I've posted in some other threads about some of this, but this is kind of a very long pulling it all together and mulling it over thread...
Last school year we were debating private school for our older son (7y) because of dyslexia and ADHD. We decided to stick with public given our district revamped their reading curriculum and DS was receiving special ed reading and writing (plus we do OG tutoring 2x/week and did a month summer day camp for dyslexic readers). We had an IEP meeting 2 weeks ago and while he's making progress, he's still a year-plus behind in reading. He's a very intelligent kid ('twice exceptional' is the lingo, I guess), so he's very frustrated by this and it's generated a lot of negative self-talk and anxiety. We are pretty sure we're switching him to a private school in January (DS is on board). (The school specializes in learning differences and ADHD.)
Our younger son (4y) was very recently diagnosed with ASD, level 1 (and also a presumptive ADHD diagnosis, although our developmental psych doesn't diagnose quite this early she agrees a lot of signs point toward it). We've started working through our local school district to get him an IEP during this school year (he's in a daycare for private pre-K) to see what services we may be able to access through them during pre-K but also set it up for K year--we're early in that process. He’s doing ok in his private pre-K class of 12, but has issues that make me very nervous for a regular K class of 20+ kids. So, we're talking with this new school about K admission for him.
H and I have had some big life conversations recently and I think we've both decided we very likely need to commit to special ed private school for at least elementary school for both boys. It is... not what we were planning and not cheap. Let’s say $20-25k/year per kid, with some variables. Plus the cost of their bus ($2500 x 2 kids) since we’re 45 mins from the school.
This was just not something we anticipated when we bought our current house in 2019. We were planning on public school and bought/budgeted around that. (We even stretched a bit to buy thinking we'd be done with private daycare costs soon too.) We upgraded house size when we moved. From a house that was probably around 2200 sq ft plus some unfinished basement/storage square footage to a house that’s closer to 3800 sq ft plus some unfinished extra space too. Our house is on a sizable lot with a large front lawn in an HOA community.
I think we need to downsize. H is in agreement. The thought of selling/buying/moving (plus with the current market and interest rates) is really overwhelming, but we think it’s probably the best decision. We would make some profit on the house that could help us pay for the private schools for a bit, and downsizing would give us more space in the budget for tuition over the longer haul too.
We’re planning to talk to our financial advisor about it in our next meeting in early Nov, but I kind of wanted to solicit thoughts/ideas/questions in advance of that. Like, what am I missing and not thinking about that I need to factor in?
Here are some numbers… (PDQ these bits, will DD)
Current mortgage balance is $350k. House would (hopefully) sell for 680-700k. (Our most recent comp is two doors down from us… late August sale for 700k and lots of similarities to our house.) Our PITI payment is $3300 at 1.99% interest on a 20y. 😢 We also have expenses of lawn service ($250/mo) and cleaning service ($300/mo). (House also has two HVACs, so higher gas/electric costs than our old house by a lot.)
In skimming the housing market for an area that is more affordable, smaller houses (closer to our old house size), and closer to the school, it looks like we’d be buying somewhere in the neighborhood of 450-500k. Say we sell for $680 (lower end) and buy for $500 (higher end), we could put (after realtor %s) about 200k on a down payment (~40%) down, spend ~$10k on moving, etc., and we’d have ~$80k or so to put toward school, put in high-yield savings. By my math, that puts us around ~$2600 PITI on a 30y with mortgage rates sucking as they currently are.
We’d have a ~$700/mo lower mortgage payment. And, the lots are a bit smaller and some are really more forested vs. manicured lawn so that could lower/eliminate lawn costs. Plus having a smaller house either lowers/eliminates the cleaning costs (I could take this on since I WFH). Conceivably saving us a total of $1250/mo total. And, if we move in closer range to the school we don’t have to pay the $2500 x 2 per year for the bus.
This makes sense, right? I mean, if we’re committing to ~5+ years of private school we have to do something drastic to make this work in a comfortable, feasible way over the long haul. Plus, I have been feeling for some time now very overwhelmed by all of the STUFF we have. The idea about downsizing is very appealing for that reason too. What am I missing though?
