Alcoholics - what to do?

[tealblue]

PDQ specifics. I may go back through and delete some info about this.

I know there are people in recovery and people with relatives in recovery or in active addiction and I’d love advice or a place to chat.

I have a close family member who is an alcoholic- married with a wife and 2 small kids. Long story shorter- {removed} I feel horrible for her and the kids and have been helping as much as I can - emotional support and watching their kids.

He says he’s doing amazing. Doesn’t need help, doctors said he’s amazing, etc. he can stop drinking whenever he wants. So clearly he does not want help.

After last night/this morning I will stop engaging with him as will the other family member who is close and knows what’s going on. Any advice for those in similar situations where someone does not want to seek help? Did your family/friend group cut off contact? Only do bare minimum? Other options?

I know what he does is his choice. I was encouraging him to continue treatment for the sake of him and his kids. {removed} (Please note I do realize this addiction is beyond his control. And hope my caring is coming across here that this is a really hard for me. We were really close, texting nearly daily, hanging out often with our families.{removed})

Sorry for the ramble- any advice or way forward?

[sparkythelawyer]

I am so sorry this is your story right now. It sucks. I think you are doing what there is to be done.

[aetrying]

I am so sorry. Been there.

He has not hit rock bottom. I think you're on the right track. Create your boundaries and stick to them. Support his wife in her boundaries. Be there for the kids. Spoil them, hug them and love them.

He'll either hit rock bottom and do what he needs to do before it's too late or he won't and none of us can tell you which he'll choose.

Let him know you love him and will support him, but you can't have him a part of your life the way he is now.

Hugs and love to you.

Fuck addiction.

[pinkdutchtulips]

PDQ

It was my now late xh.

He swore he could kick his habit on his own, didn't need rehab, etc. 4 5150 (danger to himself and others) holds later and everyone but him knew that wasn't the case. Eventually, after I left with a restraining order in hand, he did go to detox and rehab but once he was out, he relapsed for good 6 weeks later. I ceased all contact with him (restraining order) and the only person who checked in on him was his brother. My xh spent the last 8 years of his life as a homeless addict bc he burnt every bridge.

He heaped alot of blame my way for his addiction. When he completed rehab, he said he 'needed' me for his recovery to stick. I knew better, he wanted me to assume responsibility for his recovery so when he failed, he could blame me. I told him, NO, that recovery was his responsibility and for him to take ownership of. In the end, that was too much to ask of him.

Do what you can for his wife and their kids. I found alot of support w/in xh's family who viewed it as a tragic sad event bc he basically abandoned his daughter. We still get together sometimes even though J's been a part of my life the last 5 years. 

[aetrying]

pinkdutchtulips, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize he passed. I hope you and DD have found some peace. I'm sure it brought up some things.

[tealblue]

Nov 22, 2022 13:59:04 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

PDQ
;

I’m so sorry for all you in this same boat and so much for you pinkdutchtulips.

{removed}

I am so glad your daughter have such a great family.

Thank you all, I will continue to support her and the kids as much as I can.

[dochas]

Do whatever you can for the wife and children. DO NOT try to help him see his children.

I know that this is difficult for you but you can't help him unless he specifically asks for your help in getting sober. That would begin and end with driving him to a facility or researching places for him to check himself into.

ETA: He doesn't know what he's saying. Don't try to reason it out or make any sense of it. And don't waste your time discussing his bizarre reasoning or excuses. 

[tealblue]

Nov 22, 2022 14:11:04 GMT -5 dochas said:

Do whatever you can for the wife and children. DO NOT try to help him see his children.

Thank you. His wife asked me to host them for the holiday so he could see his kids in a ‘neutral’ location that doesn’t invite him into their house. But he did not want to come, so that’s off. I will only let him see them if she’s ok with it. I have not told him that I’ve kept his kids for her- not sure if she’s informed him at all, but doubtful.

Edit- and thanks for your edit. I’m an analyzer to the 1000th degree and like to make things make sense. It’s clear that doesn’t apply now.

[dochas]

I'm sorry too if my comments sound cold. I was the child suffering and then the adult trying to protect my niece and nephew. I've lived it from 2 sides and I know it's agony.

[tealblue]

Not cold at all. It’s a shitty situation for everyone involved.

