Iran

[wildrice]

My apologies for the lack of information here, but I keep seeing TikToks about protests in Iran and about women being killed. It sounds like this started with one woman being killed after refusing to wear a head covering (hijab? I'm not sure if it is called something different in Iran). 

The TikToks are all saying things like "spread the word" or "give us a voice". Has anyone heard anything more about this? I have not seen anything come across my usual news sources, but this board seemed like a good place to at least get the conversation started. 

[audette]

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62967381

Basically, the morality police in Iran arrested a young woman for not wearing her hijab _tightly enough_. And she ended up dead, a couple days later. Women are pissed, and at least some of the men around them are supporting them in their protest.

[RitzyHeifer]

audette gave a good link and summation, I heard about it on NPR Monday or Tuesday morning this week. Today I walked by a protest on our campus of mixed genders but predominantly students who appear middle eastern; many of the signs were in Arabic and their chants were in English (“Say her name! Mahsa Amini!”) They did a great job of placing themselves on campus to get media attention.

[madringal]

Sept 23, 2022 11:30:03 GMT -5 audette said:

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62967381

Basically, the morality police in Iran arrested a young woman for not wearing her hijab _tightly enough_. And she ended up dead, a couple days later. Women are pissed, and at least some of the men around them are supporting them in their protest.

Quote from this article:


Activists said a woman was among three protesters shot dead by security forces in Urmia, Piranshahr and Kermanshah.

My parents are from Urmia and left Iran in 1977. These kind of stories break my heart, and I just can't even imagine. These are also the examples I give when people ask if my family has ever been back. Ummm...no. It is not the kind of place you vacation to if you actually knew what it was like.  My parents left for a reason and there is just no reason to ever go back. God bless America.

[omgzombies]

They also shut down the internet in Iran a few days ago (no idea if it's back up yet), which is obviously not a great sign.

[fryjack2]

Sept 23, 2022 12:01:47 GMT -5 RitzyHeifer said:

audette gave a good link and summation, I heard about it on NPR Monday or Tuesday morning this week. Today I walked by a protest on our campus of mixed genders but predominantly students who appear middle eastern; many of the signs were in Arabic and their chants were in English (“Say her name! Mahsa Amini!”) They did a great job of placing themselves on campus to get media attention.

Are you sure they weren't in Farsi? They have a very similar alphabet.  I can read Farsi, but I don't understand the words ( I speak Arabic and can read and write Arabic as well). 

[RitzyHeifer]

Sept 23, 2022 18:41:33 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Sept 23, 2022 12:01:47 GMT -5 RitzyHeifer said:

audette gave a good link and summation, I heard about it on NPR Monday or Tuesday morning this week. Today I walked by a protest on our campus of mixed genders but predominantly students who appear middle eastern; many of the signs were in Arabic and their chants were in English (“Say her name! Mahsa Amini!”) They did a great job of placing themselves on campus to get media attention.

Are you sure they weren't in Farsi? They have a very similar alphabet.  I can read Farsi, but I don't understand the words ( I speak Arabic and can read and write Arabic as well). 

You are right, I apologize for my sweeping generalization that a language I could not read that “seemed” Arabic may have been Farsi.

I’m not well versed enough in either language to discern and when I was going to stop to speak to the group, the media was arriving so I got out of the way and didn’t engage further.

[fryjack2]

RitzyHeifer, no worries at all. Farsi words are written using the same Arabic alphabet. You wouldn’t know the difference unless you spoke one of those languages and could read the words and not understand them.

[Michelle]

As I continue to see tik tok videos of incredibly large protests in Iran, and killing and arrests of citizens, I can't help but speculate about why media is nearly silent on the issue.

No one is talking about it. Is it because:

- It's women's voices. periodt?
- It's seen as a lost cause because of how brutal the Iranian theocratic government is toward its own people if interfered with by the west?
- It would be a huge commitment we aren't willing to make to intervene because it would destabilize the region even more than interfering in Iraq did?
- Iran and Russia are allies? I mean, Armenia is also facing attacks from Azerbaijan and Armenia has been historically aligned with Russia... we aren't airing that either. But then Azerbaijan is being supplied by Russia with arms, according to what I've read.
- N. Korea is shooting missiles at Japan and we will prioritize military interference there before the middle east, due to our alliance with Japan and N. Korea's proximity to Alaska?
- Iran has Nuclear technology and we see too many possibilities of WWIII happening, with use of nukes against us this time?
- Something else I'm missing?