Post by simpsongal on Oct 24, 2022 12:12:26 GMT -5
That's a tough scenario - I don't think you're missing anything. You may have more mortgage interest to subtract off your taxes if you itemize (so that's a plus).
Your sale price may be even lower than you're expecting, but hopefully your purchase price is as well (some areas are seeing a more than 20% price drops). The more you can put towards a down payment, the better of course. Might the private school have a scholarship or some arrangement for your family w/2 kids in the program? My BIL has his kids in a $$$ private school and they get some help even though they're high earners. I think he does some volunteer work for the school too. I think you're allowed to fund a 529 and use it for private school now. There may be tax benefits in your state, or if your family wants to help w/the funding. Just another thing to consider.
It sounds like you want to move anyway, regardless of the school needs. I hope you find a house that brings you joy and supports your family's needs/goals. Those lower upkeep/HVAC etc. costs could really add up too.
simpsongal , We're applying for financial aid for the school. We actually did earlier this year, when we were feeling out the options and were not approved. However, they've adjusted given inflation and are re-opening our file. We can also re-apply when K rolls around for DS2. Our older son qualifies for a special need state scholarship given he has an IEP. It will be about 7k off his tuition per year (he's eligible for half of that when we start in spring). Just as an idea, it will likely take their 28k tuition for his 3rd grade year to 20-21k. (The scholarship formula shifts a bit each year.) DS2 will likely qualify for something similar, but that all depends on how the IEP process goes for him.
And yeah, I hear you on the housing market. Man, the timing is the actual worst. And RIP my 1.99% interest rate. We live in a very desirable area (great schools! 🙄) and there is very low volume right now, so we have that on our side at the moment.
In terms of timing, I *really* don't want to move in the next few months. Maybe late Spring or Summer?? Blahhhh that whole process suuucks.
Also, the 529 is something I can ask our financial advisor about. Good call, thanks for that! We do have 529s for both boys currently. I think their accounts have like 16-14k each or something like that at the moment.
I think we're in the same metro (go mariners?) and my next door neighbor's house recently went for 10% under the zestimate, it's in great condition so I assume it's the interest rates. I'd recommend you get a couple estimates from realtors on what you could realistically list for in January before you talk with your financial advisor, prices seem to be dropping fast. We've been looking off and on for a couple years to swap from a starter house to something better for our needs, and right now the houses I could "swap" to for a similar value are much nicer than they were a few months ago so I assume my valuation is unrealistically high.
In this kind of interest rate environment maybe it makes sense to rent out your current place, especially if you think you'd be coming back to a bigger place with better schools when your kids are older. That 1.99% is pretty sweet.
Finally, without quoting the dollars, the amount you are saving by downsizing is one kid's tuition, and you are talking about 2 in this school. Can you cover the rest from savings? Does that mean you won't be able to add to things like retirement or 529s? Would you need to take out of savings for a few years? These would be things I'd want to talk to my advisor about.
bee20 Sounds like we're not in the same metro area (go Braves! ha!). Yeah, I'm def worried about the decreasing prices... although maybe that would take $ off both the sale and purchase prices. The thought of renting is not to shabby of an idea, but I'll admit my eye twitched at the thought of me taking on a side gig as a property manager.
In terms of the other tuition $. We'd be swapping private daycare expenses for a portion of the 2nd's private school tuition. Right now that's about $15k/year, so that bumps up to 20ish? I feel like that's definitely within wiggle room in our budget. Oh, and we're going to be dropping the private tutoring, so that's another $600+ a month we're saving.
I think we would have to dial back 529 savings at least in the shorter term until the dust settles, but we could keep retirement savings on track. And we're in good shape there... (we're technically probably in 'great' shape and a bit ahead of the game on that front, but factoring in the current market conditions, saying 'good' feels better than 'great' at the moment).
lessel,Woops, you might be better off on house prices then, ours aren't crashing per se but we had been one of the most heated markets nationwide. I'd still say get an idea before going to your advisor, they will be interested in understanding what money types you have available to maximize the tax savings for this.