Sorry it affects so many of us in different ways 😢

[rosiebear]

This is my sister. Is she sober now? Who knows? She’ll swear she is, as you hear ice cubes clinking and her words slurring over the phone. All I can do is text her my love and support once in a while. It’s so very tragic. She gets sober, relapses, goes into rehab, rinse repeat, rinse repeat.

Her H has basically walled himself off from our help, which is his choice of course, but there is some shit going on there, too.

I feel for you. All you can do is offer support and assistance to those who will take it, and speak words of love to those who won’t. I’m sorry. I’m still learning how to navigate all this, too, and it fucking blows.

[underwaterrhymes]

Loving an alcoholic feels so helpless and I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

Honestly, all you can do is to let him know that you love him but that only he can help himself. You can tell him you’ll be there when he’s ready to take that step, but that you can’t take it for him. You can give him resources, but only he can take advantage of them.

It’s really hard to acknowledge your lack of power here because we convince ourselves if we say the right thing or are persuasive enough, they will see the path to sobriety. But the best gift you can give yourself is the understanding that you have played no role in their addiction and there is nothing you can to make them find sobriety. Loving yourself is what you need to do here. Truthfully.

My parents are alcoholics and have been sober for 14 years (dad) and 9 years (mom), but it was a very long and painful road with many false stops. Learning to accept my lack of power and love myself through it all didn’t help my parents get sober, but it helped me work through my own trauma and grief, which has also fostered my relationships with them in their sobriety.

I’m so sorry. I truly wish there was an easy answer.

ETA - This holds true for his wife too. Children are harder, but show them all the love you can and let them know how much he loves them too.

[waverly]

My dad is an alcoholic. When we became adults, we were not really that involved with his life, he was fairly functional, so we just sort of encouraged quitting and that was it. He moved to a foreign county and was there for about 10 years before we had to rescue him and bring him back to the states for alcoholism. He drank so much that he gave himself a brain disease and now is in assisted living.

Since the person doesn't want help, there isn't much you can do. What I would suggest is rehab, but I think they have to be willing to go. We did force my dad into rehab and it kind of helped him but since he already had the brain disease he was still mostly confused, so I am not sure what Rehab ended up really doing. Probably the only reason he is sober is because of assisted living, so he just has no access. He is also still very confused and on medication for his confusion.  Maybe he should have stayed in his assisted living home the first time, but he wouldn't listen to reason and became combative.  So he left and started drinking.  And now is back in assisted living.  He is compliant now, but only because of the medication.  

[flex]

I've been in recovery for many years. The best thing you can do is let him know you're there IF AND WHEN he asks for help. But you're not there to buy into his denial. If he doesn't want help, then that's on him. Speaking as a recovering addict/alcoholic I will tell you that we're INFAMOUS for our finger-pointing and blaming everything and everyone for our problems, but in reality we should be pointing the finger at ourselves.

I suggest Al-Anon for the friends and family of active alcoholics. It's can be very helpful and liberating.

[tealblue]

Thank you all for your kind words and congrats on the continued sobriety flex

[pinkdutchtulips]

Nov 22, 2022 14:02:47 GMT -5 aetrying said:

pinkdutchtulips , I'm so sorry. I didn't realize he passed. I hope you and DD have found some peace. I'm sure it brought up some things.

Thank you. He passed away last December. It lifted quite a bit of Miss R's anxiety but it still lingers. The worst part was that she never got closure from him, she never got her dad back and was able to have a relationship w. him. 

[lucybrown]

You've received good advice from previous posters. I'll echo the Al Anon recommendation. I've been surrounded by alcoholics for most of my life, some sober, others that will die before they consider the idea they have a problem. Al Anon has helped me immensely. A thing I hear often is that you have to figure out how to be okay regardless of whether the person drinks or not.

There is a lot of talk about loving people where they are. I don't think this is possible without first exploring where your boundaries are. And deciding what you will or will not accept in your life from this person. So often, the help is actually enabling. Knowing what you find unacceptable will help guide whether to cut contact or not.

Good luck. This stuff isn't easy, but there is much wisdom and support here for you.

[sofamonkey]

The only thing I will add is this: firstly, respect her boundaries, don’t push a bit or see if we could just do it this way etc. as she’s likely put thought and mental energy into things. Secondly, respect your own boundaries. She can want something and ask for , but you don’t have to accommodate that. I’m sorry, I can’t do that, is there a different way I could help you reach your goal(s)? For instance, the visit at your house. You don’t have to agree to host that if it’s going to make you uncomfortable, but you could host at a different day or location. Lastly, give both yourself and the wife some grace. There isn’t a playbook to know exactly what the right thing to do is. Sometimes, you’ll make a small or large mistake, even if you do your best to make the best decision you ever made in your entire life. Sometimes shit happens, sometimes the fan is on high. Regroup, replan with the new info, and know you are both trying your best. It’s hard.

