@@ August Covid

[fortnightlily]

Aug 7, 2022 8:29:57 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Also, teachers and childcare workers died in greater numbers than any other profession during that first year, but no one here gives a shit anymore that this was the reason school districts closed down for so long, it wasn't because of the kids. But yeah, good luck to us all now that we've driven away or killed a giant chunk of qualified teachers - www.chalkbeat.org/2022/6/6/23157103/child-care-workers-teachers-covid-fatality-death-rates

That article says that childcare workers had higher fatality rates than other professions, but that infection rates were not higher so there are many factors at play.

And says "Pre-kindergarten through 12th grade teachers, on the other hand, had somewhat lower mortality rates than the typical worker".

In my area schools closed mid-March 2020 and didn't reopen for a year after vaccines were available and teachers were prioritized in getting them. Where I live teacher illness and deaths were not at all the reasons schools closed. Teacher unions protesting returning were, however, a reason they didn't reopen sooner. Including my son's own first grade teacher testifying to the school board that as a parent her own children were enjoying virtual just fine so why rush to reopen while disingenuously failing to mention that she was also a teacher with a vested interest in continuing to work from home.

I think teachers absolutely should've been vaccinated first, been granted alternative arrangements if they were high risk or or had a high risk household member, been given a room with improved ventilation, been given extra PTO for quarantines, been supplied PPE for free, etc. And in my district, all of that happened. Plus a mask mandate. The idea that asking teachers to teach in person at all, even with mitigations, is inherently being dismissive of their safety?

And I can tell you that a lot of the attrition we've had is as much to do with the stress of having had to try to teach the hybrid model and the absolute shitshow of behavioral issues we saw this past year once kids returned to in person from having gone a year without. It's not because they are afraid of catching the virus this Fall.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I feel for immunocompromised kids and adults having to navigate this as most people have admittedly moved on.

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rearview mirror, too. ☹️ 

[pixy0stix]

Aug 7, 2022 9:02:38 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Aug 7, 2022 8:29:57 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Also, teachers and childcare workers died in greater numbers than any other profession during that first year, but no one here gives a shit anymore that this was the reason school districts closed down for so long, it wasn't because of the kids. But yeah, good luck to us all now that we've driven away or killed a giant chunk of qualified teachers - www.chalkbeat.org/2022/6/6/23157103/child-care-workers-teachers-covid-fatality-death-rates

That article says that childcare workers had higher fatality rates than other professions, but that infection rates were not higher so there are many factors at play.

And says "Pre-kindergarten through 12th grade teachers, on the other hand, had somewhat lower mortality rates than the typical worker".

Oh yes, those pesky underlying conditions that no one knew they had until they got covid and killed them. Tsk, they should have planned better.

Also, the entire point is that there were very good reasons to delay the start of in person teaching, but we're doing revisionist history here and have moved to blaming the teachers. So fun. This will help keep the remaining teachers. ::thumbs up::

[abs]

To be clear I think closing schools in March 2020 was the right call. There was just so much we didn’t know and all we had was masks and distancing. I don’t think there is any debate there.

There are downsides to masks though. There are downsides to distancing. We will be dealing with the fallout from that for a long time. I’m watching it unfold in my own child. I think it’s important to talk about without being brushed as anti science. In 2022 the equation has changed. I thought that was the discussion.

[fortnightlily]

Aug 7, 2022 9:11:40 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:02:38 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

That article says that childcare workers had higher fatality rates than other professions, but that infection rates were not higher so there are many factors at play.

And says "Pre-kindergarten through 12th grade teachers, on the other hand, had somewhat lower mortality rates than the typical worker".

Oh yes, those pesky underlying conditions that no one knew they had until they got covid and killed them. Tsk, they should have planned better.