My heart is breaking for these Iranian women and I just don't understand why the world doesn't seem to care, even if only to advocate sympathy for them like was done with Ukraine.

[wildrice]

I don't know for sure, michelle, but it seems to me that American news sources just don't care to report on what happens in the middle east. Floods in Pakistan? No news. Afghan people struggling to have their basic needs met since the Taliban took over? Only know about that because John Oliver talked about it. Iran protests? Nothing except on TikTok from actual Iranian people. I'm sure it does tie into alliances and priorities for the US, but also the news should report NEWS, not just what our government wants us to focus on (IMO at least...)

It's not as though I am reading multiple newspapers back to back daily, but I follow several via social media (including the NYT and Washington Post, as well as some free ones like Huffington Post) and nothing ever shows up. Is this algorithms that aren't sending me this content, or is it just not being reported at all?

[pixy0stix]

Oct 5, 2022 10:54:50 GMT -5 wildrice said:

It's not as though I am reading multiple newspapers back to back daily, but I follow several via social media (including the NYT and Washington Post, as well as some free ones like Huffington Post) and nothing ever shows up. Is this algorithms that aren't sending me this content, or is it just not being reported at all?

I've been seeing this content on my social media from the sources you posted. I think it's important to remember that we're only shown what we've clicked on in the past, so it's also showing your own bias (not said accusingly at all).

[pixy0stix]

Like for me, on WaPo website, the 2nd featured article down is about Iran.

Tactics of repression: How Iran is trying to stop Mahsa Amini protests - www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/10/05/iran-protests-crackdown-deadly/


ETA: And I just received an email with WaPo with all it's top stories, and the one linked above is the header.

[wildrice]

Oct 5, 2022 11:07:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 5, 2022 10:54:50 GMT -5 wildrice said:

It's not as though I am reading multiple newspapers back to back daily, but I follow several via social media (including the NYT and Washington Post, as well as some free ones like Huffington Post) and nothing ever shows up. Is this algorithms that aren't sending me this content, or is it just not being reported at all?

I've been seeing this content on my social media from the sources you posted. I think it's important to remember that we're only shown what we've clicked on in the past, so it's also showing your own bias (not said accusingly at all).

That's good to know, and also annoying. I do want to see that content! I wonder if FB will figure that out if I start reading more articles on the newspaper websites.

[basilosaurus]

Re algorithms, it's in large part based on what you've read, but it's also your location and what others in your area read. My various feeds are all over the place due to using various VPNs and my location often changing. For awhile I somehow was getting suggested candidates in states I've not been to in probably 20 years, and I wasn't even routing through them.

Michelle, I think it's probably all of those things you list. It's women, so we don't care. It's Iran, so we don't care. It's seen as hopeless, so we don't care. Throw in a helping of Russia, and it just becomes too much.

I am seeing news about it, but my cookies still have me recently in UAE and Qatar, so that could be influencing it as well. It hasn't really been covered in the English language newspapers I often read from Hong Kong, Malaysia, and Thailand which surprises me not at all.

[jamaicam]

I tend to get a lot of my news from The Guardian - this is an article they had today. 

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/04/iranian-schoolgirls-take-up-battlecry-as-protests-continue

I am in awe of the strenght that these teenage girls have. They are amazing. I am also terrified for them. 

[sent]

Oct 5, 2022 11:10:30 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Like for me, on WaPo website, the 2nd featured article down is about Iran.

Tactics of repression: How Iran is trying to stop Mahsa Amini protests - www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/10/05/iran-protests-crackdown-deadly/


ETA: And I just received an email with WaPo with all it's top stories, and the one linked above is the header.

I almost never visit WaPo, and it is the second article for me also. I don't browse news site much in general so the feeds usually show me nonsense news stories or national news. 

[pixy0stix]

As for US intervention - this is their fight. Did we want Germany coming in and policing when we were having demonstrations that were turning bloody/deadly because of our militarized police force?

[Michelle]

Oct 5, 2022 14:03:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

As for US intervention - this is their fight. Did we want Germany coming in and policing when we were having demonstrations that were turning bloody/deadly because of our militarized police force?