Hugs and strength to you, We are here whenever you need.

[soberaf]

I’ve been sober for 15 years. I can tell you I wasn’t ready to quit until I’d had enough. For some of us, it takes a lot of time and unfortunately consequences to get sober. For others in recovery the so-called “bottom” is simply being sick and tired of being sick and tired. I know from personal experience nobody could convince me to quit until I was ready.
I missed your full story. Some parts have been redacted apparently. I gather you’ve been helping his family which is great. Please continue to love and support them. Maybe gently suggest AlAnon the woman. It’s a wonderful source of support. She won’t have to feel alone.

Thanks for your efforts and questions!

[sent]

In my situation, my spouse was always something, I couldn't put my finger on it. He would joke that he's a functioning alcoholic and I always said that wasn't a thing, only an excuse. I don't know why it took me so long to google the term so it was only a few years ago that I learned that a functional alcoholic actually is a thing. He has a decent sized extended family who have witnessed his poor drinking behaviors for decades now. They pretend to not see his drinking problem and some of them even encourage it by denying that he has a problem. I mostly stopped attending their get togethers pre-COVID. However, I would be at home worried sick because my kids would be there and I wasn't totally confident that MIL would be able to handle them while keeping her drunk son from doing things like driving off while under the influence. COVID did reduce his drinking in general but didn't stop the core behavior. It did stop the get togethers. So when things resumed post-COVID, I decided I also had to resume attending these events to protect my kids. There was a full weekend get together this summer with his extended family and it was the same old, same old. I had to be there for my kids who were having so much fun with their cousins. I seriously wanted to rage at all of his family members who just KOKO including my FIL who said "it's just one night."

I can only piece together your story. Did he leave the family? Is he seeking treatment and you're wondering how to be there for him? From what I can gather, please be there for his kids. They probably love your company if your families were previously very close.

[nextbigthing]

Addiction is so tough, I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

I divorced XH when I came home and he was drunk with our then 14 month old. He was sort of a secret drunk. Like I knew something was up but didn't at the time know the extent.

He swore he'd quit. Swore he wasn't an alcoholic. 2 stints in rehab and I think he's sober, but he still has to take a breathalyzer any time he has DS (now 7).

I think you have to step back. You can't fix an addict and that was the hardest thing for me to learn. I'd support his wife if she wants support and do what you can for the kids. He has to decide to get clean or it will never work. It's one of those where you can only control yourself in the situation

[tealblue]

Nov 23, 2022 3:11:02 GMT -5 sent said:

I can only piece together your story. Did he leave the family? Is he seeking treatment and you're wondering how to be there for him? From what I can gather, please be there for his kids. They probably love your company if your families were previously very close.

Sorry you’ve dealt with this too. I took out some very specific things but yes, he was told to seek treatment. He did medical detox and had horrible withdrawals so he ended up in the Hospital but then was released. He’s currently in a hotel, did a weekend trip to the mental health place after threats of self harm and now back to the hotel to continue drinking.

My question was do I just need to cut it off with him? He’s clearly not interested in getting sober and I do not like being around him when he drinks. He’s mean (emotionally not physically), he has fallen and nearly landed on my kids/his kids. Like your situation, he can’t be trusted to watch his own kids. They were part of our Covid bubble so we spent a lot of time together and the last 1.5 years we’ve distanced ourselves from them (unfortunately) as much as we could while also helping her. So now he’s gone and checked out of his kids lives, so I’m stepping in to help with the kids as I can and emotionally support her. We’re in a weird place where he is my family member so I’m concerned for him but supporting her and she doesn’t want to tell me too much I guess. I know their kids have loved spending time again because they did not hang out much recently.

[underwaterrhymes]

tealblue - only you can say whether or not you need to cut it off with him. I chose not to cut my parents out of my life, but others may go this path. Neither are wrong.

My sister no longer has a relationship with my father. This happened after he got sober. I talk to him every week. We both do what we feel works best for our own mental health.

