Women Work Differently? Anybody want to discuss?

[wawa]

Inspired by a specific study, but is something I think about pretty often.  I read this summary this morning on a recent study that found that in their study conditions, female dominated teams were more productive with a cooperative communication style (i.e. taking turns), which was more prevalent in a team structure with a clear and predictable leader, but male dominated teams were the opposite - they were more productive with a more competitive style (i.e. more interrupting) which was fostered by teams with no clear leader or a potential for leadership change in the future (i.e. the leader could be voted out if desired)

www.cmu.edu/tepper/news/stories/2022/june/team-composition-working-together-research.html

This echos past research I think, thinking specifically about things I read in some leadership books focused on women during past professional mentoring stuff, specifically The Confidence Code (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062230638) and I think at least one other, but can't call the title to mind. 

And I think it is intuitively reasonable if you think about stereotypes of communication styles. But...I always get stuck on "ok, so what do you do with that information?" and is it inherently true, or just a factor of how we socialize girls vs boys in the US? 

I manage a team that's 50/50 male/female.  I work at a woman owned company in a male dominated field, so on any given day I can be in a meeting dominated by our female heavy leadership group, or a client team where I'm the only or one of a smattering of women or anything in between. So if I'm working with a group primarily of women, does it make sense to default to setting up a clear team leader but not doing that if the group is mostly male?  But then am I losing the voice of minority group? It makes more sense to me to nudge everyone into a cooperative communication style because it seems easier for a bold person to rein themselves in than for somebody uncomfortable with a competitive atmosphere to push forward, but is that my bias talking?

also has anybody ever seen any research on whether these findings hold true when you control for race?  or national origin?  or have guesses about if that would be significant?  

Every time I read something that is supposed to some insight into women in leadership or business, I always find myself nodding along to 60% of it and then getting very meh about the conclusions.  They always feel really focused on a specific flavor of (white) women in a specific kind of business with a specific kind of background.  I'm NOT particularly empathetic is the main thing, and I have poor impulse control so I jump into conversations willy nilly at times. so a lot of that just feels like empty stereotypes that I don't identify with. And then I work with men who don't seem like they'd thrive in a setting without clear leadership or where there's a more competitive aspect.  Hell my own husband if people keep talking over him will just 100% disengage and stop contributing.  So then it all just seems totally arbitrary and I have to wonder if these studies are skewed or if my sample of personal anecdotes is really unusual or if it's all just bullshit or.....if i think about it too much.  


  

[SwimDeep]

I think these studies would be more useful if they weren't based on gender. In my experience, anecdotal I know, I'm interrupted by women leaders as often as men leaders. The stereotypes make it easy to neatly organize people into tidy boxes, so I get the appeal but don't think studies like these manage to get at the truth.

I'm a woman in a very male dominated field and am trying to learn to speak up more in meetings. My manager/team leader is a woman and has no issue talking over people (including me) when she has something to say.

I think studies like this are too general and miss the nuances of different personalities and perspectives. Or maybe my experience shows that women are finding their voices and no longer willing to be accept those stereotypical labels.

[Michelle]

I agree with SwimDeep.

I really like the communication style model called DISC. If you are unfamiliar, it categorizes people into Dominance, Conscientiousness, Influence, and Steadiness.

If I remember correctly, there have been studies done that show women may show up in certain categories more than men and vice versa, but communication style from a leader must heavily influence team dynamics.

Also I agree with wawa that there needs to be more studies that include the intersection of race and nationality into this area. How I lead my team definitely has to flex based on all those factors. And some meetings are a lot more productive if I align the strengths and styles with the type of interaction and outcomes. That takes a LOT of work though and it can be exhausting.

[wawa]

Jul 6, 2022 11:03:03 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

I think these studies would be more useful if they weren't based on gender. In my experience, anecdotal I know, I'm interrupted by women leaders as often as men leaders. The stereotypes make it easy to neatly organize people into tidy boxes, so I get the appeal but don't think studies like these manage to get at the truth.

I'm a woman in a very male dominated field and am trying to learn to speak up more in meetings. My manager/team leader is a woman and has no issue talking over people (including me) when she has something to say.

I think studies like this are too general and miss the nuances of different personalities and perspectives. Or maybe my experience shows that women are finding their voices and no longer willing to be accept those stereotypical labels.

One of the things I'm really curious about is whether this study set out to study this through a gender lens, or if that just popped out of the data on the back end.  
I'm also curious if they looked at any other demographic factors on the teams. 
but I can't access the full article, so I don't know. 

They also were pulling these study participants from a college pool at either Hopkins or Carnegie Mellon.  So BIG skew there in the general demographics of that group. Going to be higher income than average, probably strong asian-american and international student representation, but LOW black and hispanic for sure.  (I went to CMU so very familiar with their demographics - which have shifted a bit since my time, but not a lot)

I think that's the thing that I struggle with though, is that the overall trends and statistics may say that women are more likely to communicate like x and men are more likely to communicate like y, but on a day to day basis when you're working with a team of people - is that actually helpful or meaningful?  I don't think that it is, but at the same time I'd say that knowing where there are widely measured gender based differences in outcomes IS important so you can make sure you're not perpetuating whatever causes it?  

[rubytue]

Like any behavioral study, general norms and findings do not apply to everyone. It’s more a tendency. But yeah, I don’t generally identify with many of the these type things. Then again, I’ve had women tell me I’m abrasive. So there is that.

I’m not entirely sure if it’s intrinsically me, or if is the environment I’ve worked most of my career in (engineers), but I recognize I tended to be more “competitive” in my team dynamic style. And I do interrupt and have talked over people. But these are things I am trying to dial back (except with one boss). And I’ve also made a conscious effort to watch it I’m team dynamics and, when I see someone get talked over, I will make sure to give them an opportunity. Perhaps managing teams has helped me recognize it in myself more?

