Today's WTF news: woman gets STD in car, Geico responsible

[mrsd2006]

I don't even really know what to say about this. 

www.kansascity.com/news/article262267902.html


The Missouri Court of Appeals has upheld a $5.2 million judgment against an insurance company in the case of a Jackson County woman who claimed she unwittingly caught a sexually transmitted disease from her former romantic partner in his car. In an opinion issued Tuesday, a three-judge panel found that the judgment entered against GEICO General Insurance Company through earlier arbitration proceedings was valid.

The insurance companies sought to undo the action, claiming errors were made in Jackson County Circuit Court and the settlement was not done in line with Missouri law. According to court papers, the woman, identified in court records only as M.O., notified GEICO in February 2021 of her intention to seek monetary damages, alleging she contracted HPV, the human papillomavirus, from an insured member in his automobile. She contended the man caused her to be infected with the STD despite being aware of his condition and the risks of unprotected sex. 

[af1212]

🤔

[af1212]

How can Geico be responsible for this but a gun can’t be responsible for injury or death. This country sucks.

[Velar Fricative]

I would have assumed that anything that happens in a car that isn’t related to its primary purpose (travel) wouldn’t be covered, but what do I know?

[sillygoosegirl]

So now if a woman is getting treated for cervical cancer, is she going to get questioned about where she had sex, so her health insurance company can try to make paying for her treatment the responsibility of the car insurance company or the homeowners insurance company?

[redheadbaker]

Considering how the media has covered incidents such as the hot coffee case, I'm reserving my WTF reaction for now.

[wanderingback]

Is there more to this story? There has to be?
Men don't know their health status of HPV because there is no test for HPV for men/people with penises.
HPV has been found under fingernails and on door knobs.
You can get HPV from cuddling with someone.
So many questions and wondering if this is being reported accurately.

[NewOrleans]

The only thing weirder is the fact that it was first decided through arbitration in the individual’s favor.

[af1212]

Jun 9, 2022 17:43:27 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The only thing weirder is the fact that it was first decided through arbitration in the individual’s favor.

I also found this very strange.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 9, 2022 17:43:27 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The only thing weirder is the fact that it was first decided through arbitration in the individual’s favor.

Even if I think this case is weird as hell, I am laughing about how Geico didn’t want to go to court with this and instead went with an arbitrator and that decision has come back to haunt them. ESF

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 9, 2022 17:32:35 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is there more to this story? There has to be?
Men don't know their health status of HPV because there is no test for HPV for men/people with penises.
HPV has been found under fingernails and on door knobs.
You can get HPV from cuddling with someone.
So many questions and wondering if this is being reported accurately.

I’m reading the court document in the link now and it states that during arbitration, the insured person knew that his throat cancer tumor was HPV positive.

[gretchenindisguise]

I’m guessing this is similar to the story where a grandma allegedly sued her grandson for tripping her and making her fall. The actual story was that her insurance company asked where the incident happened and in order for her health insurance to cover it had to file against her family.

[wanderingback]

Jun 9, 2022 18:03:47 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jun 9, 2022 17:32:35 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is there more to this story? There has to be?
Men don't know their health status of HPV because there is no test for HPV for men/people with penises.
HPV has been found under fingernails and on door knobs.
You can get HPV from cuddling with someone.
So many questions and wondering if this is being reported accurately.

I’m reading the court document in the link now and it states that during arbitration, the insured person knew that his throat cancer tumor was HPV positive.

Ahh ok got it! That explains that piece to how he would know he had HPV. I didn't realize he had cancer. Thank you for doing the deeper dive  
But I do wonder how she knew that the HPV came from him unless she literally lived in a bubble her whole life or had some kind of DNA test that did gene sequencing between the 2 of them. I guess the later? Let me know if it gives that detail as well Crazy that she is getting so much money for something that 80-90% of us have. 

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 9, 2022 18:40:11 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 9, 2022 18:03:47 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I’m reading the court document in the link now and it states that during arbitration, the insured person knew that his throat cancer tumor was HPV positive.

Ahh ok got it! That explains that piece to how he would know he had HPV. I didn't realize he had cancer. Thank you for doing the deeper dive  
But I do wonder how she knew that the HPV came from him unless she literally lived in a bubble her whole life or had some kind of DNA test that did gene sequencing between the 2 of them. I guess the later? Let me know if it gives that detail as well Crazy that she is getting so much money for something that 80-90% of us have. 

The document doesn’t go into further detail so I am assuming many more details were divulged during arbitration.

Either she or her lawyers or someone in her life seemed to be brilliant enough to think that this was a viable route to take (i.e. it would never dawn on me to go after the car insurance company in this situation or that that would work), or this happens a lot more than we realize but the rarity and media attention is that the person who sued won.

[mcppalmbeach]

So…if this happened in a house you could sue homeowners insurance then? Sounds like that opens a door for a lot of lawsuits.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 9, 2022 20:51:17 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

So…if this happened in a house you could sue homeowners insurance then? Sounds like that opens a door for a lot of lawsuits.