Speaking of tax savings, I haven't done this but "medically necessary" private schooling can be considered a health expense and costs over 7.5% of your AGI are deductible. Combined with higher mortgage rates there could be some savings here if you don't use the standard deduction. Perhaps talk to your medical team on if they'd be comfortable certifying this.
bee20 Yes, I'm going to be investigating the tax stuff for sure! The past ~2 years we haven't needed to itemize--we've been right below the threshold, but I think this might push us over next year. We do have a letter of medical necessity from DS1's pediatrician for the dyslexia learning disability as we've used our FSA for reimbursement for the dyslexia summer camp costs.
I think it makes sense and you’ve considered everything I would. Overall it sounds like the right move for your family. I know paying a higher interest rate in a mortgage is hard to swallow, but it’s just one of the pieces so I’d try to just build it into your plan and move on. Maybe interest rates will fall again in a few years and you can refinance.
Also, This is my personal feeling, but I much prefer a smaller house. I felt like our 2800 sq ft house was so big and I hated cleaning it bc it took forever. We had a room we didn’t even use. You may find the smaller home simplifies things.
If it were me, I wouldn’t want to do all that for that “small” of a gain. The 80k is good, that’s 2 years for both kids. But that $1k savings/month is only 12k/yr, which doesn’t even cover one kid. It sounds like the second kid’s tuition is in the budget because of day care plus wiggle room. So is there a way to close the gap on that last 8k? Maybe a house closer to $400k? Or a smaller down payment and you keep more cash for tuition?
I think what I’m saying is if I were gonna sacrifice my house and downsize, I’d want to wiggle the ends a little closer together and close that gap just a bit more. Maybe your financial planner has some ideas. Maybe a house that’s more like 1800 sq ft. Maybe a house that needs some renovations. Idk.
I don't really know how home equity loans work (I've never taken one) but is it possible to borrow against your house for the tuition? It sounds like you have a lot of equity that you could potentially use for wiggle room in your budget. I know my parents used to have a line of credit they could pull from based on their home equity that could be used for anything, but I don't really know how they got it or if that's still a common thing.
Downsizing sounds like a good plan in general, but I'm a little iffy on how much sense it makes in the long term with a higher interest rate. A low interest rate on a 20 year loan vs a higher interest rate on a 30 year loan adds up, and at the end of the term you'll have a less valuable asset to show for it. I don't know what your long term plans are or if you are saving enough for retirement that it doesn't matter, but I think I'd rather retire with no mortgage on a higher value home than retire with a mortgage on a lower value home. I know you're kind of stuck with this situation of needing private school so it's not totally within your control, but if you can find the money elsewhere maybe it would make sense to do that.
Then again, I wouldn't want a house the size of yours either, especially with the yard maintenance. So I can see the appeal of downsizing regardless of whether you can make the budget work with your current house. IDK. Just some random thoughts from me, not actual advice I guess!
I think I've responded to your posts before because we also made the very difficult choice to pull our child from (supposedly "amazing") public schools and send her to a dyslexia-specific private school instead.
I'm glad the school is re-opening your financial aid request, and I hope that you get something more off.
Do you have documentation of the requests that you've made to the school and the fact that he is still far behind? In my state, at least, it is possible to force the school to pay if you can show that you have been working with them and they are still not meeting your child's needs. Unfortunately for us, because I had trusted the school for years, I did not have written documentation of most of the requests and conversations that I had with the school, so I couldn't prove that they had failed her. I also felt a certain sense of urgency to get her into a better situation. But if you have emails and proof that the public school is not working for your child, it may be worth having at least a consultation with an educational advocate to see if you have a case to force the school to pay for your child's private school tuition.
In your case, if you are looking to move your child in January, I would try to make it work for the remainder of the school year to make sure that the new school is a good fit. If by Spring it looks like you will be continuing there, THEN make the decision to move. It just seems like making a decision to move before your child has even tried out the school might be a little early.