Also, the entire point is that there were very good reasons to delay the start of in person teaching, but we're doing revisionist history here and have moved to blaming the teachers. So fun. This will help keep the remaining teachers. ::thumbs up::

I really don't think anyone is trying to relitigate the past other than to examine what lessons learned on past mitigations should inform future ones. And highlighting the reasons a lot of parents don't want to see a return to lockdowns or mask mandates (in places where those were real, and lengthy). And don't like to be accused of acting like "the pandemic is over" or that they don't care about their communities just because they think that accepting that Covid is here to stay and we have vaccines and treatments means a mindset shift toward "living with the virus" that may mean making different calculuses on a personal and a public health level than before.

[macmars45]

Aug 7, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 7, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I feel for immunocompromised kids and adults having to navigate this as most people have admittedly moved on.

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rear view mirror, too. ☹️ 

Same. It must be nice to be able to move on. I hope I don't get a THIRD life long disability because other people decided the pandemic was over. It's not their problem because I can just stay home forever to avoid that. /s

All I want is good ventilation in every building, universal masking when covid numbers go up and easy access to treatments available. Don't @ me about those. My community has 0 of those things.

ETA: lockdowns (such as they were) and mask mandates are never coming back so anyone worried about that needs to calm down. I know very few people IRL who are actually following covid numbers and masking up again indoors when numbers start trending up in their city.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 7, 2022 9:30:39 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:11:40 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oh yes, those pesky underlying conditions that no one knew they had until they got covid and killed them. Tsk, they should have planned better.

Also, the entire point is that there were very good reasons to delay the start of in person teaching, but we're doing revisionist history here and have moved to blaming the teachers. So fun. This will help keep the remaining teachers. ::thumbs up::

I really don't think anyone is trying to relitigate the past other than to examine what lessons learned on past mitigations should inform future ones. And highlighting the reasons a lot of parents don't want to see a return to lockdowns or mask mandates (in places where those were real, and lengthy). And don't like to be accused of acting like "the pandemic is over" or that they don't care about their communities just because they think that accepting that Covid is here to stay and we have vaccines and treatments means a mindset shift toward "living with the virus" that may mean making different calculuses on a personal and a public health level than before.

I'm sorry, did you not read the, "When are we going to talk about the fact that covid didn't touch kids and teachers should have kept throwing themselves on the fire!" post? C'mon now.

Also, covid and mitigation procedures are actually still driving teacher resignation. As much as parents don't want to admit that it's true - www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/survey-alarming-number-educators-may-soon-leave-profession

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 7, 2022 9:30:26 GMT -5 abs said:

To be clear I think closing schools in March 2020 was the right call. There was just so much we didn’t know and all we had was masks and distancing. I don’t think there is any debate there.

There are downsides to masks though. There are downsides to distancing. We will be dealing with the fallout from that for a long time. I’m watching it unfold in my own child. I think it’s important to talk about without being brushed as anti science. In 2022 the equation has changed. I thought that was the discussion.

This absolutely should be discussed. And I know personally I’ve really felt for families that struggled, most notably families with kids with special needs. I remember in fall of 2020, even though my kids were able to go to school in person by then, I was advocating locally for kids with special needs to be able to go in every day versus hybrid learning even if it meant my elementary school kid at the time would have to do more virtual learning. It didn’t happen, and we absolutely will deal with the consequences of that learning and developmental loss for a long time.

I admit I am skeptical of the group in the OP article. Not for nothing, but the loudest people in those groups are white parents. Around here, black and brown parents overwhelmingly kept their kids home for most of the 2020-21 even though they could have sent their kids for hybrid learning in the fall. Of course they understand there have been consequences to that choice, but I don’t see these families advocating for their needs. And they had to make a choice among shitty choices because who was dying most during the first year of the pandemic? The trauma of overwhelmed hospitals in this city and all those makeshift morgues we needed hit us all, but was especially significant for the families actually impacted. The threat of severe illness and death were very real for families of color. And those parents aren’t the ones trying to make polio in NY great again either like these other parents are doing.

Of course we shouldn’t be lumping people who are concerned about learning loss but didn’t fall down crazy rabbit holes with those who did. But clearly our collective memories are short when we can’t remember why choices had to be made in the first place.

