Dept of Transportation Airline refund proposal

[fortnightlily]

Go Secretary Pete! This is a regulation that is open for a 90 day public comment period before it goes for a vote.

wapo.st/3zXoRwQ

"The new rules would require that airlines issue credits with no expiration date to ticket-holders who decide not to travel because they are sick or because of government restrictions on travel — including, for example, the imposition of a quarantine requirement for arriving passengers. In the case of airlines that receive future government bailouts, the rule would require them to issue refunds rather than credits."

[isabel]

I was not able to travel last week because my family member had a fever. We were on a "buy one, get one" type fare, so my flight was $500, but we each had a ticket. Frontier charged a $99 fee each way per person to cancel the flight. So my flight credit is $100. We'll get it back from our credit card company, but shit like that is such a fucking scam. I hope this actually goes somewhere.

[Deleted]

I wish there was a way for them to deal with the fudging of departure times when flights leave late. I looked at my watch as we left the gate three hours and two minutes late, but miraculously the time shows 2 hours and 58 minutes on the official notice. They owe compensation when they leave three hours or more late.

[rubytue]

This is a baby step, but man, when I hear what people get for canceled flights in the EU, it just reinforces how much the US has accepted corporations screwing us.

[Jalapeñomel]

We had a AA credit expiring in September from a canceled trip in April 2020. In order to change the ticket, Expedia said we had to contact AA directly, who proceeded to charge us $100 to use the credit. 🤬

[babsbunny]

I don't think airlines could implement figuring out if a person's reason for not traveling fit the second option, even within the US where a county or city could suddenly start testing and quarantining people on arrival (a logistical nightmare to keep up with changing policies). They would likely have to allow anyone to cancel any time for credits. Whether or not that is a good thing for consumers and the industry is a different conversation.

Even the first option, being sick, is abused if a person just has to claim it, or intrusive and a burden if the airlines ask for proof, like a doctor's note.

I like the idea of regulations (for example, gift cards never expire in some states) but I don't think this particular proposal works well.

[karinothing]

They need to extend this. If I cancel at all a set time period before 100% refundable. It can shrink and change to a credit at some point and maybe within a week there is a change fee EXCEPT with proof of illness or something. But seriously why the feck can't I just get my money back if I decides to cancel months in advance. It's stupid

[estrellita]

Without getting too detailed, I see disputes for airlines as part of my job. It frustrates me so much to see the terms and conditions they have. They're so complicated half the time. Last time I flew, I added insurance because I know it's unlikely to get an actual refund. I would be very happy if airlines would get better about this!

[wise_rita]

Aug 3, 2022 19:51:23 GMT -5 @rebeccawelton said:

I wish there was a way for them to deal with the fudging of departure times when flights leave late. I looked at my watch as we left the gate three hours and two minutes late, but miraculously the time shows 2 hours and 58 minutes on the official notice. They owe compensation when they leave three hours or more late.

What compensation is owed if they're 3+ hours late?

I've never heard of this in the USA before. Europe, yes, USA no.

[laurack]

I’ve started paying more just for the privilege of changing my flight if I need to due to illness. But I don’t want the ticket with seat selection, early boarding, checked bags etc. normally they bundle these things. I basically just want to be able to postpone if we are sick. So irritating.

Also what about them emailing you and saying hey we changed your flight and while you paid for direct now you have to stop over, doubling the journey time? I find this annoying too but in the USA we don’t seem to have any power to do anything.

[karinothing]

Aug 4, 2022 4:45:59 GMT -5 laurack said:

I’ve started paying more just for the privilege of changing my flight if I need to due to illness. But I don’t want the ticket with seat selection, early boarding, checked bags etc. normally they bundle these things. I basically just want to be able to postpone if we are sick. So irritating.

Also what about them emailing you and saying hey we changed your flight and while you paid for direct now you have to stop over, doubling the journey time? I find this annoying too but in the USA we don’t seem to have any power to do anything.

I have heard some insane stories on this. I read one story where a guy's flight was changed to a completely different island and the airline was like "well whatever, get yourself there on your own dime." I don't understand how airline can just do whatever.

[Deleted]

Aug 3, 2022 23:38:26 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Aug 3, 2022 19:51:23 GMT -5 @rebeccawelton said:

I wish there was a way for them to deal with the fudging of departure times when flights leave late. I looked at my watch as we left the gate three hours and two minutes late, but miraculously the time shows 2 hours and 58 minutes on the official notice. They owe compensation when they leave three hours or more late.

What compensation is owed if they're 3+ hours late?

I've never heard of this in the USA before. Europe, yes, USA no.

I don't know. I swear I thought it was in the US but maybe I was wrong. 

[gt7301b]

It has always seemed like the airlines were basically a giant Ponzi-scheme. If you need to make any changes in your flight they take your money, but they are allowed to make changes/modifications with impunity. Then whenever they have profits they do stock buy-backs and ask the government for bailouts when the economy has a down turn.

I recently booked a completely refundable flight and when I canceled it the airline gave me my money back as a credit and I had to submit a form to get my money back. I guess some people don't jump through the hoops and they just keep the money if you don't check.