I would just caution you that alcoholics justify and manipulate to validate their choices, which is harmful. You or anyone else in his life taking a step back to protect yourselves is not going to cause him to spiral. His addiction causes him to spiral.

[dochas]

tealblue, you don't have to make that decision today. Even if this has been an issue for a while this is new territory right now and it's okay for it to take some time to see where things are. Wherever your boundary gets set, it doesn't mean you don't love him. It's also fine to say to him right now "You cannot be around my children when you're drinking". Your words aren't going to send him into a spin, he's already in one. The same way you can't stop it, you can't cause it. It doesn't work that way.

As a bit of a warning, in my situation my brother's wife wasn't always the easiest to deal with herself. She never set a real boundary and so they went round and round and she would drag us into it at any time of the night. It's really so difficult to navigate with children in the mix.

[lucybrown]

Nov 23, 2022 10:16:53 GMT -5 dochas said:

tealblue , you don't have to make that decision today. Even if this has been an issue for a while this is new territory right now and it's okay for it to take some time to see where things are. Wherever your boundary gets set, it doesn't mean you don't love him. It's also fine to say to him right now "You cannot be around my children when you're drinking". Your words aren't going to send him into a spin, he's already in one. The same way you can't stop it, you can't cause it. It doesn't work that way.

As a bit of a warning, in my situation my brother's wife wasn't always the easiest to deal with herself. She never set a real boundary and so they went round and round and she would drag us into it at any time of the night. It's really so difficult to navigate with children in the mix.

The last bit is a good point.  Boundaries can be just as important with her.  Addiction impacts everyone in the family.   

deleted.

[tealblue]

Thank you all for the words and commiseration and stories of your own situations. I really do have a lot to think about and where to put my boundaries.

I’m realizing he’s even now being enabled (renting hotel rooms, people stressing about how he’s getting there, etc). And although not directly supporting his drinking, seeing how he’s now engulfed so much of our lives through this stage.
It’s one thing if this was to get him into and through rehab but what’s the end game here (this is rhetorical) and where do I stop helping him and helping people who are enabling him for my own mental health.

Just sucks all around. And at the holidays especially.

[newnamesameperson]

Nov 23, 2022 11:31:24 GMT -5 tealblue said:

Hi!  I don't know if I missed an update, but I've thought about you since your original post.  I had wanted to come back, then forgot, to post that a really great resource for many (and there are many) in a similar situation is Al-anon.  Al-anon has virtual meetings or in-person attendance that could be very helpful to you (regardless of whether the situation is currently positive/negative right now).

[tealblue]

Jan 3, 2023 9:28:08 GMT -5 newnamesameperson said:

Nov 23, 2022 11:31:24 GMT -5 tealblue said:

Hi!  I don't know if I missed an update, but I've thought about you since your original post.  I had wanted to come back, then forgot, to post that a really great resource for many (and there are many) in a similar situation is Al-anon.  Al-anon has virtual meetings or in-person attendance that could be very helpful to you (regardless of whether the situation is currently positive/negative right now).

Thank you! I saw this post was bumped back up.

I haven’t provided an update but I have basically cut of contact with my family member. It was just emotionally dragging me down and consuming my mental time wondering what he’s going on about. He’s still drinking and living in an extended stay hotel. He’s not taking any steps to seek treatment or get a job or lease an apartment. My mom is in contact with him and checks in and tries to push him to do anything at all. She asked if I was talking to him, I said no because I needed to keep myself mentally healthy and can’t deal with his alcoholism anymore. I told her that I would support him if he decides to get help but not able to engage with him now. My mom invited him to our family Christmas but he didn’t come.

I caught up with his wife this week and she’s had a rough time with losing a very close family member. But I could tell she’s emotionally much happier and less stressed without him. She is trying make plans with this person weekly so he can see the kids. He rarely comes. She’s gotten her oldest son into therapy based on a recommendation on where my son goes to therapy. Their son is really struggling with all the losses.

Thanks for checking in, I have considered Al anon as well but have not made any effort to actually do it.

[simpsongal]

tealblue, hugs, I'm glad people are enforcing boundaries and tending to their own mental health/wellness. Also wanted to add - Fvck addiction (my brother is an addict, 2 yrs sober...).

[newnamesameperson]

tealblue, good for you for setting boundaries. I'd highly recommend the program for his wife, although you all know what is best obviously being in the situation yourselves. It's just another option even for when you are no longer dealing directly with the addict to attempt to deal with the trauma that often still lingers.