[plutosmoon]

I said early on I personally needed to weigh mental health above physical health, but it was a tough decision. Those at high risk physically needed to make different decisions, but being at risk mentally and emotionally was not given much weight during this and in my opinion is equally important. I'm a single parent of a child with autism, closing schools and child care was devastating for us. For those with NT kids, or kids without special needs, I cannot explain to you what it is like to watch years of progress melt away so quickly without support, I am fortunate my child rebounded, but not every kid did, or ever will. I understood why schools were closed as teachers were really at risk, and I do not blame them or question the decisions made, problem was kids had to go somewhere. So off to remote learning centers these kids went to be supervised by likely underpaid child care workers. At my DD's center there were kids from 3 elementary schools and 6 grades, so much for cohorting, we actually increased the risk of spread with these models. I don't know what the right answers were though, so I'm not going to question the decisions made at the height of it all, but I can look back and know it very much sucked and a lot was lost and there is an urgency to regain what was lost.

My region is overwhelmingly employed in service areas and health care, I know very few local people outside my own office that had the option to work from home. Even my own employer (a college) had a large contingent that couldn't be home. Buildings had to be maintained, students that had no where else to go and remained on campus had to be fed. This pandemic very much shifted the majority of risk onto our lowest paid workers, most of whom lack sick time and quality health insurance. Those are the issues we need to address and discuss going forward, not rehash the decisions made. My exh may be an ass on many levels, but he went to work everyday during the entire pandemic at walmart where he makes less than $13/hour to shop for other people's groceries.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 6, 2022 9:28:56 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

I am afraid of a lot of things, and covid is low on that list.

Learning loss is also real. The us vs. them mentality of moms needs to end.

That first part is going to sit with me for a very long time, because I feel it directly establishes an us vs. them that you’d like to avoid, and because it inflicts a harm that you hopefully don’t intend. Also, fears of Covid are and have always been an honest conversation. 

How do you measure learning loss, though? The standards we measure are arbitrary and fictional; the tools we use to measure learning are racist and classist. Schools could wildly reimagine so much, but instead seek a return to a status quo that really wasn’t serving students or providing an equitable education. This pandemic has traumatized everyone, no question, but I don’t think its trauma can be best summarized as learning loss. 

The greatest learning loss was incurred by the kids who lost family members to Covid. 

[rubytue]

Aug 7, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 7, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I feel for immunocompromised kids and adults having to navigate this as most people have admittedly moved on.

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rearview mirror, too. ☹️ 

Ditto NewOrleans. Erased, dismissed, etc. I’m so sick of the “we need to get back to normal and life our lives, except you. You need to stay home. This activity I want to do is too risky for you.” Not from this board, but in life. It’s like the loud people in society want to regress back to the times when disabled, vulnerable, etc people were just locked away so as not to incovienence others. 

And personally, I feel like I understand both sides of the argument. Possibly because basically 45 years of my life were “normal”. And I had to come to terms with my invisible disabilities during the pandemic, and one of those is a disabled immune system. 

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 9:46:45 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:30:26 GMT -5 abs said:

To be clear I think closing schools in March 2020 was the right call. There was just so much we didn’t know and all we had was masks and distancing. I don’t think there is any debate there.

There are downsides to masks though. There are downsides to distancing. We will be dealing with the fallout from that for a long time. I’m watching it unfold in my own child. I think it’s important to talk about without being brushed as anti science. In 2022 the equation has changed. I thought that was the discussion.

I admit I am skeptical of the group in the OP article. Not for nothing, but the loudest people in those groups are white parents. Around here, black and brown parents overwhelmingly kept their kids home for most of the 2020-21 even though they could have sent their kids for hybrid learning in the fall. Of course they understand there have been consequences to that choice, but I don’t see these families advocating for their needs. And they had to make a choice among shitty choices because who was dying most during the first year of the pandemic? The trauma of overwhelmed hospitals in this city and all those makeshift morgues we needed hit us all, but was especially significant for the families actually impacted. The threat of severe illness and death were very real for families of color. And those parents aren’t the ones trying to make polio in NY great again either like these other parents are doing.

