to be clear, I am all for that. But how would it be enforced? People could say they store their guns properly when they aren’t.

I think you’d have to do an initial inspection before purchasing any guns, and probably re-inspect if any new guns are added. After that, you’d be criminally liable if your guns were improperly stored and someone other than the registered owner gained unauthorized access.

I do know people who own guns responsibly, (ex: for hunting) and they would be all for these kinds of restrictions. Other than being inspected, they pretty much already do all of this.

[isabel]

May 26, 2022 20:47:34 GMT -5 @villainv said:

May 26, 2022 20:36:53 GMT -5 isabel said:

Oh, I like this! Mandatory off-site storage that allows only the licensed owner who is up to date with safety courses to check it out. And to purchase, you have to show proof of storage location.

I would be okay with at-home storage as long as it passes some kind of inspection (like a home permit I guess) — guns separate from ammo, not accessible to children (ie: double-locked, up out of reach, doors alarmed, like you need for a pool). And of course that would require more insurance.

But how do you prove that someone is actually doing that? Unlike a pool and a fence, a gun is a movable object.

I mean, I'm all for melting down every gun in this country, but we're not depriving people of their right to ownership by making them store it in a secure facility.

[isabel]

May 26, 2022 20:51:45 GMT -5 Dznyprnces said:

I keep seeing things about regulating gun storage. And to be clear, I am all for that. But how would it be enforced? People could say they store their guns properly when they aren’t.

A database and serial numbers. Storage companies would have to record inventory and report it to the database. Of course, this is all unrealistic anyway, but especially so since we don't have digitized records for basic stuff like background checks and weapons involved in shootings.

eta: If you mean at home storage, I'm with you. I have no idea how that would be regulated.

[basilosaurus]

In other countries, surprise home inspections are a thing where they check storage and that the proper amount of ammo has been used. That will never happen in the us.

I also don't see off-site storage readily happening because people are so entrenched in thinking they need it for home defense. Hunters will do it, sure. But are they really who we're worried about?

[Patsy Baloney]

I feel like any sort of measure needs to work at simply making the dumb shit illegal so that it becomes enforceable.

For instance, in my brother’s state, you can point a gun at someone and as long as it isn’t deemed “menacing” it’s not illegal.

What the absolute backward fuck.

So, assault weapon ban back on. Storage stuff - sure, maybe not a surprise inspection, but if the cops are at the house for, say, a domestic violence call and see a pistol on the table that’s not locked up, that’s illegal, no you can’t murder your partner 5 minutes after we leave, you have to go to jail. No you can’t point guns at people, etc. etc.

And whatever laws are put in place must be federal. It has to be the same across the board to keep the flow of the lax ass murder states supplying their neighbors.

[imojoebunny]

In my area, we have many guns stolen out of cars. I would be in favor of making gun owners who leave their guns in cars have finger print locks on them. Some of the ideas above are pie in the sky for my state, especially in rural areas. I think banning the sale of AR-15s to civilians would be a good start. The push back I get from gun people, is that people can make their own semi-automatic weapons with 3D printers, ect, but I doubt little shit fire fuck murder could have done that. Let's just give it a try. What do we have to lose? Do any of you shoot AR-15s for fun? I have a $30 bb gun that Gatorade bottles fear, but my teenager has already seen a neighbor teen come out in a body bag, after shooting himself with HIS gun, at 17.

[isabel]

May 26, 2022 21:45:20 GMT -5 Patsy Baloney said:

And whatever laws are put in place must be federal. It has to be the same across the board to keep the flow of the lax ass murder states supplying their neighbors.

In terms of realistic ideas, this one is key. There are so many loopholes because states handle things differently. Gun laws need to be federally managed, not at the state level.

[mysteriouswife]

May 26, 2022 21:51:35 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

In my area, we have many guns stolen out of cars. I would be in favor of making gun owners who leave their guns in cars have finger print locks on them. Some of the ideas above are pie in the sky for my state, especially in rural areas. I think banning the sale of AR-15s to civilians would be a good start. The push back I get from gun people, is that people can make their own semi-automatic weapons with 3D printers, ect, but I doubt little shit fire fuck murder could have done that. Let's just give it a try. What do we have to lose? Do any of you shoot AR-15s for fun? I have a $30 bb gun that Gatorade bottles fear, but my teenager has already seen a neighbor teen come out in a body bag, after shooting himself with HIS gun, at 17.