I mean, in a way, this would actually make more sense. Any time someone gets injured on or by your property (including, I recently learned, if you dog bites someone), homeowners insurance kicks in. And homeowners insurance also includes personal liability coverage. So homeowners wouldn’t surprise me as much.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jun 9, 2022 15:58:52 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Considering how the media has covered incidents such as the hot coffee case, I'm reserving my WTF reaction for now.

Yep.

[fumbalina]

I was reading about this earlier. Apparently, GEICO did not show up for the arbitration, so she won on that. The court case is holding GEICO to its non-contest arbitration.

While this case is ridiculous, I am happy to see a consumer win on any type of arbitration case, that is not typical.

[clairebear]

Jun 11, 2022 8:41:02 GMT -5 fumbalina said:

I was reading about this earlier. Apparently, GEICO did not show up for the arbitration, so she won on that. The court case is holding GEICO to its non-contest arbitration.

While this case is ridiculous, I am happy to see a consumer win on any type of arbitration case, that is not typical.

GEICO didn't show up?! What in the world! H works for GEICO, but in their data analysis side. He hadn't heard of this story, but said their legal department was probably going nuts over this. 

[suzyp]

Jun 11, 2022 14:45:16 GMT -5 clairebear said:

Jun 11, 2022 8:41:02 GMT -5 fumbalina said:

I was reading about this earlier. Apparently, GEICO did not show up for the arbitration, so she won on that. The court case is holding GEICO to its non-contest arbitration.

While this case is ridiculous, I am happy to see a consumer win on any type of arbitration case, that is not typical.

GEICO didn't show up?! What in the world! H works for GEICO, but in their data analysis side. He hadn't heard of this story, but said their legal department was probably going nuts over this. 

They denied coverage for the underlying action, which is the liability of the man, their insured, to the woman. There’s an ongoing lawsuit that’s still pending to determine if there is coverage for this claim. If GEICO wins there, then they won’t be responsible to pay these damages to her. From what I understand, the man assigned his insurance claim to the plaintiff.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jun 9, 2022 17:43:27 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The only thing weirder is the fact that it was first decided through arbitration in the individual’s favor.

that was my first thought too ... i get that arbitration is a way to avoid even more costly litigation but geez ... this one is a doozy. 

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jun 11, 2022 14:45:16 GMT -5 clairebear said:

Jun 11, 2022 8:41:02 GMT -5 fumbalina said:

I was reading about this earlier. Apparently, GEICO did not show up for the arbitration, so she won on that. The court case is holding GEICO to its non-contest arbitration.

While this case is ridiculous, I am happy to see a consumer win on any type of arbitration case, that is not typical.

GEICO didn't show up?! What in the world! H works for GEICO, but in their data analysis side. He hadn't heard of this story, but said their legal department was probably going nuts over this. 

how did GEICO legal 'forget' about an arb hearing ?!? and be a no-show ?? 

[suzyp]

Jun 12, 2022 14:43:37 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Jun 11, 2022 14:45:16 GMT -5 clairebear said:

GEICO didn't show up?! What in the world! H works for GEICO, but in their data analysis side. He hadn't heard of this story, but said their legal department was probably going nuts over this. 

how did GEICO legal 'forget' about an arb hearing ?!? and be a no-show ?? 

That’s not what happened. GEICO was not a party to the arbitration. It was between the man and the woman. They denied coverage to the man so they didn’t defend him. Man assigns his claim to the woman per a state statute.   She initiated a lawsuit to enforce the arbitration findings. That’s when GEICO intervened and moved to vacate the arbitration, ask for a new trial etc because they weren’t part of the arbitration. The court said no and that they could not relitigate whether the man was liable to the woman or the amount of damages.

Separately, GEICO filed a lawsuit that the claim is not covered. That is still pending. That will decide if his auto insurance policy would cover damages like this.

[clairebear]

Jun 12, 2022 18:36:51 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Jun 12, 2022 14:43:37 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

how did GEICO legal 'forget' about an arb hearing ?!? and be a no-show ?? 

That’s not what happened. GEICO was not a party to the arbitration. It was between the man and the woman. They denied coverage to the man so they didn’t defend him. Man assigns his claim to the woman per a state statute.   She initiated a lawsuit to enforce the arbitration findings. That’s when GEICO intervened and moved to vacate the arbitration, ask for a new trial etc because they weren’t part of the arbitration. The court said no and that they could not relitigate whether the man was liable to the woman or the amount of damages.

Separately, GEICO filed a lawsuit that the claim is not covered. That is still pending. That will decide if his auto insurance policy would cover damages like this.

Ahhh, that makes more sense. I can't imagine GEICO actually paying for this. 

[ESF]

Jun 9, 2022 17:46:56 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jun 9, 2022 17:43:27 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The only thing weirder is the fact that it was first decided through arbitration in the individual’s favor.