Of course we shouldn’t be lumping people who are concerned about learning loss but didn’t fall down crazy rabbit holes with those who did. But clearly our collective memories are short when we can’t remember why choices had to be made in the first place.

I don’t see those families concerned about the learning losses of suspension, racism, tracking, un-airconditioned buildings, test prep, limited electives, STEM all the things education, unmet special education services, lack of school libraries, censorship, the gaps in teacher prep programs… 

[mskitkat]

Aug 7, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 7, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I feel for immunocompromised kids and adults having to navigate this as most people have admittedly moved on.

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rearview mirror, too. ☹️ 

Yep. I’m still over here balancing needing to go to the gym to manage my condition vs zero covid reduction measures at my gym. Not even increased ventilation. So glad other people don’t have to fear covid, but those of us that have an extremely good reason to are left to flounder now.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 10:05:53 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rearview mirror, too. ☹️ 

Ditto NewOrleans . Erased, dismissed, etc. I’m so sick of the “we need to get back to normal and life our lives, except you. You need to stay home. This activity I want to do is too risky for you.” Not from this board, but in life. It’s like the loud people in society want to regress back to the times when disabled, vulnerable, etc people were just locked away so as not to incovienence others. 

In society at large, yes, the “well then you just stay home but I’m gonna live my life” is a pretty common and gross sentiment.  On this board (vaccine / cruise assholery aside), it’s way more subtle.  It feels more like “I’m sorry you experience that.” Then later, “But.”  

[rubytue]

Can we just stop with painting thing with a brush of Covid FEAR? Fear is an irrational emotion. Fear was 2020. We now have rational mitagation strategies and treatments, and I think most people aren’t acting out of fear anymore. But of well informed, rational thoughts. 

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 9:50:53 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

t I can look back and know it very much sucked and a lot was lost and there is an urgency to regain what was lost.

I didn’t want to quote your family’s personal details. Did your child’s school not open at all, even for students with disabilities?  My kids’ schools were open 20-21, but some neighboring districts stayed remote for a while except for students with disabilities and English learners who were always in person.

That’s another huge thing I always need to better remember when talking with people: everyone’s experience with school closure was so radically different due to local control.  It feels like we all lived in different countries.  

I hope that a recovery plan has been enacted for your child’s services.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 10:20:46 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I am not immunocompromised, but I do have medical conditions that make me high risk. I want to thank you for this because most of the time I feel erased.  I would like to put the pandemic in my rearview mirror, too. ☹️ 

Yep. I’m still over here balancing needing to go to the gym to manage my condition vs zero covid reduction measures at my gym. Not even increased ventilation. So glad other people don’t have to fear covid, but those of us that have an extremely good reason to are left to flounder now.

A lot of the mental health breakdown I had in 2020-2021 was the exhaustion and decision fatigue of this constant mental math.  ☹️  And so much of it involves having to say no to my kids, so there is an extra element of guilt in it.

Clean air in schools is a point of rage for me.
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/19/schools-race-improve-indoor-air-quality-coronavirus-cases-climb/

[plutosmoon]

Aug 7, 2022 10:39:54 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:50:53 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

t I can look back and know it very much sucked and a lot was lost and there is an urgency to regain what was lost.

I didn’t want to quote your family’s personal details. Did your child’s school not open at all, even for students with disabilities?  My kids’ schools were open 20-21, but some neighboring districts stayed remote for a while except for students with disabilities and English learners who were always in person.

That’s another huge thing I always need to better remember when talking with people: everyone’s experience with school closure was so radically different due to local control.  It feels like we all lived in different countries.  

I hope that a recovery plan has been enacted for your child’s services.

