Pelosi's visit to Taiwan

[Velar Fricative]

Any thoughts on this?

www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/pelosi-expected-arrive-taiwan-tuesday-sources-say-2022-08-02/

I understand she can visit wherever she wants but I just don't like the timing of this visit at all. It's basically a matter of when not if China goes all out to take Taiwan "back" and even if they've been weakened by covid and such, I'd want us to support Taiwan if things turn to shit but we're already involved a long road ahead in Ukraine and I would have just preferred we not try to poke the bear in the East. Hopefully the visit goes relatively smoothly for us (and Taiwan).  

[isabel]

It feels stupid to me. Why now? Is there not enough chaos in the world? And the media is definitely making it sound like she's an idiot for going, which isn't a great look in general.

[basilosaurus]

It's not just Taiwan. She's visiting (maybe pasy tense by now) other countries in Asia. Singapore, malaysia, rok, Japan, and I think Thailand. I presume this is to shore up support from regional allies.

Yes, it's a matter of when not if china will make a move. And it would behoove then to do so while the world is distracted by Ukraine, so I think the sooner the better for talks with regional allies because china isn't going to wait until Ukraine is resolved. Sure it would be nice not to be invited in yet another conflict in yet another region, but I don't see that as being an option.

Ahead of pelosis arrival in Taiwan, china paraded tanks in a beach with people sunning and bathing. It was a strange flex.
www.freepressjournal.in/viral/chinese-army-tanks-head-to-fujian-beach-ahead-of-nancy-pelosis-taiwan-visit-video-goes-viral-on-wechat

[Bad Dingo]

I think not going to Taiwan would have made a huge statement that we weren't going to support them.

I haven't seen the negative articles, but frankly some (many) journalists miss Trump and the drama and seem to go out of their way to criticize everything the Democrats do.

If there is one thing Pelosi is not, it's stupid.

[Pom]

I have to share this...I was just watching the RFD TV news (against my better judgement) with my sister.

The commentator is talking to a grain market expert and they are chatting about how the markets dipped yesterday when Pelosi was landing in Taiwan. Of course this is a conservative commentator and it is obvious he is wanting to rile up the viewership with some anti Pelosi chitchat. The expert comes back and says and I am paraphrasing since I wasn't typing at the time: "I think it's just a reactionary market blip and I don't see China reacting in a way and damaging our trade relationship in the way that it did when Trump damaged the markets with a trade war in 2018 and 2019."

You could tell this was NOT the response the commentator expected. Subject changed. Lol.

[sonrisa]

A major political figure should not be traveling to a diplomatically sensitive region without the sign off of the state department. Full stop. I would expect it from some republicans who are full tilt trying to burn down our country. Nancy should know better.

[pugz]

does speaker of the house usually do visits like this? I assume it would be TOO big of a statement to send someone higher up or in the cabinet?

[Bad Dingo]

"With regard to Taiwan, first, the Speaker will make her own decisions about whether or not to visit Taiwan. Congress is an independent, coequal branch of government. The decision is entirely the Speaker’s. What I can say is this: this is very much precedent in the sense that previous speakers visited Taiwan. Many members of Congress go to Taiwan, including this year. And so if the Speaker does decide to visit, and China tries to create some kind of crisis or otherwise escalate tensions, that would be entirely on Beijing. We are looking for them, in the event she decides to visit, to act responsibly and not to engage in any escalation going forward." Secretary Blinken


www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-at-a-press-availability-23/

Pelosi's Op Ed in WaPo:

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/02/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-visit-op-ed/

Defending democracy seems like the opposite of trying to burn America to the ground.  Some of the criticisms I'm reading seem very "America First" to me.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 3, 2022 10:07:30 GMT -5 pugz said:

does speaker of the house usually do visits like this? I assume it would be TOO big of a statement to send someone higher up or in the cabinet?

Last time was in 1997 when Newt visited Taiwan.

Cabinet would be under Biden and they weren't pleased with the idea, but Pelosi not being part of the executive branch means she does get to make that choice. I'm really hawkish on the Chinese government these days but I still think this wasn't anything close to ideal timing.

[Bad Dingo]

Aug 3, 2022 10:07:30 GMT -5 pugz said:

does speaker of the house usually do visits like this? I assume it would be TOO big of a statement to send someone higher up or in the cabinet?