I think I've responded to your posts before because we also made the very difficult choice to pull our child from (supposedly "amazing") public schools and send her to a dyslexia-specific private school instead.
I'm glad the school is re-opening your financial aid request, and I hope that you get something more off.
Do you have documentation of the requests that you've made to the school and the fact that he is still far behind? In my state, at least, it is possible to force the school to pay if you can show that you have been working with them and they are still not meeting your child's needs. Unfortunately for us, because I had trusted the school for years, I did not have written documentation of most of the requests and conversations that I had with the school, so I couldn't prove that they had failed her. I also felt a certain sense of urgency to get her into a better situation. But if you have emails and proof that the public school is not working for your child, it may be worth having at least a consultation with an educational advocate to see if you have a case to force the school to pay for your child's private school tuition. In your case, if you are looking to move your child in January, I would try to make it work for the remainder of the school year to make sure that the new school is a good fit. If by Spring it looks like you will be continuing there, THEN make the decision to move. It just seems like making a decision to move before your child has even tried out the school might be a little early.
I came here to say this exact thing! Good luck - its so hard!
I agree about seeing if you can get the district to pay for the private school at least for your older child. When I was a teacher I helped parents do that so if you have a school ally maybe talk to them about it. It sounds like you would have a good paper trail of what has been tried.
I am a little concerned that looking at the numbers you might end up downsizing and still not being able to comfortably pay tuition. What if at some point they could transition back to public school? Would you be happy with that where you are wanting to move? Middle school isn’t that far off with your older child.
It’s also possible your younger child might not need as much help as you are predicting. Many kids with ASD 1 don’t need large, ongoing interventions. Would you want to have moved if you only end up having one kid in the school for 3 1/2 years?
At the very least I’d have your oldest kid try out the new school before moving. It’s possible it might not be a great fit in an unpredictable way.
I’m sorry you are in this position! It’s really rough and hard to know what the right thing to do is.
Also want to add, that I'm not sure where you live, but if you are going to move for a school anyway, are there other options in your metro area that may offer better financial aid? We chose DD's school based on the proximity to our home. But if we were going to move anyway, there are at least 3 other options in our metropolitan area, and we probably would have chosen one that goes through high school (her current school only goes to 8th grade so it's not a permanent solution for her).
Post by purplepenguin7 on Oct 25, 2022 11:28:07 GMT -5
I think your plan makes sense on paper. I know this is MM and all, but you can't let a super low interest ditacte the rest of your life (even though it SUCKS to give it up). Sometimes you have to do whats best for your life and family and that may mean relocating/moving, etc.
That being said, you covered the financial part (it is MM afterall) but what about the rest. Do you like the area where the private school is? Are there shops, business, restuarants, lifestyle things you would enjoy? Are there kids activities nearby? Are your friends/family going to be 45 mins away? Would you be happy with the public school if it becomes times to switch or would you move back to where you are now? I'm just wondering if you might be moving from more city to rural with that much of a change in property values.
wildrice - We did talk with our financial advisor about a HELOC when we were thinking about just one kid in private and weren't sure we'd get the special needs scholarship, etc. But it feels like a shorter term solution that doesn't really help us lower expenses.
jinkies - I have some documentation and have thought about going the legal or advocate route (and even talked to two attorneys last school year when they were refusing to document DS's learning disability in reading), but I think from the point we're at now it would probably take an additional year of documentation, more money on advocates and tutors, and untold hours of stress to build a case that would go through the mediation process with the county to *maybe* come out the other side with private tuition paid for. Meanwhile DS1 is still not closing the gap. Honestly, all of the school stuff and research and special ed services stuff is all on me and part of the decision to go to a special ed private school is getting some relief for my current stress level. DH is involved and supportive, but I'm the one doing the heavy lifting, a lot of it is because of the nature of his job and just an hours in the day situation. Meanwhile I am so overly stressed about all of the kid stuff right now I'm losing sleep more nights than not and it's just all too much. I feel like a failure after every IEP meeting... all the questions I should have asked and didn't, etc. It's just too much.