Our school was started on a hybrid model in 20-21, she went 2 days a week, her disabilities weren't deemed severe enough to go 4 days a week everyone was remote on Wednesdays. Some kids did go 4 days a week. I live in a rural city with high poverty, and all the schools in my district are title 1, if every kid on an IEP or with behavioral issues went the full 4 days we may a well have just been in person fully. When cases spiked in November we were fully remote from November to February, no one was in person, DD attended her aftercare for remote learning, a true godsend for us. We used a positivity rate of 15 surrounding towns, problem was the average wasn't weighted at first so when a tiny neighboring town had 1 case and 2 tests, that 50% positivity rate spiked the average. We were able to return 2 days a week shortly after they began weighing the average and went back 5 days a week in April 2021 only because of the state mandate. Her main issue is social interaction and intensity, so it was really the March-July 2020 where we had the biggest regression issues, once she was able to start going somewhere in person, she rebounded and is mostly back to where she should be, but not all kids recovered so well.

[mskitkat]

Aug 7, 2022 10:47:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 7, 2022 10:20:46 GMT -5 mskitkat said:

Yep. I’m still over here balancing needing to go to the gym to manage my condition vs zero covid reduction measures at my gym. Not even increased ventilation. So glad other people don’t have to fear covid, but those of us that have an extremely good reason to are left to flounder now.

A lot of the mental health breakdown I had in 2020-2021 was the exhaustion and decision fatigue of this constant mental math.  ☹️  And so much of it involves having to say no to my kids, so there is an extra element of guilt in it.

Clean air in schools is a point of rage for me.
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/19/schools-race-improve-indoor-air-quality-coronavirus-cases-climb/

Yep. Do I force my 1st grader to be the only person in the school wearing a mask? Would that even do any good? Do I continue to tell her no, she can’t do gymnastics until she’s been out so long she can’t restart? Do I just throw my arms in the air and cross my fingers that the next round of covid doesn’t leave me permanently disabled? I got lucky that round one only made my tinnitus worse.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 9:02:38 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Aug 7, 2022 8:29:57 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Also, teachers and childcare workers died in greater numbers than any other profession during that first year, but no one here gives a shit anymore that this was the reason school districts closed down for so long, it wasn't because of the kids. But yeah, good luck to us all now that we've driven away or killed a giant chunk of qualified teachers - www.chalkbeat.org/2022/6/6/23157103/child-care-workers-teachers-covid-fatality-death-rates

That article says that childcare workers had higher fatality rates than other professions, but that infection rates were not higher so there are many factors at play.

And says "Pre-kindergarten through 12th grade teachers, on the other hand, had somewhat lower mortality rates than the typical worker".

In my area schools closed mid-March 2020 and didn't reopen for a year after vaccines were available and teachers were prioritized in getting them. Where I live teacher illness and deaths were not at all the reasons schools closed. Teacher unions protesting returning were, however, a reason they didn't reopen sooner. Including my son's own first grade teacher testifying to the school board that as a parent her own children were enjoying virtual just fine so why rush to reopen while disingenuously failing to mention that she was also a teacher with a vested interest in continuing to work from home.

I think teachers absolutely should've been vaccinated first, been granted alternative arrangements if they were high risk or or had a high risk household member, been given a room with improved ventilation, been given extra PTO for quarantines, been supplied PPE for free, etc. And in my district, all of that happened. Plus a mask mandate. The idea that asking teachers to teach in person at all, even with mitigations, is inherently being dismissive of their safety?

And I can tell you that a lot of the attrition we've had is as much to do with the stress of having had to try to teach the hybrid model and the absolute shitshow of behavioral issues we saw this past year once kids returned to in person from having gone a year without. It's not because they are afraid of catching the virus this Fall.

Re the bolded, the article attributes that contrast to virtual scenarios, so it ultimately suggests that school closure spared educators. 

I’m so glad to hear your school had sensible mitigations which unfortunately were not the norm.  It sounds like a good place to be.  

Re: Attrition and teacher shortage.  That’s a hard one to pin down because it’s been years in the making.  Fewer students were entering education in the first place (due to pay and prestige).  Data showed a mass quitting in 2020 but not in 2021.  I don’t know if we’ve seen data on 2022 yet.  Certainly the stress of what you said would be a contributing factor, but there are so many other ugly issues: the vicious attacks and slanders, the bans, the lack of protection from their administration against them, the regular stress which was always the top reason they were quitting pre-pandemic, the money.  The perception their union is evil. 