I was going to mention the amount of stolen guns in my area. Since TN became open carry guns are being left in cars at alarming rates. The airy has been a hotbed of theft.

[DarcyLongfellow]

A friend of mine proposed a ridiculously high tax rate (like, 1000%) on guns *and* bullets. If a bullet costs $50, it's going to be a lot harder to fire dozens of them at once.

[basilosaurus]

May 26, 2022 23:54:51 GMT -5 DarcyLongfellow said:

A friend of mine proposed a ridiculously high tax rate (like, 1000%) on guns *and* bullets. If a bullet costs $50, it's going to be a lot harder to fire dozens of them at once.

Cue "but they'll just make their"

[suburbanzookeeper]

Unfortunately when you deal with 2A positive people, they typically read "regulation" the same as they read "ban." As a first responder family, we have a lot of these in our social/work circles. DH is ex-LEO, we are gun owners. We shot skeet as a hobby but haven't in years.

If we're holding the 2A as a federal standard, we need to make the laws at the federal level. When the 2nd amendment was written muskets were single shot weapons, I cannot imagine this is what the founding fathers imagined coming from this. I am fully capable as an adult of defending my home with a weapon properly stored and locked biometrically with ammo in a different place (we don't even have ammo anymore). I have no issue passing a mental evaluation, a background check, a red flag review, and carrying insurance (an industry I work in). And if I can't pass any of those, I shouldn't have access to one. I can't buy more than a single box of any decongestant on the chance I may make drugs with them at a time... but all of this is OK!?

TBH, I'm fine with giving them up entirely.

[sent]

How did we change smoking? Like you used to be able to smoke anywhere and everywhere. You could buy cigarettes from a vending machine - my under-30 staff was shocked when they heard this. Now you can't smoke on planes, can't smoke anywhere near a healthcare facility or school, can't smoke in restaurants and bars, etc. I'm not sure if all the laws are federal or state because I remember it was a big deal when New York was the first to stop smoking in bars. Laws were put in about advertising to kids and warning labels. I'm sure money from big tobacco companies was just as huge as the money from the gun companies. Why did we care enough to make it so much harder for smokers?

Smoking isn't a constitutional right so I understand there can be a challenge there. But the constitution has been amended to fix things along the way.

Can we influence gun laws the same way? Right now we seem to be going in the opposite direction - open carry? Leave a gun just out in your back seat? WTF?

[abs]

I would like to see the following:

*Raise the age to buy guns to 21
*Ban all automatic rifles
*Limit the amount of ammo you can buy at one time
*Red flag laws
*Background checks
*Waiting period
*No permitless carry
*yearly safety classes/certificates (could include showing proof of locking them up safely)
*fines for leaving guns in your car
*heavy fines to retailers for not following protocol
*required to carry insurance

I would honestly be fine with just overturning the second amendment entirely but I think this is a good start. There is seriously no reason that anyone needs to own an automatic weapon. There just isn't.

ETA:  There are SO SO many automatic weapons out there.  So many!  Like 20 million I believe I read yesterday.  I would like to see a turn in/buy back program for these.  Anything helps.

[lessel]

Maybe more of a niche policy thing...

@@@
I want regulations about trigger weight/pressure. Basically increase the force that it takes your finger to press down on a trigger so that toddlers and little kids can't pull triggers, but adults with greater grip strength can. I remember reading maybe a WashPost article years back about how ridiculously easy it is to press triggers on handguns, and that trigger weight has gotten lower and lower over the years. Yet manufacturers can increase pressure enough that it's still comfortable for an adult but very difficult for a kid.

[macmars45]

Every law must be at the federal level.

Everyone who wants a gun has to buy insurance for each gun they buy and it gets more expensive for each additional gun purchase.

Ban AR15s and the like. Do a buy back incentive program for the ones out there.

If the gun you purchase injures/kills anyone (even at the hands of someone other than yourself), the gun owner is liable to be sued and/or prosecuted.

You have to be at least 21 to purchase but it's more expensive until you're 25 (when your brain is done growing).