We've explored all of the private options that specialize in dyslexia in our area and honestly the school we're choosing is among the cheaper options. With tuition in the 23-27 range, most are 35-40+.
purplepenguin7 - We'd be moving closer to the private school but not in the immediate area... that area is unaffordable to us. We'd be moving about 15ish minutes from it, which is about 20-25ish minutes from our current area. It's pretty comparable in terms of both being suburban. DS could probably still say in the same baseball rec league, etc. if he wanted to continue that sort of thing. And honestly, most of our closer friends are actually more in town in our old neighborhood and surrounding area, outside of a few neighborhood friends we've made where we are.
1. School wise, I would hire an educational advocate to see if you can get them to pay for the private school. I agree with trying out the private school before basing life decisions on it. If you do decide to go back to public school, are the public schools good for you in the area where you would move?
2. House wise, do you love the house or did you just buy it because it was bigger and in the school district? It feels too big at 3800 square feet. We also are not huge fans of HOA but sometimes they are hard to avoid. I'm sorry for the higher interest rates, but hopefully you can refinance at some point.
lessel, I totally understand. It all fell to me, too, and it was so incredibly stressful. We had a lot of the same issues (the time and expense of fighting the school with an advocate would have just set DD further behind, and there was still no guarantee we would win). I wish it were all easier for us and for our kids. You are doing great, and I hope you are able to resolve things soon.
DD is now in her second year at her school and it has been great for her. She was actually recently pulled from her small-group Wilson class and now gets one on one instruction with a teacher she LOVES. Ironically with her at a very expensive private school, her classmates are actually less focused on having the right things (no one cares what brand shoes or backpack she has, no one cares if she has a phone yet or not. This was not the case in her public school). Her classmates are also more diverse. She was not thrilled about the move, and honestly not fully on board with going back this year. Then last week she told me that she hopes she can continue there next year. Her confidence has grown so much.
I had many, many sleepless nights as we weighed our options. I know how hard it is. It sounds like you are making a good plan based on your family's specific needs.
1. School wise, I would hire an educational advocate to see if you can get them to pay for the private school. I agree with trying out the private school before basing life decisions on it. If you do decide to go back to public school, are the public schools good for you in the area where you would move?
2. House wise, do you love the house or did you just buy it because it was bigger and in the school district? It feels too big at 3800 square feet. We also are not huge fans of HOA but sometimes they are hard to avoid. I'm sorry for the higher interest rates, but hopefully you can refinance at some point.
I think we posted about the same time re: #1. I just don't have the fight in me to do the advocate/legal route and sink more time/money/stress into it. It's a really daunting process.
And agree on trying out the private school... we'll basically have from January to March to do that because we have to re-enroll/commit to the next school year then by their calendar.
For #2, we do not love our current house. The layout isn't great--kind of narrow in the kitchen/family room areas where we mostly live and has extra rooms like formal living/formal dining that we could do without really. And we have a living room/playroom in our basement that I literally go months without going downstairs to use. The one thing that's nice is I have an office since I 100% WFH now and we have a bonus room ('flex space') in our basement that H has kind of created into his office/art/nerd room (he's a poster collector/action figure guy), but even he admits it's kind of a waste of space and we can live without it.
We bought more for area of town--school district was one factor, but also tried to triangulate reasonable commutes for H and I too. It's a nice area and got great parks too, which we like... but realize our kids will kind of age out of that eventually. TBH, the actual neighborhood we're in has a bit more of an older/conservative/churchy crowd than I expected, so I don't super love our specific neighborhood although it's one of the more desirable in our corner of town it sounds like. Our HOA is actually pretty hands-off, which I appreciate, but there are covenants about appearance, etc. hence our lawn service and whatnot.