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 7, 2022 10:27:58 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Can we just stop with painting thing with a brush of Covid FEAR? Fear is an irrational emotion. Fear was 2020. We now have rational mitagation strategies and treatments, and I think most people aren’t acting out of fear anymore. But of well informed, rational thoughts. 

And the word is being weaponized by the very people in the OP, including the elected officials that are catering to their every want. I saw DeSantis saying he wasn’t going to declare a state of emergency in Florida for monkeypox because he’s tired of “fear” and used that word about a million times in his speech. My state is in a state of emergency for monkeypox but it’s not like that means we are on lockdown. But, DeSantis knows that but all he cares about solidifying his base for 2024. Never mind that monkeypox is spreading in his state too.

[sonrisa]

My kids will mask. They have been masking at camps all summer, whether required or optional. When the mandate dropped, the cases rose. We’ve seen repeated examples where covid ran through their class or camp and they were among the few who didn’t get it, so the masks we are using seem to work.

We’ve had one case in the family and could clearly trace it back to a specific out of school play date exposure when the kids were unmasked.

We don’t do things indoors with others without masks and it works for us. The school lunch tables have always been outside and the restaurants we go to have outdoor tables, so indoor eating isn’t a thing for us anymore.

We aren’t living in fear and we are living our lives normally - masks and outdoor eating are that new normal - consistent, simple precautions.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 10:59:56 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

Aug 7, 2022 10:39:54 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I didn’t want to quote your family’s personal details. Did your child’s school not open at all, even for students with disabilities?  My kids’ schools were open 20-21, but some neighboring districts stayed remote for a while except for students with disabilities and English learners who were always in person.

That’s another huge thing I always need to better remember when talking with people: everyone’s experience with school closure was so radically different due to local control.  It feels like we all lived in different countries.  

I hope that a recovery plan has been enacted for your child’s services.

Our school was started on a hybrid model in 20-21, she went 2 days a week, her disabilities weren't deemed severe enough to go 4 days a week everyone was remote on Wednesdays. 

This is the unjust systemic bullshit, the “regularly scheduled” learning loss that I loathe about the institution of education.  I can’t imagine how enraging this must be to hear.

[erbear]

I’m not sure if I can ever adequately convey how freaking difficult being a teacher during this pandemic has been. I know there are people (even on here) who think we’re whiny babies and always have been, but this has been the absolute most difficult thing I have ever done. Nothing about teaching is fun right now. It’s is impossible to teach 8th graders in a mask all day because they simply don’t hear you. We spent hours telling kids to “mask over your nose, please” and “give a little space”. I spent more time the last two years one on one with students who were anxious, depressed and just emotionally overwhelmed. It was exhausting.

I’d love to see things go back to “normal”. I’m not sure I’ll be a teacher in two years if this continues, and from the data, you will see I’m not alone. And I don’t know what the solution is — masking is hard for kids and teachers. Masking keeps people safe. There is no good answer and seemingly no end in sight.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 7, 2022 9:30:39 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Aug 7, 2022 9:11:40 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oh yes, those pesky underlying conditions that no one knew they had until they got covid and killed them. Tsk, they should have planned better.

Also, the entire point is that there were very good reasons to delay the start of in person teaching, but we're doing revisionist history here and have moved to blaming the teachers. So fun. This will help keep the remaining teachers. ::thumbs up::

accepting that Covid is here to stay and we have vaccines and treatments means a mindset shift toward "living with the virus" that may mean making different calculuses on a personal and a public health level than before.

This is not at all what direct statements of  “we’ve moved on” sound like or convey.   

[fortnightlily]

What does protecting the vulnerable, forward from this point in time, practically speaking, actually look like? What are the sensible measures that don't force more businesses into closure, or detriment mental health?