 

[momof2ms]

Literally anything. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

I agree everything needs to be at a federal level.

I personally am in favor of abolishing the 2nd amendment but realize that's not going to happen. With that said, I think we need to reduce the number of guns that exist. So some sort of buy-back program... Maybe I'm naive but I think a moderate financial incentive would be fairly successful. Of course, it wouldn't get rid of everything, maybe not even a majority, but even if we get rid of 25% of the guns out there, that's a shitton of guns.

I'm pretty sure there's a way to regulate ammo - like a huge tax or a limit on the # you can buy - that wouldn't violate the second amendment, and insurance requirements but I'm not totally sure what that would look like.

[neverfstop]

I think that both cigarettes and vehicles provide a good model for us to move forward and have productive discussions. Tons of small steps, each saving a few lives per years, can result in massive changes 5, 10, 10 years into the future. I agree with many of the above ideas as things that the federal government can & should do. Tax the shit out of them, require insurance, allow civil & criminal liability for manufactures and owners, increase requirements for getting one (age, training, background checks, waiting periods, watch lists, etc.).

What can we do to restrict or reign in "gun culture" and stop having raffle giveaways with automatic weapons or political Christmas cards with people posing with their family of guns? It used to be illegal to show people drinking...can we bring back that restriction on anything that promotes guns?

Come for my uterus and I'm coming for your guns....

[sent]

May 27, 2022 9:25:38 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

stop having raffle giveaways with automatic weapons

Like as a fund raiser? What state is this?

I had no idea this is a thing. Moments like this make me happy to live in an overtaxed blue state. Yes, tax all the guns and gun parts. What state doesn't love more tax money! I would also love 2a to go away but until then, let's make this about more money. Yes to gun insurance. America loves insurance. Collecting premiums and making it impossible to pay out, it's the American way. 

[basilosaurus]

May 27, 2022 9:57:30 GMT -5 sent said:

May 27, 2022 9:25:38 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

stop having raffle giveaways with automatic weapons

Like as a fund raiser? What state is this?

I had no idea this is a thing. Moments like this make me happy to live in an overtaxed blue state. Yes, tax all the guns and gun parts. What state doesn't love more tax money! I would also love 2a to go away but until then, let's make this about more money. Yes to gun insurance. America loves insurance. Collecting premiums and making it impossible to pay out, it's the American way. 

It's a thing. Kid's softball team, sure, why not? Church? Yep. It's a frequent thing. Probably more often in the south, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it anywhere.

[Aloe Vera]

I don't know anything about guns or gun laws so maybe it exists in some states but I am thinking about requiring a mental evaluation to possess a firearm like they require truck drivers to pass a physical regularly to be able to drive.
Also, like we do for medication containing opioids, track ammo purchases. Someone can't buy tons of ammo at different stores without being flagged.

[neverfstop]

May 27, 2022 9:57:30 GMT -5 sent said:

May 27, 2022 9:25:38 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

stop having raffle giveaways with automatic weapons

Like as a fund raiser? What state is this?

I had no idea this is a thing. Moments like this make me happy to live in an overtaxed blue state. Yes, tax all the guns and gun parts. What state doesn't love more tax money! I would also love 2a to go away but until then, let's make this about more money. Yes to gun insurance. America loves insurance. Collecting premiums and making it impossible to pay out, it's the American way. 

Yes, pretty popular since I've seen it a few times.  According to google, also illegal in some states


Marjorie Taylor Greene Raffles Off .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle In Latest Stunt 

www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/09/16/marjorie-taylor-greene-raffles-off-50-caliber-sniper-rifle-in-latest-stunt/?sh=589e68fb4acb

WTF is this??  It looks like a crime stoppers website, but these rules are nuts.

www.pcstips.com/sitemenu.aspx?P=custom&D=6&ID=275 

By obtaining a raffle ticket (either by purchase or as a gift) you attest that you are a law abiding citizen of good moral character, may legally possess the firearm(s) won, have intention of using the firearm(s) only in a legal and safe manner, and will or have already obtained instruction on the safe use and operation of the firearm(s) won.

[waverly]

Campaign Finance reform. Arrests for money laundering at the NRA.