Even if I think this case is weird as hell, I am laughing about how Geico didn’t want to go to court with this and instead went with an arbitrator and that decision has come back to haunt them. ESF

I AM DYING.

Here's the thing. There aren't actual standards to be an arbitrator. there are arbitration associations out there, like AAA and JAMS, but it's not really like they hire people to be arbitrators. Pretty sure people just say they want to be an arbitrator, send them some money to get listed, and then they are an arbitrator.   So when you file for arbitration, usually you just work out with the other side which arbitrator you should hire, and I think these associations have rules in place if the two sides can't agree.

But if one person chooses a moron and the other side is like, sure, let's go with the moron, you get the moron.  And because arbitration procedures have very limited rights to appeal, you can get stuck with the moron's decision. And there's literally nothing you can do about it.

I don't know WTF happened here, but for the sake of argument, let's pretend this was as ridiculous as it sounds.  

When you've got two businesses represented by lawyers, they usually find someone competent, often with experience in their own industry.  So no risk of hiring a moron, nor any real incentive to do so. If you have a business versus a consumer or employee, again, business will find ways to move the levers to get someone who isn't a loose cannon. And arbitrators looking for repeat business are not going to be too crazy.

But if it's just two regular people, how the fuck do they pick these people from the roster? it's pretty random. So they might have ended up with a moron, and now Geico is stuck.

LOL FOREVER

FWIW, people who represent plaintiffs and consumers are getting better at working the arbitration system, and it's causing the business community to lose their shit. There are services now that are using Insta and tiktok to help people sign up to arbitrate disputes on a one on one basis en masse. Amazon and Bank of America got rid of their arbitration clauses because these things were causing such problems for them.

[ESF]

Also this is nothing like the McDonald's case and you should not let your lack of facts hold you back here in laughing at this.

McDonald's case was a person filing a normal lawsuit in court and the GOP using selective facts from that lawsuit to mastermind a PR campaign about abuse of the courts to get the public to side with business and pass laws limiting their liability. People thinking the plaintiff filed a frivolous lawsuit were wrong, because there was public information available that made clear that the lawsuit was not frivolous and should have led to people seriously questioning the myth that there is an epidemic of frivolous lawsuits.


This case may or may not have been frivolous. We don't know. We won't ever know because arbitration is a secret tribunal that keeps things confidential, unlike our public court system, which rarely seals documents and testimony.

It is also irrelevant whether this case is frivolous. Maybe it is.  But there's nothing harmful in saying you think it's the dumbest shit you've ever heard.  That's because the ruling in her favor is not evidence tha juries have run wild or people are abusing the courts, because this case was brought in arbitration, not in the courts.  It tells us nothing about our court system's ability to weed out frivolous lawsuits.

So make fun of it all you want!

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jun 12, 2022 18:36:51 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Jun 12, 2022 14:43:37 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

how did GEICO legal 'forget' about an arb hearing ?!? and be a no-show ?? 

That’s not what happened. GEICO was not a party to the arbitration. It was between the man and the woman. They denied coverage to the man so they didn’t defend him. Man assigns his claim to the woman per a state statute.   She initiated a lawsuit to enforce the arbitration findings. That’s when GEICO intervened and moved to vacate the arbitration, ask for a new trial etc because they weren’t part of the arbitration. The court said no and that they could not relitigate whether the man was liable to the woman or the amount of damages.

Separately, GEICO filed a lawsuit that the claim is not covered. That is still pending. That will decide if his auto insurance policy would cover damages like this.

Thank you .. that makes a lot more sense. I’m surprised that the arbitrator never asked about GEICO’s status as a party.

[AAM2012]

Jun 13, 2022 9:56:42 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Jun 12, 2022 18:36:51 GMT -5 suzyp said:

That’s not what happened. GEICO was not a party to the arbitration. It was between the man and the woman. They denied coverage to the man so they didn’t defend him. Man assigns his claim to the woman per a state statute.   She initiated a lawsuit to enforce the arbitration findings. That’s when GEICO intervened and moved to vacate the arbitration, ask for a new trial etc because they weren’t part of the arbitration. The court said no and that they could not relitigate whether the man was liable to the woman or the amount of damages.

Separately, GEICO filed a lawsuit that the claim is not covered. That is still pending. That will decide if his auto insurance policy would cover damages like this.

Thank you .. that makes a lot more sense. I’m surprised that the arbitrator never asked about GEICO’s status as a party.

They wouldn’t be required to…the man had nothing to lose IMO based on the additional info coming out.

It sounds like Geico denied his claim versus filing a reservation of rights and providing a defense.

I’m sure the plaintiff attorney gave him a number to another attorney who told him to proceed and then after the award sign the claim over to this woman. Therefore, it wouldn’t go against his credit, he wouldn’t pay a dime and the plaintiff can go after those with deeper pockets (geico)

I also believe this was an umbrella policy so it will be interesting to see what the coverage decision is based on the allegations.