Zelenskyy addressing Congress

[AAM2012]

Who cut the onions tonight?!?!

Anyone else watching?

[AAM2012]

Nancy giving the flag said “it’s heavy and someone will get it for you”…Zelenskyy: “I can hold”

[icedcoffee]

Nancy starts with announcing president of THE Ukraine. 🤦‍♀️

[erbear]

So powerful.

[icedcoffee]

And fuck Lauren Boebert sitting there like a dumb fool.

[icedcoffee]

He did great though! I cried when he addressed the diaspora up in the balcony. Slava Ukraini!

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 21, 2022 20:50:44 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Nancy starts with announcing president of THE Ukraine. 🤦‍♀️

Oh that killed me. I thought we were past this, people!!

It was a wonderful speech.

[erbear]

Dec 21, 2022 21:15:13 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

And fuck Lauren Boebert sitting there like a dumb fool.

She’s the worst.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 21, 2022 21:49:31 GMT -5 erbear said:

Dec 21, 2022 21:15:13 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

And fuck Lauren Boebert sitting there like a dumb fool.

She’s the worst.

I can’t believe she showed up. It’s not like she would change her mind. I’m so mad she juuuuust barely won re-election.

[Patsy Baloney]

Gaetz, Boebert, and the rest of the fucking GQP clown car should be rocketed into the sun.

That speech was fantastic. The free world hinges on a victorious Ukraine. He’s right - we are too interconnected in this world to act like an ocean keeps us safe. Great, great speech.

ETA: this is the part that was profound to me -

This battle is not only for the territory, for this or another part of Europe. The battle is not only for life, freedom and security of Ukrainians or any other nation which Russia attempts to conquer. This struggle will define in what world our children and grandchildren will live, and then their children and grandchildren.

It will define whether it will be a democracy of Ukrainians and for Americans — for all. This battle cannot be frozen or postponed. It cannot be ignored, hoping that the ocean or something else will provide a protection. From the United States to China, from Europe to Latin America, and from Africa to Australia, the world is too interconnected and interdependent to allow someone to stay aside and at the same time to feel safe when such a battle continues.

Full transcript here: www.nytimes.com/2022/12/21/us/politics/zelensky-speech-transcript.html

[NewOrleans]

Boebert and co don’t see what this kind of courage looks like in their wretched little lives. Only the theatrics of the people they surround themselves with, people who aren’t actually oppressed. So why would they applaud?

I don’t think we posted it here, but Zelensky and the spirit of Ukraine was Time’s Person of the Year.

time.com/person-of-the-year-2022-volodymyr-zelensky/

[5kcandlesinthewind]

The speech was wonderful and so masterful. He did everything he needed to do in it; directly linking the future of the US and Ukraine, and tying Russia to Iran so even the Putin-ites don't have a leg to stand on was genius. And to have been so eloquent in a non-native language was so, so impressive. I guarantee more than a few people in that room didn't know what "bicameral" meant. He is such an inspiration; I am sure he had no idea this is what his presidency would look like, but he has more than met them moment.

I was also a little verklempt seeing Pelosi and Harris at the dais knowing the next time there's a joint session it will be Kevin Freaking McCarthy or some other asshole. If I were Kamala, I would need to throw a bunch of plates or something before AND after sitting next that fucking guy.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 21, 2022 20:50:44 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Nancy starts with announcing president of THE Ukraine. 🤦‍♀️

Could this be more culturally incompetent? 

[klingklang77]

Dec 22, 2022 8:24:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dec 21, 2022 20:50:44 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Nancy starts with announcing president of THE Ukraine. 🤦‍♀️

Could this be more culturally incompetent? 

I taught a writing class (at a translation/interpreter school) with a Ukrainian, a Belorussian, and an Estonian and they all wrote ‘the Ukraine’ in their writing (I forget the topic exactly, but it was describe where you come from). I corrected it and say they don’t use an article anymore for Ukraine in English. The Ukrainian rolled her eyes and said it doesn’t matter.

I don’t know if it is because German still uses an article for Ukraine or not, but this was an English class. I have been asked a few times by Ukrainians if English uses an article for Ukraine and I say no and often get confused looks. 

I, of course, teach it with no article, but after these few experiences I am left scratching my head. 

[NewOrleans]

Dec 26, 2022 8:20:49 GMT -5 klingklang77 said:

Dec 22, 2022 8:24:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Could this be more culturally incompetent? 

I taught a writing class (at a translation/interpreter school) with a Ukrainian, a Belorussian, and an Estonian and they all wrote ‘the Ukraine’ in their writing (I forget the topic exactly, but it was describe where you come from). I corrected it and say they don’t use an article anymore for Ukraine in English. The Ukrainian rolled her eyes and said it doesn’t matter.

I don’t know if it is because German still uses an article for Ukraine or not, but this was an English class. I have been asked a few times by Ukrainians if English uses an article for Ukraine and I say no and often get confused looks. 

I, of course, teach it with no article, but after these few experiences I am left scratching my head. 

It’s Russian imperialist and Soviet-imposed linguistic dominance. Basically in Russian, there are 2 forms of the prepositions “in” and “to.” One of them you would use to refer to a fixed designated place (like a country) and one of them you would use to refer to a more unclearly defined space (like the South.)  So using the second designates Ukraine as a space without defined borders (aka a Russian satellite.)  The linguistic history of the word “Ukraine” matters too— it basically translated to outskirts or border territory.  Add in some geopolitics and you have a point of contention.  (Putin says the second every time he speaks, but in his case it’s intentional af). 