I don't know if i want us to go in... but I wondered if the media not covering it is because some in our nation will see the info, respond by wanting to act to help, and we don't want to incite that reaction when we know we won't go in nor provide any kind of aid.

I'd also like to see more on sanctions against them. I did see Biden issue some sanctions, but I'd like to see more coverage on that. 

I also appreciate Basilosaurus's comments about location - the geocaching explains a lot about what gets fed to me. I try to avoid all things Trump and still have him shoved in my face along with MTG, Ron DeSantos, and other deplorables. I'm sure they have a lot of fans in our area, so in spite of my best efforts their crap still rises to the top of my news feeds.

[Saudade]

I’m currently in the Middle East and I can tell you that on a micro level no one here is discussing it. Whether that’s due to a block on incoming info or not, I’m not sure as I use a vpn while here.

[Michelle]

Oct 5, 2022 15:07:42 GMT -5 Saudade said:

I’m currently in the Middle East and I can tell you that on a micro level no one here is discussing it. Whether that’s due to a block on incoming info or not, I’m not sure as I use a vpn while here.

Is that odd, in your experience?

[Bad Dingo]

Oct 5, 2022 14:39:58 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Oct 5, 2022 14:03:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

As for US intervention - this is their fight. Did we want Germany coming in and policing when we were having demonstrations that were turning bloody/deadly because of our militarized police force?

I don't know if i want us to go in... but I wondered if the media not covering it is because some in our nation will see the info, respond by wanting to act to help, and we don't want to incite that reaction when we know we won't go in nor provide any kind of aid.

I'd also like to see more on sanctions against them. I did see Biden issue some sanctions, but I'd like to see more coverage on that. 

I also appreciate Basilosaurus's comments about location - the geocaching explains a lot about what gets fed to me. I try to avoid all things Trump and still have him shoved in my face along with MTG, Ron DeSantos, and other deplorables. I'm sure they have a lot of fans in our area, so in spite of my best efforts their crap still rises to the top of my news feeds.

See Pixie's comment above, the media is covering the situation. There are difficulties getting a lot of information because of internet and cellular blackouts and security issues.

[Michelle]

Oct 5, 2022 15:55:19 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Oct 5, 2022 14:39:58 GMT -5 Michelle said:

I don't know if i want us to go in... but I wondered if the media not covering it is because some in our nation will see the info, respond by wanting to act to help, and we don't want to incite that reaction when we know we won't go in nor provide any kind of aid.

I'd also like to see more on sanctions against them. I did see Biden issue some sanctions, but I'd like to see more coverage on that. 

I also appreciate Basilosaurus's comments about location - the geocaching explains a lot about what gets fed to me. I try to avoid all things Trump and still have him shoved in my face along with MTG, Ron DeSantos, and other deplorables. I'm sure they have a lot of fans in our area, so in spite of my best efforts their crap still rises to the top of my news feeds.

See Pixie's comment above, the media is covering the situation. There are difficulties getting a lot of information because of internet and cellular blackouts and security issues.

I did see her other response. The WaPo is not all things media. And since I was the one who asked about interventions, i wanted to reply to her comment about my goal for asking in the first place.

[Bad Dingo]

I've seen a lot of random comments about how Kamala Harris doesn't care about Iran and women (she has spoken about this issue) but it seems like those are talking points being pushed by the right just in case Biden decides not to run again.

Just because you (general you) haven't seen something doesn't mean it isn't happening, and joining the chorus of false information is not helpful. I'm not saying this is happening in this thread, but in general. There's a ton of factual reporting out there, but it might not get fed directly to you.

[wildrice]

Oct 5, 2022 16:05:33 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I've seen a lot of random comments about how Kamala Harris doesn't care about Iran and women (she has spoken about this issue) but it seems like those are talking points being pushed by the right just in case Biden decides not to run again.

Just because you (general you) haven't seen something doesn't mean it isn't happening, and joining the chorus of false information is not helpful. I'm not saying this is happening in this thread, but in general. There's a ton of factual reporting out there, but it might not get fed directly to you.

I hope it is clear that I was never doubting things were happening - I just am not seeing them in the news that I see. Which I get is from algorithms but I also think that's problematic when so many people get their news from following various sources on social media these days. If you don't know something is happening, you don't know to look for it so the information should be put in front of us IMO. 