If this particular private school doesn't work out, we would be closer to 2-3 other school private options and the school district is comparable to our current one (maybe even better on some fronts... might depend on the specific neighborhood we land in), but in terms of middle/high school it'd be equivalent or maybe better public.
jinkies Thank you. It is so hard and I'm so glad to hear your daughter is doing well. Definitely sounds like our situation is similar. The sleepless nights where I spin IEP meetings over and over in my head are just so draining. I just feel like I fail to advocate effectively for my kid in that setting and before I know it I'm signing a paper that I agree with whatever the eff they just decided. I'm over it... I'm so, so worn down by it. I told H that I know we're going to be creating a financial problem for ourselves and while financial stress is not fun, I would take that stress any day over feeling like I'm failing my kid.
DS is actually really into switching schools. His concern is specifically more around missing a couple current friends and being sad about that. He's totally into the fact the new school has recess 2x/day and PE 4x/week. He's excited about the smaller class size. He much prefers his special ed reading/writing classes where it's 4-8 kids vs. the 24 in his gen ed class and he's excited his new class will only have 6 kids.
In terms of the house it definitely doesn't sound like you all would be sad to leave it or the neighborhood. Because our park has a nice area of land instead of just playground, the kids are still using it. Oldest is 12. They get together with their friends and play flag football and baseball over there. So we do like that, but just a thought for when you are looking for your next place. But they have mostly outgrown the playground structure part of it at 9 and 12.
I think it would depend on where in this metro area (go Braves-the Falcons are playing like garbage) you move. My suburb is seeing price 'improvements' of houses on the market up to 10% and still not moving in the $400-800K range. If you could wait a year it might be a better time to consider moving; give the market time to stabilize and maybe interest rates to come down.
But I would encourage you to apply or look into the more expensive schools. They may actually have bigger endowments and scholarship money available. That said, some places have rules about scholarships. Some won’t let you save for college in a 529 if you receive financial aid.
Im sorry that you have tough decisions and the school isn’t being all that helpful
But I would encourage you to apply or look into the more expensive schools. They may actually have bigger endowments and scholarship money available. That said, some places have rules about scholarships. Some won’t let you save for college in a 529 if you receive financial aid.
Im sorry that you have tough decisions and the school isn’t being all that helpful
Interesting about the 529 contributions thing. I’ll have to investigate.
We did look at a couple of the more expensive ones. The two we went farther with admissions with are more solely focused on remediating dyslexia. ADHD learners are not something they specialize in, although it’s often co-morbid with dyslexia. The current school we’re considering definitely has a focus on ADHD and teaching executive function skills. (And dealing with kids with anxiety, which he’s struggling with too.) So it’s sort of an all around better fit (we hope!).
I hear you on the interest rates. I read that the monthly payment on a $600k mortgage with the sub-2% interest rate is the same payment you'll make on a $380k mortgage with the new higher rate. 😵
One thing you might consider: if you have a fixed-rate mortgage, your lender might be open to porting the mortgage to the new property (especially if you aren't looking to increase the amount on the current mortgage). That way you could keep the 1.99% interest rate.
smock Yeah, the interest rates really sting. When we first met with our financial advisor earlier this year they thought my 1.99 rate was a typo. (Which, btw, credit to this place for making me check rates on a refi at the literal best possible moment!) But I also kind of feel like it’s a “well it is what it is” kind of uncontrollable. And we can always redo if/when rates drop again. 🤞 The thing about porting a mortgage I have literally never heard of. Doesn’t hurt to ask about it, I suppose!
I hear you on the interest rates. I read that the monthly payment on a $600k mortgage with the sub-2% interest rate is the same payment you'll make on a $380k mortgage with the new higher rate. 😵
One thing you might consider: if you have a fixed-rate mortgage, your lender might be open to porting the mortgage to the new property (especially if you aren't looking to increase the amount on the current mortgage). That way you could keep the 1.99% interest rate.
I hear you on the interest rates. I read that the monthly payment on a $600k mortgage with the sub-2% interest rate is the same payment you'll make on a $380k mortgage with the new higher rate. 😵
One thing you might consider: if you have a fixed-rate mortgage, your lender might be open to porting the mortgage to the new property (especially if you aren't looking to increase the amount on the current mortgage). That way you could keep the 1.99% interest rate.