Some Russians resist this in the way that conservatives bemoan “political correctness” with an eyeroll, if that explains the distinction. They say it’s just their linguistic norm and always has been and they don’t mean anything by it.

So Pelosi linguistically and inadvertently entered into all of that with her statement.  (I suppose she would be entering it anyway if she just said Ukraine, but it would be in accordance with how Ukrainian people refer to themselves, and the person she was introducing [Zelensky] just says Ukraine).  I think that’s messy of her.

I assure you that your students don’t speak for all Ukrainians. The Ukrainian government has asked for the first of the prepositions to be used. The students may be from pro-Russian eastern Ukraine who have supported Russian occupation. Or they legitimately might not care about how language is inherently political, viewing the argument as a boring political abstraction that doesn’t affect their daily lives.  I get that detachment. Some Americans just like Chick Fil A and don’t think their chicken sandwich is a political statement. Some of us are like “Chick Fil A tastes like hate and fuck them on Sundays too.” I’m the latter type of American and Slav. 

All that is to say, Слава Україні.

[basilosaurus]

Thanks NewOrleans. I knew it was inappropriate so say THE but never knew exactly why. "The more you know" star is flashing bright in front of me right now.

[klingklang77]

Dec 26, 2022 10:52:03 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dec 26, 2022 8:20:49 GMT -5 klingklang77 said:

I taught a writing class (at a translation/interpreter school) with a Ukrainian, a Belorussian, and an Estonian and they all wrote ‘the Ukraine’ in their writing (I forget the topic exactly, but it was describe where you come from). I corrected it and say they don’t use an article anymore for Ukraine in English. The Ukrainian rolled her eyes and said it doesn’t matter.

I don’t know if it is because German still uses an article for Ukraine or not, but this was an English class. I have been asked a few times by Ukrainians if English uses an article for Ukraine and I say no and often get confused looks. 

I, of course, teach it with no article, but after these few experiences I am left scratching my head. 

It’s Russian imperialist and Soviet-imposed linguistic dominance. Basically in Russian, there are 2 forms of the prepositions “in” and “to.” One of them you would use to refer to a fixed designated place (like a country) and one of them you would use to refer to a more unclearly defined space (like the South.)  So using the second designates Ukraine as a space without defined borders (aka a Russian satellite.)  The linguistic history of the word “Ukraine” matters too— it basically translated to outskirts or border territory.  Add in some geopolitics and you have a point of contention.  (Putin says the second every time he speaks, but in his case it’s intentional af). 

Some Russians resist this in the way that conservatives bemoan “political correctness” with an eyeroll, if that explains the distinction. They say it’s just their linguistic norm and always has been and they don’t mean anything by it.

So Pelosi linguistically and inadvertently entered into all of that with her statement.  (I suppose she would be entering it anyway if she just said Ukraine, but it would be in accordance with how Ukrainian people refer to themselves, and the person she was introducing [Zelensky] just says Ukraine).  I think that’s messy of her.

I assure you that your students don’t speak for all Ukrainians. The Ukrainian government has asked for the first of the prepositions to be used. The students may be from pro-Russian eastern Ukraine who have supported Russian occupation. Or they legitimately might not care about how language is inherently political, viewing the argument as a boring political abstraction that doesn’t affect their daily lives.  I get that detachment. Some Americans just like Chick Fil A and don’t think their chicken sandwich is a political statement. Some of us are like “Chick Fil A tastes like hate and fuck them on Sundays too.” I’m the latter type of American and Slav. 

All that is to say, Слава Україні.

Thanks, I understand why it is not correct and I understand the Chick Fil A argument. 

I can’t really get into specifics about my new job for security reasons (STANAG level of English), but even here I have gotten the same type of reaction. It still leaves me scratching my head. This could also be because a lot of students I have at the moment are Ukrainian and German citizens and there is second language interference from German.

I’m in full support of no article just to clear things up, from one American-Slav to another. 

[NewOrleans]

Dec 27, 2022 6:26:07 GMT -5 klingklang77 said:

Dec 26, 2022 10:52:03 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I assure you that your students don’t speak for all Ukrainians. The Ukrainian government has asked for the first of the prepositions to be used. The students may be from pro-Russian eastern Ukraine who have supported Russian occupation. Or they legitimately might not care about how language is inherently political, viewing the argument as a boring political abstraction that doesn’t affect their daily lives.  I get that detachment. Some Americans just like Chick Fil A and don’t think their chicken sandwich is a political statement. Some of us are like “Chick Fil A tastes like hate and fuck them on Sundays too.” I’m the latter type of American and Slav. 

All that is to say, Слава Україні.

Thanks, I understand why it is not correct and I understand the Chick Fil A argument. 

I can’t really get into specifics about my new job for security reasons (STANAG level of English), but even here I have gotten the same type of reaction. It still leaves me scratching my head. This could also be because a lot of students I have at the moment are Ukrainian and German citizens and there is second language interference from German.

I’m in full support of no article just to clear things up, from one American-Slav to another. 

I don’t know what STANAG means but it sounds important!!