I do tend to click more frequently on things that are most relevant to me - like I see a lot of political articles after the shit show of the last several years, I see things about student loans because I've looked that up a billion times, etc. But that doesn't mean I (and I presume millions of others) don't care about other things. For all the time I spend scrolling on social media, I would expect the most important current events in the world would show up in my feed at some point, and I think it's an issue that they aren't. 

[lilac05]

Oct 5, 2022 21:09:19 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Oct 5, 2022 16:05:33 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I've seen a lot of random comments about how Kamala Harris doesn't care about Iran and women (she has spoken about this issue) but it seems like those are talking points being pushed by the right just in case Biden decides not to run again.

Just because you (general you) haven't seen something doesn't mean it isn't happening, and joining the chorus of false information is not helpful. I'm not saying this is happening in this thread, but in general. There's a ton of factual reporting out there, but it might not get fed directly to you.

I hope it is clear that I was never doubting things were happening - I just am not seeing them in the news that I see. Which I get is from algorithms but I also think that's problematic when so many people get their news from following various sources on social media these days. If you don't know something is happening, you don't know to look for it so the information should be put in front of us IMO. 

I do tend to click more frequently on things that are most relevant to me - like I see a lot of political articles after the shit show of the last several years, I see things about student loans because I've looked that up a billion times, etc. But that doesn't mean I (and I presume millions of others) don't care about other things. For all the time I spend scrolling on social media, I would expect the most important current events in the world would show up in my feed at some point, and I think it's an issue that they aren't. 

Algorithms are definitely significantly adding to the divide in America. The same story is covered different ways from different sources, and the algorithms know which one you’re most likely to click on. I’ve found a few journalists on Instagram who I follow who do a pretty great job on reporting what’s happening (@mosheh is my current favorite. I used to enjoy SmartHerNews, but lately her bias has been showing a lot in which stories she chooses to cover and which ones she just lets slide by), and I often listen to The Newsworthy Podcast to give a quick overview of what’s going on so I know what to look into further. It’s definitely not perfect, but it works decently for me.

[aurora]

Oct 5, 2022 11:25:40 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Oct 5, 2022 11:07:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I've been seeing this content on my social media from the sources you posted. I think it's important to remember that we're only shown what we've clicked on in the past, so it's also showing your own bias (not said accusingly at all).

That's good to know, and also annoying. I do want to see that content! I wonder if FB will figure that out if I start reading more articles on the newspaper websites.

I assume I'm always being watched online, so probably! I have definitely been seeing articles on these Iranian protests, both on Twitter and directly at the WaPo website that I read daily.

I am hoping for the best for the people there. Sounds like a lot of bravery.

[pixy0stix]

RE: "I'm not seeing it covered in the news!" is generally a false narrative whenever it comes up. For me, I hadn't seen a lick of any of the human trafficking that TX and FL were doing, but on the east coast/midwest it was fairly well covered, if not in the news daily. Sometimes we just have to look, and the articles are there. It's a good lesson in how we expect to be passively fed the "important" news, and how that isn't a good strategy if we want to keep up to date.

[Saudade]

Oct 5, 2022 15:40:46 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Oct 5, 2022 15:07:42 GMT -5 Saudade said:

I’m currently in the Middle East and I can tell you that on a micro level no one here is discussing it. Whether that’s due to a block on incoming info or not, I’m not sure as I use a vpn while here.

Is that odd, in your experience?

No, not at all. It’s very difficult to get ordinary people to speak about politics. They get too scared.

[cattledogkisses]

FWIW, I've seen the Pakistan floods, living conditions in Afghanistan, and the protests in Iran all covered on the front page of NPR recently.

[Velar Fricative]

Oct 6, 2022 8:45:25 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

RE: "I'm not seeing it covered in the news!" is generally a false narrative whenever it comes up. For me, I hadn't seen a lick of any of the human trafficking that TX and FL were doing, but on the east coast/midwest it was fairly well covered, if not in the news daily. Sometimes we just have to look, and the articles are there. It's a good lesson in how we expect to be passively fed the "important" news, and how that isn't a good strategy if we want to keep up to date.

Exactly!

And FWIW, I'm seeing quite a bit about Iran but there are also obvious difficulties with reporting from the ground there. I think before we say "WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THIS?" we should all consider whether it's an algorithm thing and see what's out there ourselves. But, in this muddy news media world, I get doing that is not always perfect either.