[msmerymac]

Aug 3, 2022 19:44:16 GMT -5 isabel said:

I was not able to travel last week because my family member had a fever. We were on a "buy one, get one" type fare, so my flight was $500, but we each had a ticket. Frontier charged a $99 fee each way per person to cancel the flight. So my flight credit is $100. We'll get it back from our credit card company, but shit like that is such a fucking scam. I hope this actually goes somewhere.

I had to reschedule flights when my tour was postponed and the airline charged $400 per flight to reschedule, so I really only got like $200 in credit per flight and then only had like 60 days to use it. And my insurance denied my claim because tour cancelation wasn't a covered event. Granted, not a US airline, but hopefully this will spark systemic change. 

[rubytue]

Aug 4, 2022 5:28:33 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Aug 4, 2022 4:45:59 GMT -5 laurack said:

I’ve started paying more just for the privilege of changing my flight if I need to due to illness. But I don’t want the ticket with seat selection, early boarding, checked bags etc. normally they bundle these things. I basically just want to be able to postpone if we are sick. So irritating.

Also what about them emailing you and saying hey we changed your flight and while you paid for direct now you have to stop over, doubling the journey time? I find this annoying too but in the USA we don’t seem to have any power to do anything.

I have heard some insane stories on this. I read one story where a guy's flight was changed to a completely different island and the airline was like "well whatever, get yourself there on your own dime." I don't understand how airline can just do whatever.

Happens in the US, too, with cities that have multiple airports. Once had my flight home to BWI canceled and they rerouted me to Dulles, with “figure out your own way back to your car.” 

[wildrice]

I remember last year I booked a trip to Cancun flying Air Canada (which was goofy to begin with but it was the only affordable flight with times that worked). The flight ended up cancelled, and the airline tried to just issue us a credit. Um, no. I don't live in Canada or have any plans to fly there anytime soon, so what do I need a $1500 credit with them for? And I think it was supposed to be good for 12-18 months so it's not like I could have even just stored it for someday.

Thankfully I booked it through Chase travel so they managed to get me a refund. But wtf? I still wanted that flight but you were just going to hold my money hostage and make me also pay to book with an alternative airline?

[pixy0stix]

FAA is asking for public comment on airplane seat sizes - www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/08/03/2022-16565/request-for-comments-in-minimum-seat-dimensions-necessary-for-safety-of-air-passengers-emergency

[wise_rita]

Aug 4, 2022 8:26:36 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

It has always seemed like the airlines were basically a giant Ponzi-scheme. If you need to make any changes in your flight they take your money, but they are allowed to make changes/modifications with impunity. Then whenever they have profits they do stock buy-backs and ask the government for bailouts when the economy has a down turn.

GREAT Covid-era meme: Airlines say "we're all in this together" but I was in my own when my bag was 2 pounds overweight.

Truth!

[rubytue]

Aug 4, 2022 12:09:55 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

FAA is asking for public comment on airplane seat sizes - www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/08/03/2022-16565/request-for-comments-in-minimum-seat-dimensions-necessary-for-safety-of-air-passengers-emergency

I clicked on this one and read it in more detail.  Something to keep in mine about government language and writing (writing these things was my job for the past 12 years for my agency). This quote: “The FAA invites comments on minimum seat dimensions necessary for passenger safety, especially during airplane evacuation, as the FAA examines whether new regulatory standards are necessary,…”

Any comments are going to need to approach this from a safety angle.  Comfort is not what they are going for here. I could drill down to my hypothesis as to why (jurisdictional related would be my guess). But, the goal is safety, and anything not mentioning a safety effect may be considered out of scope. Just an FYI for anyone curious. 

[Poeticxpassion]

I used the customer of size policy on Southwest for our recent trip to Florida. There really isn't a solution for bigger airline seats because if you make them bigger, there is always a passenger who needs more room.

[BlondeSpiders]

Aug 4, 2022 14:01:17 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Aug 4, 2022 12:09:55 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

FAA is asking for public comment on airplane seat sizes - www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/08/03/2022-16565/request-for-comments-in-minimum-seat-dimensions-necessary-for-safety-of-air-passengers-emergency

I clicked on this one and read it in more detail.  Something to keep in mine about government language and writing (writing these things was my job for the past 12 years for my agency). This quote: “The FAA invites comments on minimum seat dimensions necessary for passenger safety, especially during airplane evacuation, as the FAA examines whether new regulatory standards are necessary,…”

Any comments are going to need to approach this from a safety angle.  Comfort is not what they are going for here. I could drill down to my hypothesis as to why (jurisdictional related would be my guess). But, the goal is safety, and anything not mentioning a safety effect may be considered out of scope. Just an FYI for anyone curious. 

What? Are you trying to tell me this isn't extremely safe and super comfortable?

[rubytue]

BlondeSpiders, 🤣🤣

More that it caught my eye, fluent in government-ese. I know how we write stuff to try to make out point, and how people miss the point we think we are making.