[Michelle]

Jul 6, 2022 11:37:34 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jul 6, 2022 11:03:03 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

I think that's the thing that I struggle with though, is that the overall trends and statistics may say that women are more likely to communicate like x and men are more likely to communicate like y, but on a day to day basis when you're working with a team of people - is that actually helpful or meaningful?  I don't think that it is, but at the same time I'd say that knowing where there are widely measured gender based differences in outcomes IS important so you can make sure you're not perpetuating whatever causes it?  

When i think of this through the lens of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, the studies and "trends" are helpful to the extent that they may cue to look for possible styles proactively. But if we consider all the dimensions of the Diversity Wheel, we remember that each individual could have so many hidden layers that impact their perspective, identity and behavior, that we have to relate to each individual separately and uniquely, to the best of our ability.

[loira]

Agree that this study seems to completely ignore/disregard other cultural norms. I only spent one year working in South Korea, but I cannot imagine Korean men shouting over each other in a professional setting or enjoying having no clear leadership.

[wawa]

Jul 6, 2022 12:44:02 GMT -5 loira said:

Agree that this study seems to completely ignore/disregard other cultural norms. I only spent one year working in South Korea, but I cannot imagine Korean men shouting over each other in a professional setting or enjoying having no clear leadership.

It's interesting to hear you frame it that way.  And I know I was doing it too...but are they shouting over each other?  Is interrupting necessarily a negative? 
I'm picturing like really lively brainstorming sessions where people are jumping in to add to and embellish on other people's ideas.  there's not usually a clear leader in a setting like that, and there is usually a ton of interrupting as people just blurt out whatever pops in their heads. 

I know my conversations with my sister sound RIDICULOUS to other people because we're constantly jumping into each other's sentences.  in that situation it's not aggressive interrupting at all, and is actually a sign that we're communicating really efficiently and effectively.

ETA: though it's funny you mention Korea specifically, since one of the study authors is at Korea University.  But when I clicked through to the abstract, the study participants are from a "midatlantic university" - so I'm assuming either hopkins or CMU since that's where three of the other authors are at.

[Michelle]

Jul 6, 2022 15:23:21 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jul 6, 2022 12:44:02 GMT -5 loira said:

Agree that this study seems to completely ignore/disregard other cultural norms. I only spent one year working in South Korea, but I cannot imagine Korean men shouting over each other in a professional setting or enjoying having no clear leadership.

It's interesting to hear you frame it that way.  And I know I was doing it too...but are they shouting over each other?  Is interrupting necessarily a negative? 
I'm picturing like really lively brainstorming sessions where people are jumping in to add to and embellish on other people's ideas.  there's not usually a clear leader in a setting like that, and there is usually a ton of interrupting as people just blurt out whatever pops in their heads. 

I know my conversations with my sister sound RIDICULOUS to other people because we're constantly jumping into each other's sentences.  in that situation it's not aggressive interrupting at all, and is actually a sign that we're communicating really efficiently and effectively.

ETA: though it's funny you mention Korea specifically, since one of the study authors is at Korea University.  But when I clicked through to the abstract, the study participants are from a "midatlantic university" - so I'm assuming either hopkins or CMU since that's where three of the other authors are at.

The idea of interrupting being "negative" is definitely rooted in cultural norms, and I learned in recent years of a more local norm - the military. Our marketing department sounds like you and your sister. It is primarily cisgender hetero white women who are enthusiastic and talk over each other all the time. They mean that with positive intent and no disrespect, and when they finish each others' sentences, they consider it vibing well with each other.

We had a veteran cisgender white hetero male join the team. He could not believe how disrespectful the meetings were. In his mind, a meeting had a clear agenda, was led from the top down, and people requested permission to speak before talking. You didn't interrupt someone until they finished speaking. You definitely never talked over people. He had a major culture shock coming into his first civilian job from his military experience. Now, I don't remember what branch he was in and I know lots of vets who have a much more relaxed structure in their military experience, but his cultural norm was much more structured, rigid communication patterns to demonstrate respect. It took a lot of coaching for him to reframe his perspective and get comfortable working in that department, as well as some coaching and awareness for them on being more inclusive of him. We wouldn't have even known that was an issue for him except he brought it up in a session where we were exploring a Veteran ERG group and he shared what he would want in terms of support in working at our company.

[ssmjlm]

Ironically, the people that I work with that are the worst communicators are the female peers I deal with. They regularly interrupt and not for good reason. It’s all ver competitive feeling, which is ironic because they are not well liked or respected by their supervisors.

My biggest issue in my field is the workers are heavily female, but leaders male. Some is because it’s military, some civilian. The leaders are very focused on making their “mark” and decisions are made in their small world/vacuum. They don’t stop to think about second and third effects. It’s exhausting and one reason I’m looking to get out of my particular command.

[goldengirlz]

Jul 6, 2022 12:44:02 GMT -5 loira said:

Agree that this study seems to completely ignore/disregard other cultural norms. I only spent one year working in South Korea, but I cannot imagine Korean men shouting over each other in a professional setting or enjoying having no clear leadership.

There’s a book that does a nice job talking about different communication styles around the world; it’s called The Culture Map, and it’s specifically meant for business people. And each chapter focuses on different settings: giving feedback, leading meetings, disagreeing, etc.

I work on a global team and I understood my coworkers so much more after reading it. If I remember correctly, Asian countries tend to be on one end of the hierarchical spectrum, while Northern European/Nordic countries tend to be on the other end, where it would be possible to observe an entire meeting there and not know who the boss is. It was a super interesting read.