I believe that prior to Trump signing the Taiwan Travel Act, Cabinet level and higher were not allowed to visit Taiwan per the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act.

[sonrisa]

Aug 3, 2022 10:21:31 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

but Pelosi not being part of the executive branch means she does get to make that choice..

from an internal perspective, that can be true. But whenever one branch of the government undermines another on foreign policy it weakens us a nation and makes all of our diplomacy harder.

She shouldn’t have done it.

This wasn’t the way to flex the ‘coequal branch’ powers of congress. (And if we are taking about coequal branches, then it would really need to be an act on behalf of all of. the congress and Senate supported by that branch. It would be very diplomatically messy but at least it would adhere to the spirit of coequality. That wasn’t what happened either).

[TR]

I’m really not well-versed or even medium-versed in international relations. If we support Taiwan being free then a visit seems like not a bad idea, but 25 GOP senators, including McConnell, apparently wrote a letter in support of it so that makes me question my initial feelings. I know a broken clock is right twice a day and all, but it feels squicky to be on the same side as McConnell.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 3, 2022 11:39:13 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Aug 3, 2022 10:21:31 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

but Pelosi not being part of the executive branch means she does get to make that choice..

from an internal perspective, that can be true. But whenever one branch of the government undermines another on foreign policy it weakens us a nation and makes all of our diplomacy harder.

She shouldn’t have done it.

This wasn’t the way to flex the ‘coequal branch’ powers of congress. (And if we are taking about coequal branches, then it would really need to be an act on behalf of all of. the congress and Senate supported by that branch. It would be very diplomatically messy but at least it would adhere to the spirit of coequality. That wasn’t what happened either).

I don't disagree as I posted above, I'm just mentioning that technicality. 

[sonrisa]

Aug 3, 2022 11:43:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 3, 2022 11:39:13 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

from an internal perspective, that can be true. But whenever one branch of the government undermines another on foreign policy it weakens us a nation and makes all of our diplomacy harder.

She shouldn’t have done it.

This wasn’t the way to flex the ‘coequal branch’ powers of congress. (And if we are taking about coequal branches, then it would really need to be an act on behalf of all of. the congress and Senate supported by that branch. It would be very diplomatically messy but at least it would adhere to the spirit of coequality. That wasn’t what happened either).

I don't disagree as I posted above, I'm just mentioning that technicality. 

sorry - I’m not arguing with you. I’m arguing with Nancy and the ‘burn down the country if it spites the President’ republicans who support her.

[Bad Dingo]

Aug 3, 2022 11:39:37 GMT -5 TR said:

I’m really not well-versed or even medium-versed in international relations. If we support Taiwan being free then a visit seems like not a bad idea, but 25 GOP senators, including McConnell, apparently wrote a letter in support of it so that makes me question my initial feelings. I know a broken clock is right twice a day and all, but it feels squicky to be on the same side as McConnell.

It does feel very wrong! But Rs are very anti-China (and not because China isn't a democracy or because they are against China's human rights violations). Trump furthered relations with Taiwan and Biden has continued on that path. China has been escalating their control over Taiwan for years.

[wawa]

this might be an overly simplistic question, but like...is there a good time to piss of china?

[audette]

Pom

The grain markets may also have dipped because Ukraine was finally able to ship some grain out of Odessa earlier this week, which is otherwise blockaded by the Russian navy.

[Pom]

Aug 3, 2022 15:42:57 GMT -5 audette said:

Pom

The grain markets may also have dipped because Ukraine was finally able to ship some grain out of Odessa earlier this week, which is otherwise blockaded by the Russian navy.

Oh, I agree. The commentator specifically said that it happened as "Pelosi was landing in Taiwan" trying to get the guest to pile on that her visit would upset China.  It didn't end up that way and I was very amused.

I am very happy that grain is shipping out of Ukraine again. World markets with hungry nations need the supply.  

[whatnext]

For a number of reasons including Taiwan Stan Grants With the Falling of Dusk is a good read (Indigenous Australian Author who also was a foreign correspondent for CNN in China, Afghanistan and other locations)

www.goodreads.com/book/show/54882493-with-the-falling-of-the-dusk

It is only a mater of time before China goes in, they will not embarrass themselves to the west like they have in the past and when China do go in it will be over very quickly