I would absolutely like to see more money invested in indoor air quality, but that's still not a panacea. Some UV air cleaner in the vent is not necessarily gonna spare you from someone shedding virus next to you for an hour, and you can put several Corsi-Rosenthal boxes in a classroom or a restaurant but no one will be able to hear each other talk.

Practical: normalizing masking in healthcare settings and public transit, or when you are symptomatic with a respiratory illness but not stay-home level sick. Having grocery or big box stores offer certain dedicated days or hours where masks are required and crowds restricted. Also making it easier for people to reschedule travel without incurring enormous hassle and cost. And easier for sick people to stay home from work.

Not practical: Requiring or expecting someone with a cough or cold symptoms but no fever who feels fine to not leave their house for 10 days. Requiring people with no signs of illness to wear a mask in all public settings at all times, especially for several consecutive hours. Expecting people to avoid indoor social gatherings or travel for the indefinite future until Covid disappears.

[karinothing]

DS2 has a fever. He is napping. I haven't tested him. We just all had covid in June and then the kids were boosted. If it's covid again (which would be the 3rd time) I may have a breakdown. We are supposed to leave for Maine next Sat.

[NewOrleans]

Aug 6, 2022 10:51:19 GMT -5 akayf said:

I’m crushed. 3 out 4 of us tested positive on Tuesday. My 14 year old was negative. He had pre band camp this week but stayed home. Band director said it’s in the house so just stay home this week. Band camp starts Monday. As long as he remained negative, he was going on Monday and I would just test him daily before sending him.

Well, he woke up this morning with a stuffy nose and his positive result popped up before I even had a chance to set the timer. He tried to isolate from us as much as possible but it was inevitable.

He’s in tears. I’m in tears. This sucks so much.

I’m sorry. I know how much kids love band camp.  This pandemic destroys everything.

[rubytue]

Aug 7, 2022 11:16:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 7, 2022 10:27:58 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Can we just stop with painting thing with a brush of Covid FEAR? Fear is an irrational emotion. Fear was 2020. We now have rational mitagation strategies and treatments, and I think most people aren’t acting out of fear anymore. But of well informed, rational thoughts. 

And the word is being weaponized by the very people in the OP, including the elected officials that are catering to their every want. I saw DeSantis saying he wasn’t going to declare a state of emergency in Florida for monkeypox because he’s tired of “fear” and used that word about a million times in his speech. My state is in a state of emergency for monkeypox but it’s not like that means we are on lockdown. But, DeSantis knows that but all he cares about solidifying his base for 2024. Never mind that monkeypox is spreading in his state too.

Exactly! I feel that it’s been weaponized so much that even using it casually is tainted. 

But I do think often about how those that accuse people still wearing masks of living in fear are also probably carrying a gun for “protection.” 

[pixy0stix]

Aug 7, 2022 12:20:05 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

What does protecting the vulnerable, forward from this point in time, practically speaking, actually look like? What are the sensible measures that don't force more businesses into closure, or detriment mental health?

I would absolutely like to see more money invested in indoor air quality, but that's still not a panacea. Some UV air cleaner in the vent is not necessarily gonna spare you from someone shedding virus next to you for an hour, and you can put several Corsi-Rosenthal boxes in a classroom or a restaurant but no one will be able to hear each other talk.

Practical: normalizing masking in healthcare settings and public transit, or when you are symptomatic with a respiratory illness but not stay-home level sick. Having grocery or big box stores offer certain dedicated days or hours where masks are required and crowds restricted. Also making it easier for people to reschedule travel without incurring enormous hassle and cost. And easier for sick people to stay home from work.

Not practical: Requiring or expecting someone with a cough or cold symptoms but no fever who feels fine to not leave their house for 10 days. Requiring people with no signs of illness to wear a mask in all public settings at all times, especially for several consecutive hours. Expecting people to avoid indoor social gatherings or travel for the indefinite future until Covid disappears.

How about ask and listen to the teachers? Cause right now everyone is telling the teachers what is practical or not, and that shit ain't flying. I really really don't think people understand that we're at the edge of a precipice. Schools are hanging by a thread. It's not going to take much to shove the entire thing into chaos.